Self-Control

[SwissKid]

Morning Chris

can you help me dispose of it?

Is that in response to the pain? I cannot tell you anything and wouldn't anyway. But we can look.

Are you in the body looking out, of the body as a whole or in certain part of the body?
What is our direct experience of the body? Is it the same as the idea we have about it? Do you see the whole or fragments that are collected together from memory to make a whole? And does that thought give us the impression of solidity, permanence and reality?
Are the fragments ever seen without an aspect of the world – e.g. I am writing this and I see my hands. As with the seeing exercise the total visual field – one seamless whole, made only of seeing. Is it thought that artificially divides? Is it as the TV screen, one seamless whole? From the point of view of the object – all items are separate, but what about from the point of view of the screen? Is anything separate or independent or is there just the screen?
Close your eyes and relax for a minute.
Then examine the body from inside.
Can you know, without memory and concepts, how big this body is? How far away the head is from toes? Is there a line, that separates inside from outside? Here from there?
Scan the body for tensions and look at them closer, what is happening? What are these sensations? What are these sensations happening to? Is there awareness of hand if focus goes on a foot?
Play with this and write what you notice.
Notice this, where focus goes, labelling, narrating story follows. Mind is describing what is being experienced after it has been experienced.
Now do the same exercise with eyes open. What is different? Is there a line between inside and outside? What is that separates here from there? Is there an edge to experience?
Hugs Sarah xxx

Hi Sarah,

My comment, “Can you help me dispose of it [my body].” was an unsuccessful attempt to cause laughter.

Bare with me while I sort through my current experience. Then I'll look at your questions.

“I” don’t see the body as separate from everything else, just as “I” don’t separate the tree from the rest of the landscape anymore. Everything now appears to exist as a whole. That said, “I” experience pain. “I” experience it in the vicinity called body, not in the vicinity called table or clock. The pain arises, exists and then disappears, and this happens often. I can’t find an “I”.

I believe this “I” is simply a conversational pronoun, not a self, But, there’s some confusion. So now I’ll answer your questions and take a good look.

I close my eyes. There is no self INSIDE any area of the body looking out. You will think I’m really nuts, but this morning, in DE, the body appears as an undefined area of space with a sort of blob shape and thin boundary lines that keep undulating, and my blob (my body) is attached to one side of all the other blobs that also have undulating boundary lines, and we’re all moving through space as one unit.

My IDEA of body is very different. It is roughly what I see in the mirror and is apparently built on memories. And, yes, that thought gives body solidity, permanence and makes it seem real. You are right. When I look at my hands and think about them, they are separate. When I don’t think about them, they are not separate from the whole picture in experience.

Okay, closing my eyes again. Contemplating inside body. Now there are no boundary lines. No sense of parts or where they are, or relative space between the parts, like head or feet.

Now scanning the body for tension—there is now a forehead with tension in it. And next there is neck and shoulders with tension there. I think of now apparent hands, then apparent feet, then hands again—focus doesn’t stick to one or the other—focus is bouncing around. And, I’m not aware of one when focusing on the other.

Eyes open. All is one whole experience again.

I THINK I GET IT! If clock and table exist, body exists too, in the same way. But all that manifests exist as one vast whole experience, not separate. FOCUSING, which can happen, causes thought/mind to happen. Mind causes separation. Mind creates a false self. Mind describes and defines an experience as real, solid, permanent. Mind can describe pain as real and owned by a “me”.

Sarah writes: Notice this, where focus goes, labelling, narrating story follows. Mind is describing what is being experienced after it has been experienced.

Example #1
When relaxation is experienced in my room, Sounds occur as part of that experience. Ticking clock happens. If focus is put on ticking clock, labelling and story follows because mInd describes the ticking clock experience.

Example #2
An action or event occurs like, e.g. body sitting in a chair. Focus is put on the body sitting in a chair. Mind provides a memory, and an alert, “Better look for pain when body sitting in a chair happens—remember pain occurred there before.” So, It’s no surprise when pain happens. And what follows is more focus, more thinking, more pain, more story, and round and round we go.

