All right. Let`s move to the last part. Again take as much time you need to answer the questions below.
Afterwards I will ask the other guides to take a look and see if they have any follow up questions of their own.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Hello
Re: Hello
There are a lot of questions here. I am going to answer one at a time so as to avoid confusion on your part.
Re: Hello
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
The separate "self, me, I" if is a paradigm that is exists in the mind. Does it exist? Only on the level of the mind. Does the mind exist? No. I am not able to explain anything else via words.
The separate "self, me, I" if is a paradigm that is exists in the mind. Does it exist? Only on the level of the mind. Does the mind exist? No. I am not able to explain anything else via words.
Re: Hello
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The separate self is an illusion. The separate self is always searching for something. It is looking for something to add to it's content. It does not feel complete, whole and feels alone. I am not able to share when it starts from this present point. If I look to the past I can say it would start when I was identified with some version of a story of Karen and what Karen needed to do, be, achieve.
The separate self is an illusion. The separate self is always searching for something. It is looking for something to add to it's content. It does not feel complete, whole and feels alone. I am not able to share when it starts from this present point. If I look to the past I can say it would start when I was identified with some version of a story of Karen and what Karen needed to do, be, achieve.
Re: Hello
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
I am not able to say any one thing that pushed me over. I have been dabbling with these concepts for a very long time. I believe that reading the book "Look" and working with my spiritual teacher (Yogini) helped me to see. I have had several experiences over the past decade of Oneness and no identification with the self, along with medicine journey's with particular sacred plants. I have needed clarification and all the things (the book, my teacher, this forum) helped to give me the clarity that was needed. I think all of it came together this weekend.
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
I am not able to say any one thing that pushed me over. I have been dabbling with these concepts for a very long time. I believe that reading the book "Look" and working with my spiritual teacher (Yogini) helped me to see. I have had several experiences over the past decade of Oneness and no identification with the self, along with medicine journey's with particular sacred plants. I have needed clarification and all the things (the book, my teacher, this forum) helped to give me the clarity that was needed. I think all of it came together this weekend.
Re: Hello
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
decision-happens on its own
intention-not sure
free will-not sure there is free will as all is happening on its own
choice-happens on its own
control-what would be controlled?
what makes things happen-no idea...
how does it work-not sure what "it" you are referring to....however I will just give an explanation as it is understood on this end. Everything is energy. Everything arises out of energy. Each energy is an expression of God or Source.
6) Anything to add?-no
decision-happens on its own
intention-not sure
free will-not sure there is free will as all is happening on its own
choice-happens on its own
control-what would be controlled?
what makes things happen-no idea...
how does it work-not sure what "it" you are referring to....however I will just give an explanation as it is understood on this end. Everything is energy. Everything arises out of energy. Each energy is an expression of God or Source.
6) Anything to add?-no
Re: Hello
Follow up questions from another guide:
Also at (5) can you give some examples?
Can you please explain your answer? And why there was no definite "no"?1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
The separate "self, me, I" if is a paradigm that is exists in the mind. Does it exist? Only on the level of the mind. Does the mind exist? No. I am not able to explain anything else via words.
Also at (5) can you give some examples?
Re: Hello
"I" will answer the first part and the follow later for the second question.
At this point the memory of why a definite "no" was not the response is not able to be re-called-the reply was made a day or so ago.
"Is there a separate entity-self-me-I at all, anywhere, in anyway. Was there ever? No. It was something that came as a learned identification and it stuck for many years until recent exploration came about. "I" still notice at times that I get identified with the separate self. The experience is that it is a thought, it is not real. Currently, "I" am still untangling from the concept of "I". Noticing there are times when "I" get caught in the story of "I", "me" or "mine". "I" understand all of this, have experiences of no self and yet still get caught up in the story of "I". Please do not respond back that "YOU" are confused and how can I say one thing one time and something other in the next sentence. If this is the case-please refer me to another guide. Thank you.
At this point the memory of why a definite "no" was not the response is not able to be re-called-the reply was made a day or so ago.
