NoLabel requests a guide

[NoLabel]

Hey Sandra!

I meant that the character NoLabel is just a creation of the mind. It doesn’t exist. It’s not me. It is just a character. When I refer to the mind I mean that it is just a tool, a part of the body. It’s not me.

Can you pin point the size of this self that lives between the ears and behind the eyes?
Where is the edge of it, the boundary?

No, I can’t find an edge of a self. I cannot find a self that is real, I can’t see anything like this. But on the other hand I feel confused today. Some clarity that I might have some times, it comes and goes. I have to reset every time to here and now. So, now the head is spinning faster. There is no much concentration now. The question I have right now is “Who is answering your questions?”

I want a question that will simplify some stuff. There is an understanding for some stuff, but it’s still in the air. Nothing is settling.

Hug and thanks a lot for all the help.
I Really appreciate your effort.

NoLabel

[Canfora]

Hey again!

I meant that the character NoLabel is just a creation of the mind. It doesn’t exist. It’s not me. It is just a character. When I refer to the mind I mean that it is just a tool, a part of the body. It’s not me.

Ok, great, I hear you :)

No, I can’t find an edge of a self. I cannot find a self that is real, I can’t see anything like this. But on the other hand I feel confused today. Some clarity that I might have some times, it comes and goes. I have to reset every time to here and now. So, now the head is spinning faster. There is no much concentration now. The question I have right now is “Who is answering your questions?”

Resetting to here and now is a good idea, here and now is where this inquiry works. The lack of concentration may be a sign that you are making more effort than needed. You can try to spend short periods of time looking, instead of lots of time.

When you use the word "who" in a question, you are already implying there is a "who" somewhere that can eventually appear - which may seem confusing. If instead of "who", you ask "what" maybe the questions will make more sense to you.

And, if there is no answer to some of your questions, consider the possibility that the absence of an answer is the answer. Thinking/language is very limited. Reality can't be framed by our thinking about it.

The question I have right now is “Who is answering your questions?”

What is your answer to your own question?
Have you looked to how answering does happen to find your answer?
If you observe what goes on when "answering a question" can you see a you anywhere doing anything?
Do thoughts and the movements of the head, fingers or eyes need a you to happen?

I want a question that will simplify some stuff. There is an understanding for some stuff, but it’s still in the air. Nothing is settling.

Uh, what needs to be simplified? Why is understanding needed? This is not about finding answers or changing thoughts.... and sure, it may feel unsettling. Seeing you aren't a separate self can shake your beliefs about lots of stuff. Let me know if you start feeling fear, anxiety or other unsettling emotions.

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

I had visitors in the house so I couldn’t answer to you. I have read your questions though, and I have tried to examine them from time to time through the last days. Today that I am finally on my own I have tried to give some answers writing and deleting over and over again, with not much results.

What is your answer to your own question?

I have no idea! Thoughts just come into the head. From where? I don’t know.

What is your answer to your own question?

If there is no me, how can I have my “own” questions? Too frustrating!

Uh, what needs to be simplified?

There is expectation for some calmness... There is frustration right now, anger, disappointment...and a little bit bored to be honest. I feel like I am making circles...

Frustrated hug, :(
NoLabel

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel.

Sorry to hear about the frustration. But - if you LOOK - can you see that "frustration" is a label for an experience that is a mix of sensations and thoughts?

If there is no me, how can I have my “own” questions? Too frustrating!

Why are questions "yours"? If thoughts appear from "you don't know where", if a thinker can't be found, how about the owner of all these questions? Can you find this entity that owns thoughts?

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

- if you LOOK - can you see that "frustration" is a label for an experience that is a mix of sensations and thoughts?