This exercise helps a whole bunch!

Thanks Sarah,

Chris

[Sarah7]

Hey Chris
Just want to stick with this a bit just to make sure.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
First, close the eyes and feel the sensations in the body.
Then open the eyes and look into the mirror, while still pay attention to the bodily sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations in the body and the sight in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is any?
While still paying attention to the bodily sensations move one of the hands and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (in the hand) and sight of movement in the mirror?
Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (in the hand) and sight of movement?
Or only thoughts suggest it?
Now, pay attention only to the sight in the mirror.
Does the sight by itself suggest in any way that what is seen is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the sight itself suggest in any way that what is seen is a body at all?
Or there are only colours and shapes?
Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the sight, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest it?
Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a body anywhere when all mental concepts and images are ignored, or there are only sensations?
Start to walk slowly.
Is there a body walking anywhere, or there are only sensations?

And a bit on this too please.

It’s no surprise when pain happens.

Is pain ‘yours’? What makes it yours? Is there an ‘I’ separate to the pain 'having' it.
What about the pain itself makes it more 'personal' than say a very loud noise or a very bright light?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SwissKid]

Hey Chris
Just want to stick with this a bit just to make sure.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
First, close the eyes and feel the sensations in the body.
Then open the eyes and look into the mirror, while still pay attention to the bodily sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations in the body and the sight in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is any?
While still paying attention to the bodily sensations move one of the hands and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (in the hand) and sight of movement in the mirror?
Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (in the hand) and sight of movement?
Or only thoughts suggest it?
Now, pay attention only to the sight in the mirror.
Does the sight by itself suggest in any way that what is seen is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the sight itself suggest in any way that what is seen is a body at all?
Or there are only colours and shapes?
Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the sight, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest it?
Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a body anywhere when all mental concepts and images are ignored, or there are only sensations?
Start to walk slowly.
Is there a body walking anywhere, or there are only sensations?

And a bit on this too please.

It’s no surprise when pain happens.

Is pain ‘yours’? What makes it yours? Is there an ‘I’ separate to the pain 'having' it.
What about the pain itself makes it more 'personal' than say a very loud noise or a very bright light?
Hugs Sarah xxx

Is there any connection between the felt sensations in the body and the sight in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is any?

This is not going well. I cannot see a sore throat when I look, nor a full stomach, nor cold hands when I look. If that is what you mean, then there is not a direct connection. But how does anyone see soreness in throat, fullness in stomach, or coldness in hands? These sensations can not be seen.

I think I know what your questions are getting at—I have a sort of feeling or intuition that there is NOT a connection and NOT a body, but there is not a true knowing or DE that this is true.

Does the sight by itself suggest in any way that what is seen is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? YES. It is MY BODY. I recognize it. I can’t NOT recognize it. When I don’t have to look at it, it’s easier to not own it.

Or there are only colours and shapes? NO it’s a body. It’s MY BODY.

Is there a body walking anywhere, or there are only sensations? It is MY BODY walking while having sensations, both at the same time even in what seems like DE.

I can’t tell if thoughts are taking over in this experiment. DE and THOUGHTS are all mixed up together. I feel confused.

Is pain ‘yours’? What makes it yours? Is there an ‘I’ separate to the pain 'having' it.
What about the pain itself makes it more 'personal' than say a very loud noise or a very bright light?

Yes. Pain seems like it is mine. With pain comes emotions AND the vicinity of pain is dead-on close or in body vicinity. I can’t tell if the pain and the I are one or two. Exactly! pain IS personal—bright lights and noise are not, because they are not related to body. They startle seeing or hearing but they don't hurt body.

Sorry Sarah. There seems to be a setback here.

Thank,

Chris

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris

I think I know what your questions are getting at—I have a sort of feeling or intuition that there is NOT a connection and NOT a body, but there is not a true knowing or DE that this is true.

No worries!

