The Gate

Sarah, Still working through some questions from your last post. Will look into your other questions more tonight and tomorrow.

OK – so see if you can find something that isn’t on autopilot!
How does no ‘me’ affect life life-ing?

Cannot find anything not on autopilot at the moment. This afternoon - cooking happening, whistling happening - and who is noticing. No "one". Just noticing. Hearing, listening to the humming of a tune, hearing the vibrations of "my" lips. The narrative of "I want to read the news on my IPad" after the feet are already moving upstairs to find it. This evening - turning page of Gateless Gatecrashers is on autopilot. Picking up journal is on autopilot. Shifting position and getting comfortable on the couch is on autopilot. Looking up, putting feet up on the ottoman, deep breath, look right, look left, all on autopilot. Even work is just happening, patterning, like a boulder rolling down a mountain or a snowball down a hill. Noticing the very real story unfolding. "No driver" as Ilona said, but a very real story unfolding. In this case with Dave as the main character.

Despite all this, feelings of hurt arise when someone says something hurtful. Understanding "who is suffering?", however the body feels these feelings and can't help but feel hurt and often react. These feeling are part of the story unfolding, sure. Life can be unpleasant at times, sure. Do "I" own this feeling...no. But such feelings can sure be unpleasant and can really pull "no-me" back into I! Hope that makes sense.

Summit83 wrote:
Noticing that doing has just been happening. This is bringing up a LOT of questions...What is not on autopilot? How does recognizing that some or most or all of life is simply happening without a ME-manager affect life itself? How does this realization change the course / direction of life? Is it possible it does not? Has this realization been simply waiting to happen? Wow.

Did you bring the realization? Or did that just happen too?

Realizations just happen. Just part of the unfolding story of Dave. Definitely a perk of life life-ing! :) (Agreed - another great word!)

Best,

Dave

Just found this on Ilona's blog. Wonderful timing for this to appear :)

http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... ferer.html

How does suffering appear in the body? It's a contraction. There is a sensation of tightness or emptiness like a hole, whatever description, does not matter. But bringing attention to sensing rather then thinking about it, lets the tension start dissolving. If you keep focus on feeling, just letting it be there, just watching the raw energy without naming it, it starts dissipating. Test it.

Love the idea of not naming the suffering and simply being with the "contraction" or however the hurt or suffering manifests in the body.

Hey Dave

Cannot find anything not on autopilot at the moment.

Lovely! And what if identification takes place again? Would that be a problem?
Look for thoughts saying ‘this isn’t it’, or ‘this cant be right’.
What if thoughts pop up saying ‘Ive lost it’? Is that a problem? If so for who or what?

Despite all this, feelings of hurt arise when someone says something hurtful. Understanding "who is suffering?", however the body feels these feelings and can't help but feel hurt and often react. These feeling are part of the story unfolding, sure. Life can be unpleasant at times, sure. Do "I" own this feeling...no. But such feelings can sure be unpleasant and can really pull "no-me" back into I! Hope that makes sense.

Again some fantastic noticings here and it does.
Do you bring emotion? Is it yours? Does it belong to you? How is emotion any different from say a thought passing by, or a doing movement? Again is there a thought saying ‘this isn’t it’ or ‘this isn’t how its supposed to be’? Is there story attached to emotion?

the idea of not naming the suffering and simply being with the "contraction" or however the hurt or suffering manifests in the body.

Suffering manifesting in the body comes from story and resistance to what is. Track the resistance back to its source. Work out what its made up of. That’s all that’s needed. Just see it and smile! There is love there.
And Ill wait for the rest of what is noticed for when you have time!
Hugs Sarah xxx

Hey Sarah,

Lovely! And what if identification takes place again? Would that be a problem? Look for thoughts saying ‘this isn’t it’, or ‘this cant be right’. What if thoughts pop up saying ‘Ive lost it’? Is that a problem? If so for who or what?

Will look into this...

Do you bring emotion? Is it yours? Does it belong to you? How is emotion any different from say a thought passing by, or a doing movement? Again is there a thought saying ‘this isn’t it’ or ‘this isn’t how its supposed to be’? Is there story attached to emotion?

No, I don't bring emotion. Seems more and more like it is simply a function of surrounding environment, habitual patterns, life bumping into life, surprises, unexpected events, etc. Life bumps into life, a feeling of shock or surprise or some jolt of energy, then the story follows so quickly...practically instantaneous - I am irritated, I am angry, I am laughing, I am proud, I am, I am, I am...even afterwards and looking back, more stories arise to compliment the initial story - just building and building.