Today that there is more calmness I can see that. But it’s very difficult to reset to here and now when all these thoughts, feelings, sensations coming up all together. Yes, now I can see that all these just appear on their own. So, if there is frustration, I can’t do anything about it, because there is no me to do anything about it. This is just the moment for here and now. It couldn’t be better or worst. It is just, what is going on right now.
So, the best thing that can be done is to just observe what is going on here and now. But if observation just happens, and there is no me to observe, and there is no decider, how a decision can be made that “there is only observation that can be done right now”…

Why are questions "yours"? If thoughts appear from "you don't know where", if a thinker can't be found, how about the owner of all these questions? Can you find this entity that owns thoughts?

Ok, questions are not mine. Questions are just another thought. There is no owner of these questions or thoughts. Life is just responding to what is going on here and now. Life just responds… the mind identifies these responds as thoughts, feelings, sensations etc… It dresses them up with a label of “mine”… (To be honest this thought appears to the mind some days now, but it’s not sure if it’s “my” understanding or it is a concept coming from the book “Gateless_Gatecrashers” that I have read, about two months ago).
How can we make this clear? I am trying to be honest with you because I don’t like thoughts that are like “cheating”.

Ps: I can see now that frustration is a label for an experience that is a mix of sensations and thoughts… but this doesn’t happen all the time. Could this be more permanent in the future? (I know this is an expectation of the mind… hmm there is a realization right now that “I” am seeking for a different state. And with this expectation I can’t see the only thing that exists: Here and now)

Hug,
NoLabel

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel,

But it’s very difficult to reset to here and now when all these thoughts, feelings, sensations coming up all together.

Does this mean you have no control over thoughts, feelings, sensations ?
If you do not have control over them, why are you trying to reset thoughts, feelings, sensations?
If you stay with them and just LOOK at them, can you see that they're not what you are?
Can you also see how everything is changing all the time? Do you have any control over impermanence?
Sit in a quiet place and have a look.
What do you see?
What do you see that IS an I?

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

On a previous post I have said:

Some clarity that I might have some times, it comes and goes. I have to reset every time to here and now.

And you had replied:

Resetting to here and now is a good idea, here and now is where this inquiry works.

But on the post above you said:

Does this mean you have no control over thoughts, feelings, sensations ?
If you do not have control over them, why are you trying to reset thoughts, feelings, sensations?

Because when the head is spinning I can’t see what is here and now. It’s only a cloud of thoughts, sounds, and songs playing in the head, no concentration at all. But when I say to myself, “Ok, focus to what is going on right now”, then the mind goes slower and I can follow what is going on.

If you stay with them and just LOOK at them, can you see that they're not what you are?
Can you also see how everything is changing all the time? Do you have any control over impermanence?
Sit in a quiet place and have a look.
What do you see?
What do you see that IS an I?

So, I sat on a quiet place for a looong time. There was frustration, anxiety and loooots of anger. Thoughts, images, songs, thoughts replying to thoughts, observing and analyzing to thoughts, then lost in all these again…Sometimes almost fell asleep. The following thought was coming over and over again to me: “This inquiry it’s not for me. It doesn’t work for me. It doesn’t make any sense”.

If you stay with them and just LOOK at them, can you see that they're not what you are?

The other thought was coming over and over again was this: If there is no me, there is no observer, no decider, no looker… who is supposed to LOOK? To whom do you refer to? Am I missing something?
Do I have free will? If not with what will can I LooK? And if there is no free will, then we are just what we are? There is no opportunity for improvement? If someone is a serial killer, this is what he is? He cannot stop it? He cannot improve himself? What about all the addictions? We supposed to have them forever?
Sorry for this Sandra, but it doesn’t make any sense to me.

Hug!
NoLabel

Ps: I hope you haven't been bored of me yet.

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel,

Thank you for describing your experience. Don't worry with me, what you're going through is very comum. It's ok.

Sorry for this Sandra, but it doesn’t make any sense to me.

Of course it doesn't. Why should it make sense?
This is a seeing, not a "making sense of".
Wouldn't "make sense of it" imply thinking making sense?
Why should thinking about this make any sense at all?
A thought can't see, can it? So how would that work?

Because when the head is spinning I can’t see what is here and now.