YES. It is MY BODY. I recognize it. I can’t NOT recognize it. When I don’t have to look at it, it’s easier to not own it.

Pick that ownership apart. What is I recognise made up of? Memory? Thought then?
Good you recognise the difference between seeing and not seeing. Visual sense seems to be very strong in how we define etc. Remember the seeing exercise? Try that whilst looking in the mirror.

Yes. Pain seems like it is mine. With pain comes emotions AND the vicinity of pain is dead-on close or in body vicinity. I can’t tell if the pain and the I are one or two. Exactly! pain IS personal—bright lights and noise are not, because they are not related to body. They startle seeing or hearing but they don't hurt body.

Ok, pick apart ownership of pain. What says ownership? Thought? Does sensation say ownership? Does emotion say it? Or is story overlaying sensation and emotion?

Sorry Sarah. There seems to be a setback here.

No setback here Chris. Just thoughts thinking you are or aren't doing something! Lol.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SwissKid]

Hi Chris

I think I know what your questions are getting at—I have a sort of feeling or intuition that there is NOT a connection and NOT a body, but there is not a true knowing or DE that this is true.

No worries!

YES. It is MY BODY. I recognize it. I can’t NOT recognize it. When I don’t have to look at it, it’s easier to not own it.

Pick that ownership apart. What is I recognize made up of? Memory? Thought then?
Good you recognize the difference between seeing and not seeing. Visual sense seems to be very strong in how we define etc. Remember the seeing exercise? Try that whilst looking in the mirror.

Yes. Pain seems like it is mine. With pain comes emotions AND the vicinity of pain is dead-on close or in body vicinity. I can’t tell if the pain and the I are one or two. Exactly! pain IS personal—bright lights and noise are not, because they are not related to body. They startle seeing or hearing but they don't hurt body.

Ok, pick apart ownership of pain. What says ownership? Thought? Does sensation say ownership? Does emotion say it? Or is story overlaying sensation and emotion?

Sorry Sarah. There seems to be a setback here.

No setback here Chris. Just thoughts thinking you are or aren't doing something! Lol.
Hugs Sarah xxx

Hi Sarah,

I’m sitting in front of a mirror, and trying to get a DE like I did with the tree in a landscape.

I’ve been sitting and looking for quite some time now. I am able to experience two different types of VIEW.

GLOBAL VIEW (1)
One that takes the whole picture in, with no labels, no separations. In this view, humming in the ears starts up, hearing of clock starts, and my DE is that ONLY seeing is happening, no “I”, and no separation between seer and what’s seen, no separation of body from other objects, no thinking.

LOCAL VIEWS (2)
Then there is the OTHER VIEW where I try to look at every object separately (locally) . . . I DID THIS LOOKING TWICE—one time before the global view experience, and one after the global view experience—both with a DIFFERENT RESULT—weird! The first time, everything was easily separated. There was a separate body, objects had clear borders, with labels, and it was unclear who was looking. Now oddly, the second time I look and try to separate objects, including body separation, the mind is still, not commenting. borders still there but fuzzy, like a photograph out of focus, and the DE is just looking. I’m guessing that between experience 1 and experience 2 there was some kind of realization, because view number two was different.

So now, to your questions . . .

Watching/focusing on body now (2nd view), no thoughts, borders fuzzy. Then recognition starts, “That’s me.” Body still fuzzy, and other objects not labeled. It’s not clear that memory is identifying a me—not sure why it’s a me yet other objects remain un-named. I’ve seen the other objects before—they should be a memory as well, right?


Okay, I’m picking apart PAIN.

Sarah writes: Ok, pick apart ownership of pain. What says ownership? Thought? Does sensation say ownership? Does emotion say it? Or is story overlaying sensation and emotion?

With the pain first comes strong emotions, not so much thought but emotions . . . fear, sadness, loss of control, helplessness, anguish, shame, but without specific memories. Thought comes in next with worry about being dependent on others, loss of control, being helpless and mistreated. Some stories about me and others follow with lots of justifications (thoughts) for the worry.