"Is there a separate entity-self-me-I at all, anywhere, in anyway. Was there ever? No. It was something that came as a learned identification and it stuck for many years until recent exploration came about. "I" still notice at times that I get identified with the separate self. The experience is that it is a thought, it is not real. Currently, "I" am still untangling from the concept of "I". Noticing there are times when "I" get caught in the story of "I", "me" or "mine". "I" understand all of this, have experiences of no self and yet still get caught up in the story of "I". Please do not respond back that "YOU" are confused and how can I say one thing one time and something other in the next sentence. If this is the case-please refer me to another guide. Thank you.
Re: Hello
Thats not what you said last time. So which one is it? How can you say something now and something completely opposite the next. Can you make up your mind already because this is really confusing!!!Noticing there are times when "I" get caught in the story of "I", "me" or "mine". "I" understand all of this, have experiences of no self and yet still get caught up in the story of "I".
The above is just a joke.
For me its pretty clear that you can see. Getting entangled in the story of "I" wont just disappear over night. But now you have the tools to attend the problem.
There is something else I`ve been meaning to ask. My guiding is pretty blunt. I always went straight to the point. I like to get things done. Well not "I" but you know what I mean. Im not into long conversations that spawn over months on end and a dozen pages.
So far I thought this method is pretty neat, the other 2 clients I had went through the gate in no time. I guess this method doesnt apply to everybody.
Its pretty obvious that you didnt like my style. That is not a problem. We`re all different. My question is why exactly didnt you say something about it sooner? I could have asked for another guide to replace me a lot quicker and spare both of us of what followed.
I too have changed guides. Both of them were good. My first guide actually introduced me to LU. It was just that I didnt get along with her. Its like we were speaking different languages. Or maybe I was not ready enough. Either way I am grateful to both for dedicating their time to help me through. And this is why I started guiding, to give something back to the LU community.
what I noticed is that instead of challenging me and talking to me about your dislike, you just grew defensive. Your answers became shorter and you seemed even bored at times. In the end the distate had to erupt and it did...
Please do not respond back that "YOU" are confused and how can I say one thing one time and something other in the next sentence. If this is the case-please refer me to another guide. Thank you.
And that at a question asked not by ME but by another guide...
So as much as I do think that you gated, there is something inside of me that makes me wonder if theres something I missed guiding you through. Emotions maybe? OK maybe you dont like me or my guiding style, but is there identification happening with an outcome, whichever that is?
Its just a rhetorical question, you dont have to answer me if you dont want to.
Anyway we have post-gate resources as well, both here and a few Facebook groups where you can get help in case you feel like its needed. Like I said gating happens once but getting used to it might take longer.
In the end just wanted to say that if I offended you during my guiding I didnt mean to. I was just doing what i thought best at that time, and maybe it wouldnt hurt to develop more empathy in the future.
I`ll see if there are any more questions from other guides.
Re: Hello
Hello~
I did not realize I could ask for a different guide. I am not sure what other style of guiding would be like as there has only been this one experience. I think you are asking for feedback about the experience and I hear that you would have preferred that I put my frustrations out in the forum rather than be what appeared to be defensive and short answered. Perhaps we both felt something and neither inquired from the other?
In the beginning there was excitement about having a guide and the desire to learn and grow. Rather than the experience be about pointing it seemed that it was about how I was responding, be it format or the quality of my answers. After this kind of theme came up a third time the safety was gone in being able to express the experiences as they were. So, the method became learning on my own, using the book and other things to get the clarity from the questions you were asking. When it was time to answer the answers were short because the clarity was worked out rather than expressed through this forum and I felt that short answers might be clearer for you. Does this make sense?
To me the process can be confusing and there is a lot of going back and forth between realities, etc. as one is diving in to this. That is the confusion. Jumping on a site and not really knowing the protocol and format as to what is desirable in answering is just something that could be explained. I also think that much of the confusion came around too many questions being asked at one time and then the going back and forth over so many questions. Things can change rapidly in one day and then when there is questioning about something that happened two days ago, etc. this can create a lot of confusion as the shade of illusion can get lifted in minutes.
I am glad that you brought all this up. I did not feel the safety to inquire about this and am glad to have it out in the open. The awareness of no "I" or "self" is becoming deeper and deeper and I do appreciate your time and effort in helping me. It all worked out perfectly!
