The Gate

Hi Nina,

Watch thought for a couple of minutes ... like "clouds in the sky" or a "river flowing by"
Then start looking for a thinker.
Does thinking have a sensation?

Thinking does not have a real sensation. Sometimes there are imaginary sensations that arise as thoughts.

Where does thinking start and thought end?

Thinking is a storytelling process and thought is an actual experience.

The description of this invisible person an "aliveness" is interesting.
Actual experience of sensation is actual experience of life happening.
Where does aliveness stop and sensation begin?

Sensation is an actual experience and aliveness is a thought story comprised of imaginary sensations.

Where does the "invisible person" end and sensation begin?

The invisible person is a thought story and sensation is is an actual experience.

What is a "concept" in actual experience?
Is it a thought story?
Or what is it?

A concept, such as "freedom" or "peace", is a thought story.

Yes, all that there has ever been is sensation, smell, sound, taste and colour overlaid with thought.
Is this clear?

This is clear from actual experience.

Where does sensation stop and the "invisible person begin"?

Sensation is an actual experience and "invisible person" is a thought story.

Where does smell stop and the smeller begin?

Smell is an actual experience and the smeller is a thought story.

Where does the sound stop and the listener begin?

Sound is an actual experience and the listener is a thought story.

Where does the colour stop and the perceiver begin?

Color is an actual experience and the perceiver is a thought story.

Where does the thought stop and the thinker begin?

Thought is an actual experience and the thinker is a thought story.

Best regards,
John

Hi John,


Thanks for the responses! They all seem very clear.

Have a look at this now:

There is a general assumption that there is a linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the now is moving along the line of time?

How fast the present moment is actually moving?

How long does the now last?

Where does it start and where does it end?

When does the now exactly become the 'past'?

What is the past in the actual experience?

Please look for the answers many-many times (!!!) before replying.



Very best wishes

Nina
xxx

Hi Nina,

There is a general assumption that there is a linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the now is moving along the line of time?

There is no actual experience of the now moving along the line of time.

How fast the present moment is actually moving?

The present moment is always here and isn't moving at all. It seems that actual experiences are continuously unfolding in the present moment.

How long does the now last?

The now is beyond time.

Where does it start and where does it end?

The now has no beginning or end.

When does the now exactly become the 'past'?

The now does not become the past.

What is the past in the actual experience?

The past is a thought in actual experience.

Best regards,
John

Hi John!

Really clear on time!

Have a go with memory:

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened.
That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

What is memory exactly? (from Actual Experience)

What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

Please spend lot of time (!!!!) with EACH question… Look very carefully… Look at what actually going on and not what thoughts ..... not what thoughts say .... but what actually is!


Very best wishes

Nina

Hi Nina,

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened.
That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

What is memory exactly? (from Actual Experience)

Memory is a thought story.

What is the memory ‘made of’?

Thoughts.

WHEN does the memory appear?

When thoughts spin into a story about something that happened before.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

A memory thought has the added thought that "this happened before".

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

It isn't really known in actual experience, but there is a thought that it has happened. It's just a belief.

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

A thought that something will or could happen.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

When thoughts spin into a story about what will or could happen.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

A future thought has the added thought that "this will or could happen".

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

It isn't really known in actual experience, but there's just a thought that it will or could happen.

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

Thoughts about the past have the added thought that they have already happened. Thoughts about the future have the added thought that they will or could happen.

If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

It isn't known from actual experience. It is believed to be true based on the content of the thought story.

Best regards,
John

Hi John,

Memory seems crystal clear! :o)

This is from 15th May:

So the observation is that there is nothing really to call "I" or "self." Actually there is nothing (or no thing) at all. But that was just an experience, and the realization is sort of "after the fact." And there's a sense of someone who had that experience, so the realization isn't functioning in the present.

Is there still a sense of "someone"? A sense of a "me" or an "I"?
If there is, what happens when that "sense" is looked at?

Has there ever been a separate self? Was there a separate self that had the experience of "nothing to call "I" or "self"" all those years ago?

What is the illusion of the separate self? How did it start?

Is there anything controlling or deciding anything?

Very best from

Nina
xxx

Hi Nina,

This is from 15th May:

So the observation is that there is nothing really to call "I" or "self." Actually there is nothing (or no thing) at all. But that was just an experience, and the realization is sort of "after the fact." And there's a sense of someone who had that experience, so the realization isn't functioning in the present.

Is there still a sense of "someone"? A sense of a "me" or an "I"?

In actual experience, there isn't a sense of a separate self. The sense of a separate "me" is thought.

If there is, what happens when that "sense" is looked at?

When the "I" thought is looked at it disappears into looking.

Has there ever been a separate self?

No, just thoughts about "I" or "me".

Was there a separate self that had the experience of "nothing to call "I" or "self"" all those years ago?

No there was just looking, then the thought of a "looker" or "I" arose.

What is the illusion of the separate self?

Thought

How did it start?

With the thought of the "experiencer", the one who has experiences.

Is there anything controlling or deciding anything?

In actual experience, there is nothing controlling or deciding anything. There is just life unfolding in the present moment. The thought of a "controller" or "decider" is an illusion that disappears with looking.

Best regards,
John

Hi John,

It has been a very great pleasure to be your guide! Thanks for being so committed to this conversation. There are plenty of opportunities for further exploration post-gate, but for now it seems that our dialogue is drawing to a close.

Here are the final questions. Please take as much time as is needed to answer them!

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Very best wishes!

Nina

xxxx

Hi Nina,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

In actual experience, there is no separate self. It is not possible to know from actual experience whether a separate self ever existed.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is a thought story that starts with the thought of an "experiencer". In this case it forms a story of the life of "John" with memories of a past and hopes/dreams/worries about the future.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels "clear", like some of the fog has lifted. Experience feels more immediate, senses more "alive". The "me" story is still there but has less pull. Life is flowing with less resistance.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Each set of questions was helpful. Looking at "time" seemed to jar something loose and break some of the pull of the storytelling process.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decision, intention, free will, choice and control are thought stories. Things just happen on their own with no one making them so. But then the "me" story kicks in and tries to explain them relative to other memories. There is no "you" to be responsible, and responsibility is a thought story. This doesn't mean that everything is random. For example, when driving there is a naturally intelligent response to sights and sounds even though there is no one controlling it. When eating, the "body" knows how to feed itself and when it has had enough food.

6) Anything to add?

Although looking is easier than before, thought is still not completely clear. The thought stories continue to run and are often unnoticed.

So grateful for your guidance!

John

Thank you for the great answers John!

I will now ask the other guides if they have any further questions and will get back to you as soon as possible (may be a day or so).

Very best wishes!

Nina
Xx

Hi again John,

There are no further questions! Are you a Facebook user? Our After-gate groups are mostly on Facebook. If you do have a Facebook Identity, could you please PM me with it? Then you can be added to the group.

Thanks

Nina
Xxx