Sarah, I want to include here something very strange that happened to me a few months ago. It was so odd to me at the time that I wrote it down. Maybe it has some relevance now. Here is exactly what I wrote . . .

During a physical therapy session, which had in the past involved only a little discomfort, suddenly turned strange. The pain became incredibly unbearable in my leg and in my mind. An assistant had to hold me up and escort me out of the clinic. Oddly, the pain disappeared within an hour like it had never happened.

I hope I've answered your questions.

Thanks Sarah,

Chris

[Sarah7]

Hey Chris

With the pain first comes strong emotions, not so much thought but emotions . . . fear, sadness, loss of control, helplessness, anguish, shame, but without specific memories. Thought comes in next with worry about being dependent on others, loss of control, being helpless and mistreated. Some stories about me and others follow with lots of justifications (thoughts) for the worry.

1. Close the eyes and hold up one hand. Pay attention only to the felt sensation ‘of the hand’.
2. Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3. While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.
Repeat 1 to 3 as many times as needed and investigate…

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight, meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as ‘hand’) or only thought and mental constructs link them?

With closed eyes, where is the sensation in relation to the body, inside, outside? Can a body be felt at all?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SwissKid]

Hey Chris

With the pain first comes strong emotions, not so much thought but emotions . . . fear, sadness, loss of control, helplessness, anguish, shame, but without specific memories. Thought comes in next with worry about being dependent on others, loss of control, being helpless and mistreated. Some stories about me and others follow with lots of justifications (thoughts) for the worry.

1. Close the eyes and hold up one hand. Pay attention only to the felt sensation ‘of the hand’.
2. Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3. While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.
Repeat 1 to 3 as many times as needed and investigate…

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight, meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as ‘hand’) or only thought and mental constructs link them?

With closed eyes, where is the sensation in relation to the body, inside, outside? Can a body be felt at all?
Hugs Sarah xxx

Sarah,

It took about 15 attempts, then I started to see that the sensations DO NOT come from seeing hands--no link between seeing and sensation. Maybe I should practice this exercise daily for awhile to get it to sink in, because it doesn’t seem like a certain/every time clear seeing.

Unlike other exercises we’ve done, here thoughts are not so obvious. I’m not noticing them—I’m only assuming they are there because they keep me from seeing clearly—sneaky thoughts.

With closed eyes, where is the sensation in relation to the body, inside, outside? Can a body be felt at all?

When I try hard and stop thoughts, bodily sensations are EVERYWHERE AND NOWHERE as if there were no body. When I don’t try to stop thoughts, and thoughts are apparently there, bodily sensations are IN the body.

Thanks Sarah,

Chris

[Sarah7]

Hey Chris

It took about 15 attempts, then I started to see that the sensations DO NOT come from seeing hands--no link between seeing and sensation. Maybe I should practice this exercise daily for awhile to get it to sink in, because it doesn’t seem like a certain/every time clear seeing.

Indeed. Notice and look. Get curious. :)

Unlike other exercises we’ve done, here thoughts are not so obvious. I’m not noticing them—I’m only assuming they are there because they keep me from seeing clearly—sneaky thoughts.

Another thought? Lol. Are they the enemy? Are they to be stopped or got rid of?

When I try hard and stop thoughts, bodily sensations are EVERYWHERE AND NOWHERE as if there were no body. When I don’t try to stop thoughts, and thoughts are apparently there, bodily sensations are IN the body.

Ok so what if thought was just like another sensation passing? Or like an emotion flowing through? What hangs onto them as if they are important?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SwissKid]

Hey Chris

It took about 15 attempts, then I started to see that the sensations DO NOT come from seeing hands--no link between seeing and sensation. Maybe I should practice this exercise daily for awhile to get it to sink in, because it doesn’t seem like a certain/every time clear seeing.