Suffering manifesting in the body comes from story and resistance to what is. Track the resistance back to its source. Work out what its made up of. That’s all that’s needed. Just see it and smile! There is love there.

Yes, noticed "anger". It manifested rapidly as a feeling of tightening in the upper chest, throat area, shoulder. Regardless of how or where it popped up, once noticed, and without a story or name like *anger* associated with it, it just passes. Like a thought. Also seems that environmental triggers and history of similar events can simply bring on these emotions. Smile indeed. :)

More to come,

Dave

Can you separate that which notices from what is noticed? Kind of like a mirror with reflections on it. Is there a reflection that doesn’t belong? A reflection that better than another reflection?

Keep coming back to this. Physically there is apparent separation. For example sitting here in a chair looking at a painting on the wall. But because cannot grasp that which notices, determining actual separation is proving difficult. Noticing is just happening and thoughts are just happening seemingly without a driver behind it.

Hey Sarah,

Will look into this...

Please do!

I am, I am, I am...

Great!

Yes, noticed "anger". It manifested rapidly as a feeling of tightening in the upper chest, throat area, shoulder. Regardless of how or where it popped up, once noticed, and without a story or name like *anger* associated with it, it just passes. Like a thought. Also seems that environmental triggers and history of similar events can simply bring on these emotions. Smile indeed. :)

Back to the mirror again – are emotions reflections passing across the surface of noticing? Is doing? Is movement? Are thoughts? Are feelings? Can you ever not access what notices? Even in anger?

Keep coming back to this. Physically there is apparent separation. For example sitting here in a chair looking at a painting on the wall. But because cannot grasp that which notices, determining actual separation is proving difficult. Noticing is just happening and thoughts are just happening seemingly without a driver behind it.

Lets look at sensory experience and separation. Lets start with seeing.

Describe the experience of seeing step-by-step. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of? Go into detail. Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing.

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable? Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there only seeing? What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?

Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end?

How many senses are there here - 1 or more? Relate this to sound and touch – what is actually experienced – the table or the sense of seeing?

More to come,

Ooo goody!
Hugs Sarah xxx

That should say Hey Dave!!!!! LOL S xxx

Sarah, First off, Thank you for this dialogue thus far. It has been nothing but a positive experience and really appreciating it.

Lets look at sensory experience and separation. Lets start with seeing.Describe the experience of seeing step-by-step. In seeing, what is being experienced?

OK. Looking to the right happens. Seeing a pair of snowshoes on the wall. See a beer. Reaching, drinking. Hand plopping down on the coach. Scrolling on the iPad happens. Reading what has been written happens. A feeling arises. Mind quickly labels it: pride, satisfaction, another feeling arises that is quickly labeled: 'progress is happening'.

What is happening when "seeing" is happening?

When seeing happens, labeling happens. Instantaneously. Hand in hand.

What is doing the seeing?

The thought-stream shouts: ME ME ME...but it is just thoughts. Brain and eyes process the seeing but WHAT IS DOING THE SEEING? What is DRIVING what is seeing? Life! Nothing to be seen other than what is to be seen.

What is being seen?

Observations of surroundings. Seeing a black cat looking out the window. A dog resting on the couch. Walking up the stairs, the reflection metaphor CLICKS. Life seeing life and only that life that is to be seen. Brilliant. :)

What does "seeing" consists of? Go into detail. Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing.

Seeing is processing that which is all around. A way to move about the world. To experience the world. It brings up emotions. It brings up memories. Sometimes it brings up nothing. Sometimes seeing is just seeing, but more often, seeing brings labels and thought-trains and that's OK.

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later?

Not sure I completely understand this question.

Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable?

Inseparable. More to come. :)

Dave

Morning Dave!
So does seeing happen even when attention is elsewhere? Can you find a ‘you’ seeing or is that just in thought? Think of a tv screen – thoughts say the image has a background and a foreground but really there is only a flat screen – so as you look out the window is there separation from what is seen, the seeing itself and the see-er?
Look forward to seeing (LOL) what else you notice from the other questions!
Hugs Sarah xxx

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience.

My direct experience of seeing. Here it goes. Seeing is just taking place. Looking happens. A bottle of Coca-Cola passes into view. A feeling arises and words rapidly form to put a label to that feeling. The words seem to be "find something else," because instantly a search for a different object of focus begins. This all occurs in a matter of seconds or perhaps even less time.

