I am looking for all the help I can to be self-realized.

[Petrus]

Hi Daniel,

Ok, on an honest "look" I still can't see how to get rid of the idea of "I" or me to communicate.

You dont have to get rid of that.
Why do you think you should?
And who is thinking that?

And I don't know how can I see something that doesn't exist.

You cant

I understand that there's no self, but I don't "see" it. In my experience there's no one, but I feel like is intellectual.

That is very honest. Very good!

Ok, from my experience there's a stream of thoughts that the mind capture and try to form a coherent idea of identification, like this is "me" , "I am that", etc... The feelings of the body are actually a collection of sensations that the mind interpret like happening to someone or something that exists. Because the mind can make a thought that appears coherent saying "I exist", that doesn't mean it does.

It seems you made the mind here into a separate entity that has control. "the mind capture thoughts", "the mind try to form a coherent idea", "mind interpret", "mind can make a thought".
Is there really such a center of control?

but sometimes I (the idea of an ego) gets "captured" by the stories .
That's why I have moments where I see there's no self, and other moments I still see that there's no self, but I get caught in the thoughts.

Getting caught in thoughts can be an old habit that will faint.
As long as you can see, it only looks like if there is an I caught in thoughts, it is ok, dont you agree?

But my confusion comes because I feel identification with reality, I feel there's a self that is the whole reality. The big I AM that can be perceived too. Consciousness is beginning to perceive itself, that's what I feel,

That (feeling identification) is an experience that comes and goes. Just let it be.

but maybe I am wrong.

knock knock, who is there to be wrong?

I was trying to do things without thinking

Leave the trying be. There is no I to do such a thing.
What is this love for being without thoughts? Thoughts come and go. Nothing wrong with that.

but I feel like there's fear

What "I" feels that? Is there really an I feeling fear?
Just let the fear be!

of making something wrong.

If there would be someone to make things wrong, it would be possible.
But the key message is: there is no-one.

Warmest regards, Peter

[abrakamowse]

Hi Daniel,

Hi Peter,

Ok, on an honest "look" I still can't see how to get rid of the idea of "I" or me to communicate.

You dont have to get rid of that.
Why do you think you should?

Because it seems that I don't understand that "I" it's just a concept?
(I know I am talking from the ego-rol perspective :-)

And who is thinking that?

Obviously, nobody. It's just thoughts being perceived.

And I don't know how can I see something that doesn't exist.

You cant

Ok, so... nothing is seen, that's good.

I understand that there's no self, but I don't "see" it. In my experience there's no one, but I feel like is intellectual.

That is very honest. Very good!

Ok... and right now there's a perception of thoughts but I am not feeling identified with them. I let them be, pass and go... they are not so strong as before, the perception and the identification.
:-)

Ok, from my experience there's a stream of thoughts that the mind capture and try to form a coherent idea of identification, like this is "me" , "I am that", etc... The feelings of the body are actually a collection of sensations that the mind interpret like happening to someone or something that exists. Because the mind can make a thought that appears coherent saying "I exist", that doesn't mean it does.

It seems you made the mind here into a separate entity that has control. "the mind capture thoughts", "the mind try to form a coherent idea", "mind interpret", "mind can make a thought".
Is there really such a center of control?

No, there's not a center. That was just another thought. The mind doesn't exist either, in my experience. I just perceive thoughts arising and dissapearing, but no identification.

but sometimes I (the idea of an ego) gets "captured" by the stories .
That's why I have moments where I see there's no self, and other moments I still see that there's no self, but I get caught in the thoughts.

Getting caught in thoughts can be an old habit that will faint.

Yes Peter, you are right. It's happening slowly, thoughts are not so distracting lately.

As long as you can see, it only looks like if there is an I caught in thoughts, it is ok, dont you agree?

Yes, I agree.
:-)

But my confusion comes because I feel identification with reality, I feel there's a self that is the whole reality. The big I AM that can be perceived too. Consciousness is beginning to perceive itself, that's what I feel,

That (feeling identification) is an experience that comes and goes. Just let it be.

Cool, they are not permanent. Right.

but maybe I am wrong.

knock knock, who is there to be wrong?

Lol, yeah. "I" know. No one is there... there's a feeling of joy about knowing that. It's there, but no attachment to it, just let them be and vanish.
:-)

I was trying to do things without thinking

Leave the trying be. There is no I to do such a thing.

Ok, not trying. Just follow the flow and be.

