Diving head in!

[JonathanR]

Hi Franklin

Try to prevent a thought appearing.

If I say 'Pink Elephant', is it possible to stop an image or thought from appearing?



Yes, but not all of the time I think of the pink elephant. Sometimes I just "hear" the word "pink elephant" BUT I don't couple it with the image of the Pink Elephant.

Thanks for answering. I can improve on my Pink Elephant question. The main thing, is:

Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing? I understand that meditation can calm thoughts to an extent but is it possible to stop thoughts showing up if they have this tendency to just appear?

Who or what would stop the thoughts from appearing?

WAIT A MINUTE!!!! there is not even that "I" that I am trying to hold unto!!! why? because that sky in the background that I mentioned is Pure Consciousnesses is only ONE sky!!! its not my sky and you have your sky and this guy has his sky and so on........Its only ONE sky and we are all connected and every single on of us brings in the context of our thoughts and we then are under the illusion that because "I" think my thoughts; that I am an "individual" totally separate from you and the other 6 billion humans.

Great! Yes! Very good.
'
Is it clear that the content of thought in which 'I' appears...creates the illusion of a separate self?

You say we 'bring in the content of our thoughts' (and we are then under the illusion). Yes, but from experience, is it quite true to say that these thoughts are something that 'we' 'bring in'? Take a look.

Does there seem to be any control over the content?

There can be a story in thought about 'I bring in the content of thoughts'. But does that 'I' even 'exist'?


Jon

[retro305]

Jon.....I am seeing this process as witnessing a woman giving birth. We are seeing the contractions getting closer to each other. I strongly feel that I am about to experience that there is no "I" :-)

Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing? I understand that meditation can calm thoughts to an extent but is it possible to stop thoughts showing up if they have this tendency to just appear?

NO. Its humanly impossible.

Who or what would stop the thoughts from appearing?

No one. There is no "stopping".

Is it clear that the content of thought in which 'I' appears...creates the illusion of a separate self?

Absolutely. This is very clear to me.

Yes, but from experience, is it quite true to say that these thoughts are something that 'we' 'bring in'? Take a look.

No doubt. This "I" that I know that is separate is the one who brings in all of my thoughts.

Does there seem to be any control over the content?

No. Again, to me the thoughts are like the clouds. I have no control of how many will pass by. A cloud (thought) can be large or small. It can be grey or have the purest white. It can carry water or not. I just observe them pass by. BEFORE I was not even aware of the colossal number of clouds (thought) that were passing by. The difference today is that I am aware of them. Since they originate from the false "I", I still know that they cannot be prevented from coming up.

There can be a story in thought about 'I bring in the content of thoughts'. But does that 'I' even 'exist'?

No. That I is an illusion. A persistent one but still an illusion.


I believe that I have arrived in a place where I know that this "I" that thinks all these thoughts and has no power over them is not me. There is really no "Franklin". And I believe that there is a real I and that this real I is only pure consciousness. Awareness aware of itself. This awareness doesn't have a name. Its just IS.

[JonathanR]

Franklin,

I am seeing this process as witnessing a woman giving birth. We are seeing the contractions getting closer to each other. I strongly feel that I am about to experience that there is no "I" :-)

Ha ha. But will it be 'you' that 'experiences it' ?

You have given some great answers today. Thank you. There will be some profit in looking a little more closely at this one:

Yes, but from experience, is it quite true to say that these thoughts are something that 'we' 'bring in'? Take a look.


No doubt. This "I" that I know that is separate is the one who brings in all of my thoughts.

You mean, like Santa? Bringing in all the presents from the North Pole? :-)

But seriously, isn't the 'I' its self a thought? How does that 'do' anything?

No. Again, to me the thoughts are like the clouds. I have no control of how many will pass by. A cloud (thought) can be large or small. It can be grey or have the purest white. It can carry water or not. I just observe them pass by. BEFORE I was not even aware of the colossal number of clouds (thought) that were passing by. The difference today is that I am aware of them. Since they originate from the false "I", I still know that they cannot be prevented from coming up.

It's good to notice all these thoughts. And they cannot be prevented from appearing.

But is it true to say that they originate from the false 'I'?

Do you find an 'I' 'thinking thoughts'? Or do thoughts just appear?

I believe that there is a real I and that this real I is only pure consciousness. Awareness aware of itself. This awareness doesn't have a name. Its just IS.