Seeing a big black dog laying down on the carpet. She makes herself comfortable, makes a few sounds. Settles. Noises arise, she lifts her head in the air, then puts it back down.

Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing?

Seeing is just happening. Movement driven by past conditioning and present environment, and seeing happening without a deciding "me" ascertaining what to see.

Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable?

A dividing line - not sure what such would look like with regards to seeing. Shifting to the experience of touch. Touching happens, feeling a wooden table happens, the table shifts on its legs, fingers feel the grainy texture and cool temperature of the wood. Are the table and the touching of the table inseparable? Will look.

So does seeing happen even when attention is elsewhere?

Yes, seeing happens regardless of where attention is.

Can you find a ‘you’ seeing or is that just in thought?

Correct, just in thought.

Think of a tv screen – thoughts say the image has a background and a foreground but really there is only a flat screen – so as you look out the window is there separation from what is seen, the seeing itself and the see-e

Love this analogy and kept coming back to it all day. Trying not to think through this conceptually and simply experience whether separation can be perceived as you've described. Finding this difficult.

Hi Dave

A dividing line - not sure what such would look like with regards to seeing. Shifting to the experience of touch. Touching happens, feeling a wooden table happens, the table shifts on its legs, fingers feel the grainy texture and cool temperature of the wood. Are the table and the touching of the table inseparable? Will look.

Well is there a line between you, the seeing and what is seen? Or is it all like the TV, one inseparable experience. Kind of like seeing when attention is elsewhere!

So then – onto hearing.

Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought, "Those are birds." Notice the habitual thought, "I hear that." Now just pay attention to how hearing happens. Take your time with it. Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the hearing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the hearing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer. Look closely. Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience?
What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know? Can you catch the labelling – ‘I’ hear that?
Hugs Sarah xxx

Hi Sarah,

Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought, "Those are birds." Notice the habitual thought, "I hear that." Now just pay attention to how hearing happens. Take your time with it. Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the hearing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the hearing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer. Look closely. Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience?

OK, sound. Hearing happens - a creaky step, a dog barking in the yard. If attention is elsewhere noticing that labeling can happen on a significant delay. But hearing happens even in the absence of labeling or if the mind struggles to label a noise.

What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know? Can you catch the labelling – ‘I’ hear that?

And yes, even "noise" is just a label.

Well is there a line between you, the seeing and what is seen? Or is it all like the TV, one inseparable experience. Kind of like seeing when attention is elsewhere!

Still loving this TV analogy regarding the illusion of separateness. It seems that, recognizing the additional "layer" of thoughts being applied to life all around, that hearing is just happening (trains, birds chirping, wind blowing and tree leaves rustling), feeling is just happening, seeing is just happening. Thoughts and labels then arise, and stories arise to "weave" it all together.

Noticing a seed from a cotton tree drifting in the wind. Also noticing these words, labels, and stories to describe this "life event" that simply arose to label, structure, and communicate the experience.

Is there a difference between the "me" seeing and the seeing? No. The me is just the label for this particular perspective and story that arises after, or as, life is seen.

Is there a difference between the seeing and the seen or the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer? Will look into this next and feeling excited to do so!

Dave

Hey Dave
Looking good here. Ill wait till you've finished then answer more fully. OK!
Hugs Sarah xxx

Sarah, Lot of noticing throughout the day today. First on a lengthy plane ride. Then over dinner at a restaurant on a hotel patio.

On the plane, anger, worry, stress, all of these feelings are happening. Related to work. The story, "I will feel like this for days" brings another feeling - dread. More anger. Then the thought, "How can I invite anger in? How can "I" peek behind it if life is not ready for peeking to happen?" Breathing happens. Calming happens. A remembering of the scene from the Matrix where the Oracle gives Neo a cookie and tells him he'll feel right as rain once he walks out that door. :) The anger, stress, passes.

Answers to some of your questions below as well, as applicable noticings arose during dinner.

Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer. Look closely. Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience?

Over dinner, cars on a nearby road are heard. Hearing is happening. Without the story of me superimposed on top of these sounds, they are heard and pass by. The hearing of the sound of salad crunching and the salad itself. How can you separate? The wind and the feeling of the wind in hair. All just sounds and sensations and all just happening.