There is is the element of strangeness for me as all I have spent doing and being no longer seems to matter. There seems to be this tangling up in what am "I" doing? What is my purpose? How do I want to experience life and then I look deeper into that and see it is all steeped in the separate self. I am still untangling from that kind of thing. I let go of all my clients on June 1 of this year as I decided to take a sabbatical from "working". The reason this was done is to see what exactly is it that is ready to be created? This is where the "I" is getting tangled up still. I know that I need to keep looking at this and see......there is some fear in that as well and I just look at the fear.....
That is all! :) Nice joke at the beginning of your note!
I did not realize I could ask for a different guide. I am not sure what other style of guiding would be like as there has only been this one experience. I think you are asking for feedback about the experience and I hear that you would have preferred that I put my frustrations out in the forum rather than be what appeared to be defensive and short answered. Perhaps we both felt something and neither inquired from the other?
In the beginning there was excitement about having a guide and the desire to learn and grow. Rather than the experience be about pointing it seemed that it was about how I was responding, be it format or the quality of my answers. After this kind of theme came up a third time the safety was gone in being able to express the experiences as they were. So, the method became learning on my own, using the book and other things to get the clarity from the questions you were asking. When it was time to answer the answers were short because the clarity was worked out rather than expressed through this forum and I felt that short answers might be clearer for you. Does this make sense?
To me the process can be confusing and there is a lot of going back and forth between realities, etc. as one is diving in to this. That is the confusion. Jumping on a site and not really knowing the protocol and format as to what is desirable in answering is just something that could be explained. I also think that much of the confusion came around too many questions being asked at one time and then the going back and forth over so many questions. Things can change rapidly in one day and then when there is questioning about something that happened two days ago, etc. this can create a lot of confusion as the shade of illusion can get lifted in minutes.
I am glad that you brought all this up. I did not feel the safety to inquire about this and am glad to have it out in the open. The awareness of no "I" or "self" is becoming deeper and deeper and I do appreciate your time and effort in helping me. It all worked out perfectly!
There is is the element of strangeness for me as all I have spent doing and being no longer seems to matter. There seems to be this tangling up in what am "I" doing? What is my purpose? How do I want to experience life and then I look deeper into that and see it is all steeped in the separate self. I am still untangling from that kind of thing. I let go of all my clients on June 1 of this year as I decided to take a sabbatical from "working". The reason this was done is to see what exactly is it that is ready to be created? This is where the "I" is getting tangled up still. I know that I need to keep looking at this and see......there is some fear in that as well and I just look at the fear.....
That is all! :) Nice joke at the beginning of your note!
Re: Hello
I know what you mean. Its easy to slip back into the "reality of the separate self" because we deal with so many people and situations that regard us as a "person" and want something from us. A few months after my gating I tended to slip back into seeing the separation of the bodies. Something inside my head reversed to: "well thats a whole different person in front of me, how can there be no self?". That created a feeling of slight discomfort which I recognized as similar to my general experience pre-gate.To me the process can be confusing and there is a lot of going back and forth between realities, etc. as one is diving in to this. That is the confusion.
And at one point I took a step back, I reversed the process, instead of seeing this mass of the object in front of me, I realized its actually my sight and the other senses that are sending the bits of information through the nervous system to my brain which was creating the image in front of me. Thinking about it, this is more of an advaita technique then what we`re doing here at LU. But hey which ever works for you.
There might also be times when you will even question yourself if there was really a moment of SEEING and not just a flickering discovery of the moment. Again take a step back, empty your mind and see what IS instead, and confusion will dispel. Its a process really.
Exactly. And thats a perspective I havent considered yet.There seems to be this tangling up in what am "I" doing? What is my purpose? How do I want to experience life and then I look deeper into that and see it is all steeped in the separate self.
Thats why Im here so let me know if there is anything else you would like to talk about.I am glad that you brought all this up. I did not feel the safety to inquire about this and am glad to have it out in the open.
Also please dont forget to answer that second question from the other guide so I can get back to her :)
Re: Hello
Thanks-I might need a day or two to respond, things are busy right now and there is not much computer time happening!
Re: Hello
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Decision:
When this topic was originally brought up I was told to do an exercise around choosing to raise my arm or not raise my arm. At first it seemed that a decision was being made and then an action. However, the more I looked it became apparent that there was awareness at the time of an action as if a decision had been made. I am not sure how the decision is made. It now seems I am existing in the experiences of decisions however I am not making decisions. All happens and it seem to happen based on the field of energy.