Excellent.

What makes things happen?


Jon

[retro305]

Ha ha. But will it be 'you' that 'experiences it' ?

Yikes......I don't know.....its seems that is the false me. The false me (to me) is the one that puts a label the moment that the experience arises. Cool!, this is bad, oh too painful, not again, cannot believe this etc etc.

But seriously, isn't the 'I' its self a thought? How does that 'do' anything?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CANNOT BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!! "I" IS A THOUGHT AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just dont know what to think anymore!! ITS SO TRUE!! :-)

But is it true to say that they originate from the false 'I'?

YES!! They do!!!! every single one of them!

Do you find an 'I' 'thinking thoughts'? Or do thoughts just appear?

They only appear. The illusion is that they originate from this "I"......but even the "I' is a thought.!

Excellent.

What makes things happen?

MIND does. The force behind all intelligence. Not intelligence as we refer to it but the intelligence that is behind a cut healing itself, a seed sprouting, a child being created in a women's womb.

[JonathanR]

Hi Franklin,

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CANNOT BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!! "I" IS A THOUGHT AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just dont know what to think anymore!! ITS SO TRUE!! :-)

HA HA HA! Yes...it is. :-) Ha ha. You're getting it.

But is it true to say that they originate from the false 'I'?


YES!! They do!!!! every single one of them!

except that that 'I is a thought too, as you went on to say. Do you see that it's an amalgam of ongoing thoughts, assumptions, like bits of software coding that have been in place, running the 'story of me' for years and years?

It's been going on for so long and everyone assumes that 'I have a self', and of course there IS the appearance of a self, as if an entity were truly 'there'.

They only appear. The illusion is that they originate from this "I"......but even the "I' is a thought.!

That's it!

MIND does. The force behind all intelligence. Not intelligence as we refer to it but the intelligence that is behind a cut healing itself, a seed sprouting, a child being created in a women's womb.

Ah, right. That is an interesting definition of mind. Yes, very nice.

So when people speak of 'decisions' and 'choices', it often seems that 'someone decides', 'someone chooses'.

How do you see 'decisions' and 'choices'? How do they happen without a 'self'?


Thanks,

Jon

[retro305]

So when people speak of 'decisions' and 'choices', it often seems that 'someone decides', 'someone chooses'.

How do you see 'decisions' and 'choices'? How do they happen without a 'self'?

They do originate from within the self that we believe that runs the show. Its all "logic".......the "persona" that I have assumed and now I wonder how this person that was named Franklin will continue to relate to people, places and things.

Can I give myself a different name? :-)

Jon, I am so grateful.....in my journey I have come across very very exceptional individuals and I have never been asked the questions that you have asked me. THANK YOU. On a personal note; I look forward to how your will stir this boat on your next reply and if I wish to apologize in advance because from this moment, I will not check on emails until this Sunday. Thanks again :)

[JonathanR]

Hi Franklin,

Thanks for your most recent reply. Actually it fits very well for me because I am unable to post to you until Monday.

Very pleased to be working with you :-)

Jon

[retro305]

Hi Jon! I trust this finds you well and that you had a wonderful weekend.

Simmering in all this I have a question for you.

Who are the two doing this work? They were at some point named Jon and Franklin.....but who is really doing this?

:-)

[JonathanR]

Hi Franklin,

Jon, I am so grateful.....in my journey I have come across very very exceptional individuals and I have never been asked the questions that you have asked me. THANK YOU.

You are more than welcome. I love your enthusiasm which feels very similar to the way it felt for me when I was guided :-)

I trust this finds you well and that you had a wonderful weekend.

Yes, an amazing weekend spent with Ilona and various others, thank you.

]They do originate from within the self that we believe that runs the show. Its all "logic".......the "persona" that I have assumed and now I wonder how this person that was named Franklin will continue to relate to people, places and things.

Was there a 'self', 'there', to begin with, or ever?

It may have been noticed recently that there never was a self but in all these years the persona has gone along as if there were one. Is there any reason why that persona should suddenly disappear?

Isn't it more likely that it will keep appearing, (like thoughts), but there will now be a lot more flexibility as to what is..or isn't... 'behind' it. ?

Who are the two doing this work? They were at some point named Jon and Franklin.....but who is really doing this?

Hee hee. Ha ha! Good question!