What is this love for being without thoughts? Thoughts come and go. Nothing wrong with that.

Right.

but I feel like there's fear

What "I" feels that? Is there really an I feeling fear?
Just let the fear be!

Fear is just a sensation, you are right.

of making something wrong.

If there would be someone to make things wrong, it would be possible.
But the key message is: there is no-one.

True!

Warmest regards, Peter

Thanks again Peter!!!
Joy arising.
:-)

[Petrus]

Hi Daniel,

And I don't know how can I see something that doesn't exist.

You cant

Ok, so... nothing is seen, that's good.

Dont ever rely on what others (me for example) tell you. Look for yourself!

Sometimes you THINK you see something. Like this "I" everybody is talking about.
It never has been seen, but everyone thinks, assumes, it exists.

(I know I am talking from the ego-rol perspective :-)

What is the use of talking from that perspective if you know it is a very relative perspective?
This conversation is about losing all perspectives.

Because it seems that I don't understand that "I" it's just a concept

What are your expectations about what will happen after crashing the Gate?

Warm regards, Petrus

[abrakamowse]

Hi Daniel,

Hello!

Dont ever rely on what others (me for example) tell you. Look for yourself!

Ok

Sometimes you THINK you see something. Like this "I" everybody is talking about.
It never has been seen, but everyone thinks, assumes, it exists.

Some insights, there was noticing today while coming from work that nothing was being done, people was entering the bus, the driver driving, but it just happened. The talk was done automatically, the stories were just like sounds, like natural rhythm of nature. Nothing special.

What is the use of talking from that perspective if you know it is a very relative perspective?
This conversation is about losing all perspectives.

True!

What are your expectations about what will happen after crashing the Gate?

I try not to have expectations. But I think the mind chatter will slow, I will be more with the flow of life, not so much fighting against it. A change of perspective to let the emotions go. And Be more mindful.

Warm regards, Petrus

Regards Peter!!!

[Petrus]

Hi Daniel,

I try not to have expectations.

If there is no I, how you can accomplish this?
Is it really possible to try such a thing?

But I think the mind chatter will slow

If the mind chatter will not slow down, is that a sign you still are not enlightened?

I will be more with the flow of life

Is it possible to be out of the flow?


More questions:

Is there still searching over there?

If there is choosing, is there an entity there who does the choosing?

What can be perceived with the senses that is You?

Is there a self to become enlightened?
Are you in any kind of a competition with other people that are trying that?



Warm regards, Petrus

[abrakamowse]

Hi Daniel,

Peter, hi

If there is no I, how you can accomplish this?
Is it really possible to try such a thing?

No, is not possible. It was just a thought. Everything are thoughts in fact.

If the mind chatter will not slow down, is that a sign you still are not enlightened?

No, it isn't.

Is it possible to be out of the flow?

No, it's not possible. Just thoughts appearing with that "content" or idea.


More questions:

Is there still searching over there?

There's not I to be search and there's no searcher or seeker.


If there is choosing, is there an entity there who does the choosing?

No entity, just things happening

What can be perceived with the senses that is You?

Nothing is me, I can't perceive anything that is me with my senses.

Is there a self to become enlightened?
Are you in any kind of a competition with other people that are trying that?

No, there's no self to become enlightened.

And there's no competition, there's other online friends that are awakened but there's no competition between us.
Right now there's a sense of calm and mindfulness being perceived.

Warm regards, Petrus

Thanks Peter!!!!

[Petrus]

Hi Daniel,

What is the "I" ?

Warm regards, Petrus

[abrakamowse]

Hi Daniel,

What is the "I" ?

Warm regards, Petrus

It's a thought, a construct. It's a wrong notion that we learn from our parents, relatives and our environment but it's not true.
It's an illusion.

Regards Peter!!!

[Petrus]

Hi Daniel,

How thoughts arise?

When was the shift and how did that shift happened in your direct experience of everday living. What changed?

Warm regards, Petrus

[abrakamowse]

Hi Daniel,

Hi Peter,

How thoughts arise?

Good question, it seems that it appear from nothingness or they are created by our brains in someway but they are not who we are.

When was the shift and how did that shift happened in your direct experience of everday living. What changed?

It happened when I came to the realization that there's like several elements separated, like a body, a brain, a mind, thoughts, feelings that make a construct, and idea that all those together are "us" when in fact that doesn't exist, there's nothing. It's just reality unfolding doing whatever it does without a self.

