Looking for some guidance

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Pedersen
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Re: Looking for some guidance

Postby Pedersen » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:17 pm

Hi Kento
Does time exist as reality, or is it more like a concept?
Time is merely a concept, a useful tool.
Does the "I" exist in any form other than a thought?
No, in direct experience there´s no I, there are only thoughts claiming to be the I.
Now, do you have anything you want to further clarify?
There´s no I and therefore no one that want clarifying, at the same time no thoughts about clarification appear:-)

Wish you a wonderful weekend Kento:-)

Best regards,
Pedersen

Bananafish
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Re: Looking for some guidance

Postby Bananafish » Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:56 pm

Hello, Pedersen. :)
Time is merely a concept, a useful tool.

Yes, a mere thought ...

No, in direct experience there´s no I, there are only thoughts claiming to be the I.

Great! :)

There´s no I and therefore no one that want clarifying, at the same time no thoughts about clarification appear:-)

The first part sounds a bit like reasoning. Can you feel, rather than think, and see if any
feeling of unclarity remains (regarding the fact that there is no separate entity called the "self")?

Is your understanding visceral now?

Wish you a wonderful weekend Kento:-)

Thanks! :) Have a wonderful weekend, Pedersen!


Peace,

Kento

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Pedersen
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Re: Looking for some guidance

Postby Pedersen » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:14 pm

Hi Kento:-)
Is your understanding visceral now?
Yes the understanding is visceral, the intellectual understanding is now seen to arise/pop out without a self as a doer. The experience comes in waves, but are beyond the storytelling from thoughts.
It actually feels silly, when writing this simultaneously recognising no one is writing it - it's an automatic process.

As I mentioned, it feels like it comes in waves - sometimes not recognising the illusion and sometimes recognising it clearly.

To answer the question, there is no feeling of unclarity - all there is at this moment are random thoughts and the conceptual labels of emotions and also pain sensation from a cut in the finger - all happening in the same space


Peace Kento :-)

Bananafish
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Re: Looking for some guidance

Postby Bananafish » Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:51 am

Greetings, Pedersen! :)
Yes the understanding is visceral, the intellectual understanding is now seen to arise/pop out without a self as a doer. The experience comes in waves, but are beyond the storytelling from thoughts.
It actually feels silly, when writing this simultaneously recognising no one is writing it - it's an automatic process.

As I mentioned, it feels like it comes in waves - sometimes not recognising the illusion and sometimes recognising it clearly.

To answer the question, there is no feeling of unclarity - all there is at this moment are random thoughts and the conceptual labels of emotions and also pain sensation from a cut in the finger - all happening in the same space

Great!


The following will be the final questions to be asked.

Please, as you've done so far, don't think over them, but LOOK and feel.
Let me know if anything turned out to be unclear; then we can take a further LOOK
together.

Above said, here are the questions!


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.


4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?


5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.


6) Anything to add?



Best regards,

Kento

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Pedersen
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Re: Looking for some guidance

Postby Pedersen » Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:51 pm

Hi Kento

Hope your weekend has been great?

The questions, from direct experience...
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No self ever existed, it was thoughts and sensations all along that created the illusion.. There simply is no "I".
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
From my experience, the "I" is simply an illusion created from an endless stream of random thoughts that claim ownership of actions - mixed in with sense inputs of seeing, hearing, feeling etc. The thoughts are truly random, there are no thinker of thoughts that choose what to think. The illusion is amazing in that actions are happening, and thoughts pop out of nowhere AFTER the fact and claim themselves as the doer, chooser, owner etc. When not looking, the assumption is the reverse - a self wants something and choose to do an action to make it happen.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days
The same feelings appear, but they do not stick to a self - And this fact makes experience more joyfull. Example, before seeing the illusion, negativity would be experienced by sensations in the body and thoughts developing negative stories that makes the sensations grow more intense and then making thoughts comment even more and more - like a snowball effect. The difference now is that if negative emotions show up, it is seen that no self is experiencing these emotions - subsequently the emtions fade away. And actually, emotions are not seen as either good or bad, they´re just a specific kind of sensation in the body.
Another difference is how sense inputs are experienced - Everything from thoughts to seeing and hearing etc. are recognized as objects that appear in the same space - this space can´t really be described as it doesn´t have any qualities. There is more of an experience of everything just flowing, automatically and with no doer anywhere.

All in all, there is an experience of all objects just appearing - no volition and everything just flowing.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
No one thing, this happened subtely and incrementally. The more Kento made me look, the more it gradually made me experience life flowing with no doer of anything. Also, from walks in the woods there was suddenly a strong experience of not being able to see my head - this gradually made me feel every object of seeing, hearing etc. happening in the same space, instead of in a three dimensional location.

But the fact that Kento kept asking me to look in what is happening in experience, and not in concepts and labels, made the shift happening.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Objects just appear, be it thoughts or sounds or any other object. There is no entity that controls anything, in fact there is no entity at all - Therefore none of the concepts mentioned have any validity. The conepts are stories made up by thoughts. Thoughts are always and endlessly making up stories to explain actions and happenings, but they are always just popping out of nowhere after the fact.

An experiment I did a while ago which I described in the thread is to decide either to raise the left og right arm, and LOOK if any self actually makes any decision. When losely looking, it is clearly seen and experienced that NO ONE decides what arm to raise, it simply just happens. And when paying attention, thoughts are not able to claim the doership.
6) Anything to add?
Nothing to add right now.

Have a great monday

Best Regards,
Pedersen

Bananafish
Posts: 5155
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
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Re: Looking for some guidance

Postby Bananafish » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:12 pm

Hi Pedersen!

I'm so glad I can tell you that my fellow guides have read our thread,
and have no questions to ask.

Congrats Pedersen, the gate has been crashed!


Thanks for sharing your journey Home with me.

I had a wonderful time guiding you ... :)


I've sent you a private message, so please take a look at it.


Best regards,

Kento

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Pedersen
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: Looking for some guidance

Postby Pedersen » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:12 pm

Dear Kento,

Thank you so much for being my guide and for the great effort to point in the right direction.. It´s been a pleasure to have these conversations with you:-)

Peace,
Pedersen


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