Indeed. Notice and look. Get curious. :)

Unlike other exercises we’ve done, here thoughts are not so obvious. I’m not noticing them—I’m only assuming they are there because they keep me from seeing clearly—sneaky thoughts.

Another thought? Lol. Are they the enemy? Are they to be stopped or got rid of?

When I try hard and stop thoughts, bodily sensations are EVERYWHERE AND NOWHERE as if there were no body. When I don’t try to stop thoughts, and thoughts are apparently there, bodily sensations are IN the body.

Ok so what if thought was just like another sensation passing? Or like an emotion flowing through? What hangs onto them as if they are important?
Hugs Sarah xxx

Hi Sarah,

Hmmm . . . Thoughts. Thoughts just happen. Thoughts are like seeing or hearing, just another part of the human system. Thoughts insist that there is an “I”. There is no “I”. Therefore thoughts are liars. Lying is not good. One has to see through lies to get to the truth, but sometimes I can’t tell what is a lie and what is the truth. Thoughts tell me there is a self and there is a body. Thoughts pretend that they are telling the truth when they are lying. I’m not sure if seeing lies or if hearing lies. Thoughts may not be an enemy, but they are liars. They can not be stopped unless this entity stops and is dead, so I have to learn to see the lies in order to see clearly.

Right! Duh! I get it! Who are thoughts lying to? “I” is a thought! A THOUGHT LYING TO ANOTHER THOUGHT. How absurd is that? LOL.

Let’s try this again . . .

Thoughts happen. "I" thoughts happen. Seeing and hearing happens. Everything just happens. Things don’t happen to an "I" because things don’t happen to a thought!?!

Who are thoughts insisting to?
Who says thoughts are liars?
Who says lying is not good?
Who can’t tell what is true and what is not?
Thoughts tell who that there is a self and a body?
Who do thoughts pretend to?
Who’s not sure if seeing and hearing lie?
Who says thoughts can not be stopped unless the entity stops?
Who has to see through the lies in order to be clear?

Sarah asks: Ok so what if thought was just like another sensation passing? Or like an emotion flowing through? What hangs onto them as if they are important?

Thought IS just like another sensation passing through. A thought called “I” was hanging on to thoughts thinking they were important.

Good feeling happening!

Thanks Sarah,

Chris

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ
This may be of use?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Sarah7]

Morning Chris
There is another post above about the quote function which I thought might of been of use!

One has to see through lies to get to the truth, but sometimes I can’t tell what is a lie and what is the truth. Thoughts tell me there is a self and there is a body. Thoughts pretend that they are telling the truth when they are lying. I’m not sure if seeing lies or if hearing lies. Thoughts may not be an enemy, but they are liars. They can not be stopped unless this entity stops and is dead, so I have to learn to see the lies in order to see clearly.

So what you do is look. When a thought says blah blah, you look, question and verify.
What wants to stop thought? Another thought?

Right! Duh! I get it! Who are thoughts lying to? “I” is a thought! A THOUGHT LYING TO ANOTHER THOUGHT. How absurd is that? LOL.

Indeed! But again with 'lying is bad' ......look. Is it? Does a thought lie? Or is that another story?

Thoughts happen. "I" thoughts happen. Seeing and hearing happens. Everything just happens. Things don’t happen to an "I" because things don’t happen to a thought!?!

YES!

Who are thoughts insisting to?
Who says thoughts are liars?
Who says lying is not good?
Who can’t tell what is true and what is not?
Thoughts tell who that there is a self and a body?
Who do thoughts pretend to?
Who’s not sure if seeing and hearing lie?
Who says thoughts can not be stopped unless the entity stops?
Who has to see through the lies in order to be clear?

Excellent questions!

Thought IS just like another sensation passing through. A thought called “I” was hanging on to thoughts thinking they were important. Good feeling happening!

How do you feel now?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SwissKid]

Hi Sarah,

How do you feel now?

I'm not sure. Three words come to mind: Confusion, Separation, Body

I've been spending time having thoughts, analyzing them, and translating them. I am either going crazy, intellectualizing, or having clarity, but some questions exist within my analysis.