You're not being asked to think. You're being asked to look.
If your head is spinning you've been thinking.
Thinking is ok but it will not make you see what I'm pointing to.
If you believe thoughts like this “This inquiry it’s not for me. It doesn’t work for me. It doesn’t make any sense” you will not look.
And it is in looking that this can be seen.
By looking I mean physically looking.
If there is a separate you, it must be somewhere to be found.
Can you see/find this separate you?
Have a look...

If there is no me, there is no observer, no decider, no looker… who is supposed to LOOK? To whom do you refer to?

Looking is happening, there is no doubt of it. Can you find what is looking? What do you see looking?

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hey Sandra,

Your previous post was very important to me. I don’t know why exactly, but it was!

Today I spend some time at the beach, just enjoying and just “looking”.
Just looking, not thinking, not analyzing. Just looking. I think your words “physically looking” simplified some things a little bit.
It was ok, and after a while there was an uplifting feeling. Not something incredible, but everything got more simple and more intense at the same time. I was smiling and even laughing some times. There was a feeling of refreshment!

I can’t describe it 100% and I don’t want. Every time I try to explain it, it doesn’t work. So I continued just looking and it was a beautiful day.

Sandra wrote: Can you find what is looking? What do you see looking?

At some point I was trying to find what is looking. What is behind the vision, the hearing, and the sense of the wind on the skin? I have no idea for now. The only thing I can say with some uncertainty is that it was like something greater than NoLabel was looking. And the feeling of it was like… the feeling of a vivid, like an impish kid smiling. Hehehe… Tell me if this doesn’t make any sense.

Lots of hugs,

NoLabel

[Canfora]

What a beautiful post.... thank you!
I think you should spend some time enjoying looking, enjoying that "feeling of a vivid, like an impish kid smiling".
Let me know how things are going, when you feel like it. I will be here with some more questions for you :)
Questions can be very helpful but looking is even more helpful, and it seems you are starting to have the hang of it. Happy for you!

Big hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

How are you? I kind of missed our chat.

I took some time as you said, to explore more into looking. Not settle yet. It comes and goes. I have no idea when and how it happens. Sometimes, it just happens. Some others, it doesn’t.

The times that is does happen its all clearer and there is love! For everything or every person that is comes to the mind those “looking times” there is love. And you are one of these persons. I am very grateful for your help! :)
But still, there are other times that there is frustration and all these feelings and thoughts that make pelple feel lost. And on these times I cannot see, that “now there is frustration”, “now I am lost in thoughts”. No, it’s too difficult. But I am not disappointed! I just tell you what there is (or there is not) :)

The weekend I went for camping at the beach. I will not describe all the times I was looking or not, except of one that there was one more realization. So, many things went wrong on this camping. I was imagining a beautiful weekend with myself in nature bla blabla. Hehehe, nope!! So at about 10:00 at night I went to my tent to go to sleep. I was exhausted but I couldn’t sleep. My head was spinning like crazy ("not looking" happened that day by the way). So, I was trying to see that “I am lost in thoughts, that there is frustration etc” but it was not working at all. So, after some time I gave up. I just let go into this storm. And then, suddenly I literally listened and felt a buzz, like the power is off! Fuck, it was like everything stopped! I suddenly was listening to the waves. Do you believe that I was all day at the beach, and it was the first time that I could hear the waves??? So, I guess this “let go” is important!

Anyway, besides this, I still have millions of questions, which I have the times that I am not looking. But instead of this I am looking forward for your questions first.

BIG HUG (and a big smile from times to times)…
NoLabel.

[Canfora]

Hi! Thank you for sharing how things are going!
I have answered your message.
We can say there is seeing and there is being apparently lost in thoughts. Then resistance can also appear - it shouldn't be like this, why is this still happening, why does it seem so hard to rest in looking.
I suppose that looking, like everything in life, needs practice to settle in.
And seeing that you are not separate from life is not an end of old patterns of reacting to the world and thinking patterns. Or a happy ever after, where everything is suddenly blissful or perfect.
Would you say that when looking happens you can see with 100% clarity that you are not a separate entity, that controls a slice of life and is inside a body?
Are you aware of your lack of control? Your experience at the beach is a good example of how things never are how we think they should be. I had one of those weekends where if I could, I would change everything that has happened :)
There are good days, there are bad days, c'est la vie...