There's no a thing managing or driving events or anything, it's just as simple as that. I see nothing.
:-)

Warm regards, Petrus

Regards for you to Peter, and thanks again for your help!!!
:-)

[Petrus]

Hi Daniel,

it seems that thoughts appear from nothingness

Yes, quite right, they just appear and then disappear.

or they are created by our brains in someway but they are not who we are.

This is what thinking likes to add, his favourite function: guessing and subtitling.
Why you add this line? It is not coming from direct experience. Do you agree?

I see nothing.

What do you mean by that?


I noticed I never asked you my set of questions about the body.
I get the feeling you dont mind all the questions, so we just go on haha, ok?
It is an exercise, sort of:

With the eyes closed, sitting still, notice the other sensations: hearing, smelling, tasting, touching. With only the input from those four senses, and without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or a volume?
Is there a boundary between the body and the ground?
Can you feel where the body ends?

Do you have control over this body?
Can you locate a mind?

Can you feel your ears?
Does the body hear? Or is there hearing?

In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there an inside or outside?
What does the body consist of in direct experience?
Are you this body?

Warm regards, Petrus

[abrakamowse]

Hi Daniel,

This is what thinking likes to add, his favourite function: guessing and subtitling.
Why you add this line? It is not coming from direct experience. Do you agree?

You are right, it was just thoughts not experience.
:-P

What do you mean by that?

I meant that I don't see anything that can be called "I" or "self", I can't find it. There's nothing that can be called self.

I noticed I never asked you my set of questions about the body.
I get the feeling you dont mind all the questions, so we just go on haha, ok?

Your questions are really helpful, I like them.
:-)

It is an exercise, sort of:

With the eyes closed, sitting still, notice the other sensations: hearing, smelling, tasting, touching. With only the input from those four senses, and without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No

Does the body have a weight or a volume?

No, there's only sensations.

Is there a boundary between the body and the ground?

No, there's no boundaries. There's a sensation and a thought make it appear like separated, but it's just another sensation.

Can you feel where the body ends?

No, I can't...

Do you have control over this body?

No, the body just does what is supposed to do. The thought appears trying to "own" the action, but it's just a thought. Not true.

Can you locate a mind?

No, there's no location for a mind.

Can you feel your ears?

No, again... there's a sensation and there's a thought thinking this is an ear but it's just a thought.
:-)

Does the body hear? Or is there hearing?

There's just hearing.

In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No shape or form. There's just sensations.

Is there an inside or outside?

No, there isn't.

Code: Select all

[color=#0000BF] What does the body consist of in direct experience?[/color]

There's no body at all.
:-)

Are you this body?

No I am not this body.

Warm regards, Petrus

Thanks again Peter!!!

[Petrus]

Hi Daniel,

A couple of these questions are asked already.
But I like to ask them as a set of questions now.

Where do thoughts come from?
Where are they going?
Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?
Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?
Could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?

Is there an 'I' that controls thoughts?
Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
Can you choose what to think?
Can you choose what not to think?
Is it the brain that is thinking the thoughts?

Do you think thoughts or do thoughts think you?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Is it possible to prevent the thought "I" from appearing?

Warm regards, Petrus

[abrakamowse]

Hi Daniel,

Hello Peter,

A couple of these questions are asked already.
But I like to ask them as a set of questions now.

Ok

Where do thoughts come from?

From nothingness, no place. They don't come, they were there all the time.

Where are they going?

They don't go anywhere.

Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?

No, "I" can't.

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?

No, there's no "I" who thinks.

Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?

No, it can't be found. Everything is just thoughts.

Could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?

Yes, it's just a thought, it doesn't exist.

Is there an 'I' that controls thoughts?

No, there is not.

Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

No, that's not possible.

Can you choose what to think?

No

Can you choose what not to think?

No

Is it the brain that is thinking the thoughts?

No

Do you think thoughts or do thoughts think you?

Thoughts think "me".

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No, it's not possible.

Is it possible to prevent the thought "I" from appearing?

No, it's not possible.

Warm regards, Petrus

Thanks Peter, same to you.

[Petrus]

Hi Daniel,

Did you look up all the right answers haha?

Thoughts don't come, they were there all the time.

Is this really your experience?

Do you feel relief now it is clear this "seperate I" does not exist after all?

Do you belief in Santa? (I am just curious)

Is the search over now?
And is it well done, medium or rare?

Warm Regards, Petrus