Lower back pain is happening. But to whom? The body of this unique perspective. Slight head-aching. Birds chirping. Excitement arises as the thought pops up - "a sound that's not a car!" :)

The taste, tasted, and taster - this seems almost absurd once you remove the ownership of "I am the taster" from the equation. Sipping water with lemon - the taste is there, the sound of ice clinking. All just one experience. Why separate?

How does no 'me' affect life life-ing?

There is only this moment. Past is past, stories are stories. Letting go happens once this becomes clear.
This no-me is a "unique perspective". (Read this term in Gateless Gatecrashers in Peter's interview and WOW - that REALLY resonated.). No "I" story does not diminish the unique perspective or the unique conditioning or unique patterns this no-me has perceived, experienced, or grown up with. Sipping a water with lemon happens. A light wind blows through barely trembling leaves. At this moment, noticing less judgement, more watching. Much contentment.

With gratitude,

Dave

Hi Dave

On the plane, anger, worry, stress, all of these feelings are happening. Related to work. The story, "I will feel like this for days" brings another feeling - dread. More anger. Then the thought, "How can I invite anger in? How can "I" peek behind it if life is not ready for peeking to happen?" Breathing happens. Calming happens. A remembering of the scene from the Matrix where the Oracle gives Neo a cookie and tells him he'll feel right as rain once he walks out that door. :) The anger, stress, passes.

And was what noticed anger angry? In fact is what notices bothered by anything that happens or is experienced?

The taste, tasted, and taster - this seems almost absurd once you remove the ownership of "I am the taster" from the equation. Sipping water with lemon - the taste is there, the sound of ice clinking. All just one experience. Why separate?

Great! You jumped ahead! LOL You might want to look at smell too then!

There is only this moment. Past is past, stories are stories. Letting go happens once this becomes clear. This no-me is a "unique perspective". (Read this term in Gateless Gatecrashers in Peter's interview and WOW - that REALLY resonated.). No "I" story does not diminish the unique perspective or the unique conditioning or unique patterns this no-me has perceived, experienced, or grown up with. Sipping a water with lemon happens. A light wind blows through barely trembling leaves. At this moment, noticing less judgement, more watching. Much contentment.

And what if identification happens? Is that a problem? If so to who or what?
Does it matter what happens in this moment? If so to who or what?

OK – on to touch. This is quite a long one so take your time here!

Touch the table with your eyes shut (or open). Pretend like it’s the first time you have ever touched a table. Go straight to the raw sensation/perception. How do you know its there? What is your direct experience of this ‘table’? List your direct experience. Is it senses again? Is it thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the senses or the thoughts?
Does the sensation of touching come with a shape, density, weight, size, colour, age or function? Does this sensation come with a ‘not me’ label or ‘other’ label? Is it one sensation/perception or two?
Look at how thoughts try and take over, try and explain, try and prove. Notice your memories or references with which you compare the experience.
Sit with these sensations. Look at them. Look at the labelling e.g. table, hand. Look at the thoughts or story that attach at the end of this list if any. What is your direct experience of these words? Do they exist? How do you know they are there? List your direct experience. Are they sensations again? Are they just thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the sensation or the thoughts? Don’t pay attention to the thoughts just look at what they do, when they come in.

Sit on a chair with your eyes closed. Feel the Direct Experience of sitting there. Notice thoughts thinking, labelling and explaining. Notice memory too. Notice sensations experiencing. Notice the sensation of bottom on chair – what is that – a thought? Notice the ‘me’ ‘mine labels e.g. this is my bottom – but look closely at that sensation labelling – is it yours, or just coming and going along with thoughts, ever changing. Is it the thought that wants to own? How many sensations do you notice? 2? One bottom sensation, and one chair sensation? How is that possible? Where does one sensation end and another begin? Locate that line. Can you feel that line? Or is that thought? Can you sense that line – or is that thought explaining the sensation? Eyes closed. Turn your attention to your skin. Do you have Direct Experience of it being outside?

Do we experience sensations or do we experience sensing? For us to experience a sensation it would have to be independently walking around. Do you experience a sensation inside another sensation? Do you experience a perception inside another perception? A sensation inside a perception, a perception inside a sensation? Do you experience a body in the world and a mind in the body? How can a body be in the world and a mind in a body? Do you experience a thought inside a perception or a sensation? How can you experience a thought inside a body or inside the world? Experience has no inside or outside – it is just experience seamlessly experiencing.
Hugs Sarah xxx