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Good morning Sandra!

Yes, there is a lot of resistance!

As regards the separate self, I don’t think that I have “seen” it completely. To be honest I think it’s more intellectual. The times that there is “looking” I can’t see clear what is watching. So, it’s not clear yet. Looking it happens sometimes but it’s still very abstract.

Would you say that when looking happens you can see with 100% clarity that you are not a separate entity, that controls a slice of life and is inside a body?

This is what I am talking about. For now, nothing of this isn’t 100% clear, something that it will be the base of understanding.
No, character NoLabel is still here. It is still behind of things.

Hug,
NoLabel

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel!

Thank you for your honesty!

Yes, there is a lot of resistance!

Do you think resistance should disappear?
How is resistance experienced?
Where do you feel it?
What are the thoughts, the story about the resistance?

As regards the separate self, I don’t think that I have “seen” it completely. To be honest I think it’s more intellectual. The times that there is “looking” I can’t see clear what is watching. So, it’s not clear yet. Looking it happens sometimes but it’s still very abstract.

Why do you say looking is still very abstract?
How can looking be abstract?
When you are looking for your house keys, is that looking abstract?
What is the difference between looking for your house keys and looking for a separate you?

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

hi Sandra.

Do you think resistance should disappear?
How is resistance experienced?
Where do you feel it?
What are the thoughts, the story about the resistance?

Yes, to be honest I expected that resistance should disappear. Not that everything will be perfect etc, but just the fact that that I know now that there is no separate self there would be no reason to resist. Resist to what? But as I can understand I haven’t seen yet that a separate self doesn’t exist. I know the concept, I like it a lot, I can understand it intellectually but it’s not a realization of an experience yet.
Resistance is experienced as frustration, anxiety, anger, and no interest for doing anything particular. I am bored! I think I feel it mostly in the mind. And to be honest probably is the expectation that when there is “looking” some things will be better. But because there is an expectation there is no looking, and even if there is I can’t appreciate it because I seek for something similar to the previous “lookings” I had. (does this make any sense?)
Once again, how can I see it through my experience that there is no me?

Why do you say looking is still very abstract?
How can looking be abstract?

Some times “looking” was pretty clear. As I told you I didn’t tried to analyze it but it was a clear experience. The mind was not interfering and even if it was there was a clear observation of it. Just the observation of a thought, and there was no attachment to it.
But most of the other times perhaps things got more quiet, maybe the mind was not spinning, but I could see behind this experience the character NoLabel was trying to identify these experiences as his. (It was like, “Yeah I did it”. And this confuses me because when looking is happening I would expect to realize that there is no me somewhere that is experiencing it. But, I still can see this Me.

I start to get tired of this. At least that was the feeling I had today. I don’t feel better, I feel worst, more confused. Because there are all these things we have discuss here, but I don’t feel that any of this is 100% my realization. (even now I am confused and I make steps backwards: how can I realize it if there is no me?)

Please explain me something if you can. What is the difference of these two phrases?
1) There is no self
2) There is no separate self (what we mean by separate? Separate from whom? From me or do you mean that all the people we are one in life?)

When you are looking for your house keys, is that looking abstract?
What is the difference between looking for your house keys and looking for a separate you?

The difference is that the keys exist. I can see them (if I find them I can see them and hold them to my hand, I can feel them)
The separate self I can’t find it nowhere even if I am looking for my whole life. (So, why do I have to look to see something that it doesn’t exist? How can I see that there is no separate self if he doesn’t exist?)
Sorry, today it’s a very confusing day.

Thanks again and sorry if that is taking too long.
Hug,
Stelios