Maybe we seem like separate 'people', like separate fingers.... Hold up your hand and identify two separate fingers. But aren't these fingers are part of the same hand, not really 'separate' at all?

All the best,

Jon

[retro305]

Jon.....I have been crying for the last 3 days.....not without stopping (LOL) just every time I come back to the realization that this has been an illusion....that I am separate from others....that there is an "I".

I work from home and I have purposelessly have been going out to see people at the market, the mall, a restaurant just to rejoice on an Unity....a Oneness that I knew off.......but now I am experiencing.....I am choking as I am writing this. I don't do drugs.......I am on a HUGE natural high right now......the outside is the same......but my perception of people, places and things has dramatically shifted.

Further more I need to 1-thank you, thank Ilona, Elena and the rest of the LU Team and 2-I am personally building an Orphanage in the Country I am originally from. At this moment I don't have a clue how I will incorporate this in our curriculum but we must. We will be the first bilingual, spiritually based and driven Orphanage in the Caribbean (and based on this Truth) maybe the World; where we will not teach not only the usual Math and Science but also as a cornerstone; the Truth of Which we Are and now I know that it all starts knowing that there is no "I", that we are ONE.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

[JonathanR]

Franklin,

I am very moved by your post! How wonderful!

Everything you say resonates. It has been a tremendous pleasure to work with you.

I am on a HUGE natural high right now......the outside is the same......but my perception of people, places and things has dramatically shifted.

Fantastic. It may gradually seem more 'ordinary' as time goes on but once the illusion has been seen it just tends to be seen again, and again.

Please stick with me for a little while longer because although it's quite evident that 'seeing' has happened I'd like to be in a position to offer you to join one or two groups online that people who have seen through the illusion can find useful and supportive?

I need to ask you a few final questions and then ask other guides to take a look at our conversation. Sometimes the guides come back with further questions, if helpful, sometimes not. Would that be OK?


Jon

[retro305]

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!

I am ALL IN!!!

I would love more inquiry if the other guides feel is necessary. I would love for you to take me to the other online groups as well.

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!

[JonathanR]

OK Franklin,

Here are the first three of the six questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2)Please explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now as if to someone who had never heard of no self before?

3)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Regards,

Jon

[retro305]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there is not. There has never been. The illusion of the separateness has been a long and persistent one. That is why it feels so real.

2)Please explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now as if to someone who had never heard of no self before?

This illusion is manifested in each body hence the "illogical confirmation" that I end at the borders of my skin and you begin at the borders of yours. This whole process of working with you has throwing me into a deep and yummy pool. Now I am realizing that those times that I have felt this "bliss' while lets say; praying with other like minded beings, enjoying a great Church service or dancing at a great party; it has been because unconsciously my consciousness (no pun intended) has meshed with the collective and I then feel the exponential bliss of the peace that comes as the result of this connection; of feeling this oneness.

3)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

IN the last few days it has been easy to revert to the old believe that I am here and that you are there but the metaphor of learning that Santa does not exist totally applies to where I am right at this moment. Without realizing I could be in the supermarket asking a cold cut to the deli lady and doing it in a "trance" (I call that to any moment when I am awake but in cruise control) and out of the sudden I get sucked back in to the instant and I see her as another finger of the same hand, another branch of the same tree and I get really connected and it feels like a small high. Geez.....I feel a sense of connection that I have felt BUT didn't know why. The school of thought that was handed down to me was that we are all "brothers and sisters" and my new understanding shatters that in a million pieces.

You know what is happening to me lately? I am even seeing the people on TV like a part of me. I live in Washington DC and its not because I have been to the White House or Capitol Hill and its not because my HD TV makes all the images look SO real; I am even feeling a colossal sense of connectedness to President Trump and everyone I have been seeing lately as if........I have known them my whole life. Its like I could pick up the phone and call any of this dignitaries and then I know I cannot but something inside tells me I can :). What a beautiful conundrum! Even more with you. I don't know you yet I feel that you are me and I am you, that we are One. Jon.....I have been a student of Life for the past 15 years.....I just cannot believe where my perception will be a year from now; experiencing life this way one day at at time.

I was going to write "yours in service" right here. Maybe for now I should end it with "One in Service" :-)

[JonathanR]

Hi Franklin,

Thanks for your answers. Some great answers!

OK. Here are the remaining three questions:

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
c) What are you responsible for?
d) Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Looking froward to hearing from you,

Jon