I can not speak without using the word "I" in conversation.
WHO IS THE SELF THAT CAN NOT SPEAK WITHOUT USING THE WORD I?
(This is confusing me.)

What wants to stop thought?

ME having a sensation of pain, BUT then there is no ME. So I guess there is nobody who either has pain or wants to stop thought. (confusing)

If pain just happens . . . WHY on earth does it have to happen? Does the clock feel pain and the table feel pain? Does everybody or nobody feel pain? (confusing)

Indeed! But again with 'lying is bad' ......look. Is it? Does a thought lie? Or is that another story?

Is thought different than story. Or, are they the same thing?

People say to me, “You ARE NOT fat, ugly, stupid, old, unlovable.” Story tells me, “You ARE fat, ugly, old, stupid, unlovable.” Somebody’s lying! Or, is nobody lying! OR, IS THIS ALL AN ILLUSION.

There are no people EVERY ONE IS AN ILLUSION
There is no self AN ILLUSION
There is no story A THOUGHT/AN ILLUSION
There is no lying or not no lying WORDS—AN ILLUSION
There is no fat, ugly, stupid, old, unlovable WORDS/LABELS/THOUGHTS—AN ILLUSION

Sarah, am I getting clear here or just intellectualizing?

Another word comes to mind . . . UNSTEADY about where I am right now, but wanting to understand my thoughts, get clear and stay clear. Is that even possible?

And, when I look ( as in see with eyes), some of the time I see separation, but if I concentrate for a second, I can see all is a whole thing again. Shouldn't I always see the whole thing without having to concentrate? (confusing)

Thanks Sarah,

Chris

[Sarah7]

Hey Chris

I've been spending time having thoughts, analyzing them, and translating them. I am either going crazy, intellectualising, or having clarity, but some questions exist within my analysis.

What can a thought know outside of itself?

I can not speak without using the word "I" in conversation. WHO IS THE SELF THAT CAN NOT SPEAK WITHOUT USING THE WORD I? (This is confusing me.)

Where is the confusion? Is it outside of thought? Don't jump to an answer here, look. Is there confusion without thought?

ME having a sensation of pain, BUT then there is no ME. So I guess there is nobody who either has pain or wants to stop thought. (confusing)

It is natural to move away from pain. But look for the ownership of pain. Where is this I who has pain? Or is it like everything else just passing through? Is it solid? Is it constant? Or does it change and fluctuate?

If pain just happens . . . WHY on earth does it have to happen? Does the clock feel pain and the table feel pain? Does everybody or nobody feel pain? (confusing)

Is this thought story?

Is thought different than story. Or, are they the same thing?

Is thought content real?

There are no people EVERY ONE IS AN ILLUSION
There is no self AN ILLUSION
There is no story A THOUGHT/AN ILLUSION
There is no lying or not no lying WORDS—AN ILLUSION
There is no fat, ugly, stupid, old, unlovable WORDS/LABELS/THOUGHTS—AN ILLUSION

Are we clear here?

Sarah, am I getting clear here or just intellectualizing? Another word comes to mind . . . UNSTEADY about where I am right now, but wanting to understand my thoughts, get clear and stay clear. Is that even possible?

Unsteady is a fine place to be! What wants stability? So it can plan and forward think and design and predict and control.......... What wants this?
And what also wants what's over there in that green field coz it looks better than here, so further, go further, seek more........What?

And, when I look ( as in see with eyes), some of the time I see separation, but if I concentrate for a second, I can see all is a whole thing again. Shouldn't I always see the whole thing without having to concentrate? (confusing)

Expectation?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[SwissKid]

Sarah,

Thank you so much for your help, and thank you to LU for what it is doing. What a priceless important resource this is.

What can a thought know outside of itself?

Nothing.

Where is the confusion? Is it outside of thought? Don't jump to an answer here, look. Is there confusion without thought?

Confusion comes out of thought.