Intention:
I am not clear if you mean setting an intention or what specifically you are asking here. I guess if you are asking how intention happens if an intention was to be set? I guess the only way an intention could be set would be through the “I” or separate self. Since there is no separate self then when would intention arise? Perhaps you can explain more of what you are looking for here.
Choice
Seems like choice and decision are pretty similar. Choice was talked about earlier in our discussion. There is no choosing, it happens on its own.
Control
Not sure what you are asking about here as well….Do you mean am I controlling anything? As I said, what would be controlled? There is nothing to control The separate self believes that it is in control of everything. Things happen. Life.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
When you say things, I am assuming you are referring to experiences? Not sure if that is what is meant by things, but I will go with what I am suggesting and you can let me know if you meant something different. Experiences happen. For the most part things are happening based on energy. There is a vibration to everything and vibrations attract different experiences based on the vibration. I have no idea what creates the energy, however everything on the planet is energy and energy is not able to be destroyed, it can only be transformed. So things happen according to the different energies rising or falling or whatever. Is the energy making things happen, probably not-probably nothing makes anything happen-things happen as they unfold.
What am I responsible for?
“I”am not responsible for anything, things happen, but there is no “I” responsible for things. A mortgage payment is made, the house is cleaned, a car is driven-these things happen-it is pure experience. There is no “I”. I am not the owner of this home. There is a home, there is a mortgage and a payment is made for the mortgage, these things happen, but there is no “I” responsible for any of this.
Other things:
It is getting easier and easier to let go of the “I”. Had a tripping experience around relating with a so called other…..Then I realize how fast the mind comes in and starts building a story around “I” and a relationship with another person. Quite freeing actually to let go of all the BS.
Decision:
When this topic was originally brought up I was told to do an exercise around choosing to raise my arm or not raise my arm. At first it seemed that a decision was being made and then an action. However, the more I looked it became apparent that there was awareness at the time of an action as if a decision had been made. I am not sure how the decision is made. It now seems I am existing in the experiences of decisions however I am not making decisions. All happens and it seem to happen based on the field of energy.
Intention:
I am not clear if you mean setting an intention or what specifically you are asking here. I guess if you are asking how intention happens if an intention was to be set? I guess the only way an intention could be set would be through the “I” or separate self. Since there is no separate self then when would intention arise? Perhaps you can explain more of what you are looking for here.
Choice
Seems like choice and decision are pretty similar. Choice was talked about earlier in our discussion. There is no choosing, it happens on its own.
Control
Not sure what you are asking about here as well….Do you mean am I controlling anything? As I said, what would be controlled? There is nothing to control The separate self believes that it is in control of everything. Things happen. Life.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
When you say things, I am assuming you are referring to experiences? Not sure if that is what is meant by things, but I will go with what I am suggesting and you can let me know if you meant something different. Experiences happen. For the most part things are happening based on energy. There is a vibration to everything and vibrations attract different experiences based on the vibration. I have no idea what creates the energy, however everything on the planet is energy and energy is not able to be destroyed, it can only be transformed. So things happen according to the different energies rising or falling or whatever. Is the energy making things happen, probably not-probably nothing makes anything happen-things happen as they unfold.
What am I responsible for?
“I”am not responsible for anything, things happen, but there is no “I” responsible for things. A mortgage payment is made, the house is cleaned, a car is driven-these things happen-it is pure experience. There is no “I”. I am not the owner of this home. There is a home, there is a mortgage and a payment is made for the mortgage, these things happen, but there is no “I” responsible for any of this.
Other things:
It is getting easier and easier to let go of the “I”. Had a tripping experience around relating with a so called other…..Then I realize how fast the mind comes in and starts building a story around “I” and a relationship with another person. Quite freeing actually to let go of all the BS.
Re: Hello
Hi Karen,
Thank you for that. Everything is clear from our end as well and we have no more questions for you.
I will send you a PM shortly. Also an admin will message you with what happens next.
I am glad I was able to assist you on your journey and frankly I learned a few things myself :)
Andrei
Thank you for that. Everything is clear from our end as well and we have no more questions for you.
I will send you a PM shortly. Also an admin will message you with what happens next.
I am glad I was able to assist you on your journey and frankly I learned a few things myself :)
Andrei
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