The Gate

I guess the sadness came from letting go of something familiar. Although there wasn't anything to truly let go of. I think there has been a lot of surfacing emotions during this process that had been buried. The sadness has passed though.

I guess I imagined discovering that there is no separate self would come with a firm, intuitive conviction and sometimes I keep getting caught up in the story of amber that I forget it's only a story and not me. The whole "intellectual vs experiential" thing comes mostly from what I've heard others say before, so it's only a concept that has been taken as a belief in what to expect.

That is a lovely reply, AmberMarie.
I was just concerned that your sadness was due to something we have not yet looked into and I wanted you to be clear about things. Providing the automatic operation of thought is recognise, then that is all that can be done.

Just as a general exercise:

Has any thought ever been created by you?
Has any thought that has appeared ever made reference to a real separate 'you'?
Has any thought ever had anything to do with you at all? :-)

Here are the first of the three main questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference between 'now' and from before you started this dialogue? Perhaps give a report from the past few days.

3) Was there a last bit that pushed you over? Made you look and realise? Perhaps something I mentioned, or something that you looked into yourself?

Xain ♥

Hey Xain, sorry for not posting in a couple of days. I've been a bit busy lately and haven't had much free time.

Has any thought ever been created by you?

No. Thoughts appear on their own without "me" doing anything to create them.

Has any thought that has appeared ever made reference to a real separate 'you'?

Nope. Any reference to a "me" is only a thought about another thought.

Has any thought ever had anything to do with you at all? :-)

Nothing whatsoever. Only ideas layered upon ideas.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There never has been and never will be any sort of separate entity. There are only thoughts about being a separate self, but thoughts are not reality, only ideas about reality.

2) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference between 'now' and from before you started this dialogue? Perhaps give a report from the past few days.

Honestly, nothing feels much different. The main difference, perhaps the only difference, is that there is now recognition that "I" is only a thought. "I" still get engrossed in the drama of daily life and there isn't any elevation of mood or a feeling of peace. There is more of a feeling of acceptance, however, and less resistance to what is.

3) Was there a last bit that pushed you over? Made you look and realise? Perhaps something I mentioned, or something that you looked into yourself?

I'm not sure. It kind of felt like it happened gradually. I think realizing that what led up to finding this site and starting this investigation all just happened without anyone controlling it helped a lot. It's like I took a step back and looked at the bigger picture and just knew that there doesn't need to be an "I", "me", "self" at all for life to be. In fact, the concept of a separate self is what causes so much unnecessary suffering. Yet, it has no true power since it cannot act, think, or change anything. All this is very clear now.

Thanks for your replies, Ambermarie.

. . . but thoughts are not reality, only ideas about reality.

Just as a sideline . . . you could go into this deeper - This would make an interesting consideration for 'further looking' if you have an interest in it. (Nothing to do with this guiding though).

Here are the last three of the six.

4) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now. (Feel free to use conventional language here)

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Please give examples from experience if possible.

6) Do you have anything else you would like to say or add?

Xain ♥

4) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now. (Feel free to use conventional language here)

The illusion of separate self is only a belief that the mind, body, being is owned and controlled by someone or something. It starts with the learning of language and is conditioned through thinking and identifying with the "I" thought. It is an often unquestioned assumption and the source of needless suffering. It works by labeling experiences as happening to "me" and thoughts and actions as being done by "me".

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Please give examples from experience if possible.

Decision, intention, free will, choice and control are all a part of the illusion of a separate self. They are merely concepts that describe supposed abilities of a separate entity. In truth, there is no one who decides, intends, or controls anything because there is no separate entity. Things happen. Period. There is no one owning any of it. Life just is. I am not responsible for anything, because there is no me except the thought of me. A thought cannot make choices or be responsible. For example, when driving I am not making decisions about where to turn, how much pressure to put on the gas pedal, what radio station to listen to. These things just happen. Sometimes thinking is involved, but I am not doing the thinking. Thoughts are there, automatically popping up from nowhere.

6) Do you have anything else you would like to say or add?

I'm not sure. It feels like I am missing something, but I can't say for certain what. There is still some doubt that won't go away. Hmm...

Hi once more Ambermarie

Thank you once more for your replies, which are really clear (and have always been so).
I am confident that you've 'seen' but I am never really happy until 'you' are.

I'm not sure. It feels like I am missing something, but I can't say for certain what. There is still some doubt that won't go away. Hmm..

Could you identify exactly what?
Perhaps something was meant to happen? Perhaps something was expected to 'change'?

Although you have seen 'no separate self', we can still communicate using 'I' - We know it is just the apparent passing of thoughts and ideas.

'Seeing no self' is by no means an end point and was never going to be. There will be other things to look into.

Xain ♥

Thank you Xain. You have been incredibly helpful and patient.

I'm thinking that I expected more of a feeling of conclusion, like when you're finally home at the end of a long journey. Or a sense of a relief. But I'm realizing that neither of these passing states could be liberation. Just more stories. It's funny how much the mind enjoys telling stories, good and bad. It would rather keep seeking endlessly to stay entertained.

So, what now?

The other guides have looked through your answers and are also happy that you have made the realisation.
Thank you for sticking in there :-)

What now?
Well if you are on Facebook I can add you to the groups there where you can talk further with other people who have 'gone through the gate' if you wish and share your feelings and experiences. There are also groups for 'further looking' if that interests you. Or you may continue chatting with me on there :-)
Other things to examine - 'Other people', 'the nature of objects/the world', 'time', 'space', 'separation in the senses' and examination of any constant thought patterns that return due to conditioning of course.

If you wish this, please let me know your facebook name and/or page link in a private message and I will add you in (click the red name 'Xain' and then choose 'send private message').

All the very best to you
Xain ♥