It is natural to move away from pain. But look for the ownership of pain. Where is this I who has pain? Or is it like everything else just passing through? Is it solid? Is it constant? Or does it change and fluctuate?

Pain happens. There is no I to own anything. The I can not be in the body or anywhere at all because there is no I. Pain arrives from somewhere. It is not a solid or constant thing. It does change and fluctuate. It comes and goes. BUT, it still feels like it's in the body--sorry there still seems to be a body.

Is this thought story?

There is a sensation called pain--it's real. It's not felt over there by the clock or over there by the table, or is it--I don't know--clock never complains. It's felt here in the body. It's not felt anywhere else but here in the body.

Is thought content real?

Thoughts are real. Content is not. Is content another word for story?

Unsteady is a fine place to be! What wants stability? So it can plan and forward think and design and predict and control.......... What wants this?
And what also wants what's over there in that green field coz it looks better than here, so further, go further, seek more........What?

You are right. The nonexistent I wants stability, thinks about the past and future, predicts and controls, and wants greener grass.

So, here's some looking (and laughing) for today . . .

I’m staring at my keyboard. NOPE! NO I.
I’m trying to think of something/anything. NOPE! NO I TRYING OR THINKING.
I’m seeing, hearing, listening, waiting, focusing. NOPE! NO I DOING.
No thoughts (pause).
My coffee is cold. I need to make some more. A THOUGHT ABOUT ME. I THE DOER—NOPE!
Okay then, how do I get more coffee? NO I TO GET ANYTHING.
So, I just wait, and coffee will come to me? NO I WAITING. COFFE HAS NO ONE TO COME TO.
What now? I’m staring at keyboard again. NOPE! NO I STARING.
I’m reading what I wrote. NOPE! NO I READING OR WRITING.
So, I’m not even here? BINGO!!!
If that’s true, then who’s typing now? VERY GOOD QUESTION! NOT YOU.
Nobody? WHO’S ASKING? WHO WILL ANSWER THIS QUESTION?

Where is my body exactly. WHO WANTS TO KNOW?
I do. NOPE! NO I
Well, somebody wants to know! WHO SAYS?
[Suddenly this feels like two entities talking to each other] JUST A THOUGHT.
Is this nuts? A THOUGHT. THOUGHTS CAN’T BE NUTS OR ANYTHING ELSE.
So I’m not supposed to think? THOUGHTS ARE OKAY—YOU’RE NOT—YOU DON’T EXIST.
What’s left for me to do then? GET LOST! THERE’S NO YOU TO DO ANYTHING ANYWAY.
Where will I go? (pause) SILLY GIRL! YOU WERE NEVER HERE.

Sarah, I'm starting to believe there is no body, but there is still something there I need to sort out.

Thanks Sarah,

Chris

[Sarah7]

Hay Chris
Im going to pm you too - as well as this post ok.

Confusion comes out of thought.

Does it exist outside of thought?

BUT, it still feels like it's in the body--sorry there still seems to be a body.

But is it seen that there is no I that has pain?
Body - pick that apart - Look at what is experienced here - images, memory, fragments of body included with whatever else is seen, lots of thought, sensations..... etc.
Identification with the body - does that also just happen? Do you choose when to and when not to identify?

It's felt here in the body. It's not felt anywhere else but here in the body.

Are you still looking with the exercises we have been through?

Thoughts are real. Content is not. Is content another word for story?

Well, is the content actually real or a fabrication created by thought? Again - what can thought know outside of itself? Perception?

I'm starting to believe there is no body, but there is still something there I need to sort out.

A thought wanting to replace with another? LOL. :)

Think of a radio - does the radio know what song will come next? Does it mind what song plays? So one song is a sad one, the next a funny one, next a hard core one..... etc. Sad song could be pain, funny one could be the body, hard core could be thoughts...... etc.
If not a radio then a mirror with reflections passing over the surface. Does the mirror mind? Does it prefer? Does it like or not like? Is it bothered?
Hugs Sarah xxx