Looking for help :)

[QuantSelfLaFont]

I can't get my head round really

Understand. Let's keep walking together.

like a sort of slideshow of all of that Gem stuff..i can only really describe it in relation to thought

So let me reflect that back: At the level of "I doing" things can only be described in relation to thought (the slideshow)

The second level seems to be sort of split in two again

Another reflection: At the level of "I" having nothing to do with action another split that seems light simple and purer and the description still is not to sensation yet. That's ok.

Let's push down into it. You write:

there seems to be the awakeness of experience

Exercise: Sit quietly and see if you can enjoy that awakeness. Write the body sensations you feel in that awakeness.

Thanks!

[piiineapple]

Understand. Let's keep walking together.

This is amazingly helpful, and I'm cherishing your replies each morning! Thank you, really.

Exercise: Sit quietly and see if you can enjoy that awakeness. Write the body sensations you feel in that awakeness.

The body sensations felt in that awakeness... There is just the sensations of what is coming through the sense doors: feeling, hearing, tasting, etc. As far as I can deduce in my experience, that's all there is when I am in that awakeness. It seems simpler, lighter and purer because that's all that there seems to be to it, without the added slideshow of concepts.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

This is amazingly helpful

Thank you, its my pleasure.

With respect to sensations when you are in "awakeness":

There is just the sensations of what is coming through the sense doors: feeling, hearing, tasting, etc.

Excellent. Let's focus on those doors.

For me right now pressure on my legs from the chair, whistling sound out far to to right and up from a car on the road, humming to my left from the gas fireplace, "click click" from wife's keyboard across room. Sensation on front of belly from shirt, slight buzzing movement on back of neck. Breath rises and falls.

My story about all of this is I'm feeling pretty good and relaxed on a lazy Saturday afternoon. And that is a story. The senses keep clocking along listening to the cadence of awareness.

Exercise: Sit quietly and describe those sensations as I just demonstrated.

Thanks!

[piiineapple]

Exercise: Sit quietly and describe those sensations as I just demonstrated.

There is warmth and soft pressure on my front thighs where the pillow with the laptop on it is resting. There is a heavy pressure and hotness on my back thighs. There is itching in various locations on my feet. There is brightness in my eyes, as well as various colours. There is a whooshing noise from my laptop fan, as well as the clicking noise of my typing, plus the jangling noise of the dog's collar. There is the soft pressure underneath my fingertips and tingling in my hands. Pain in my right shoulder and heat down my face. There is a pressure in my stomach and a dryness in my mouth. There's coolness in my nostrils from air going in, and the rising and falling of my chest.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

There is warmth and soft pressure on my front thighs where the pillow with the laptop on it is resting. There is a heavy pressure and hotness on my back thighs. There is itching in various locations on my feet. There is brightness in my eyes, as well as various colours. There is a whooshing noise from my laptop fan, as well as the clicking noise of my typing, plus the jangling noise of the dog's collar. There is the soft pressure underneath my fingertips and tingling in my hands. Pain in my right shoulder and heat down my face. There is a pressure in my stomach and a dryness in my mouth. There's coolness in my nostrils from air going in, and the rising and falling of my chest.

Brilliant. All of it. This is what we in LU call "direct experience." Nicely done.

So let's introduce "less quietness" to the situation to see how these sensations play out. Let's go back to this statement you made:

when you asked me to describe Gem. It feels like a sort of slideshow of all of that Gem stuff that made up the description of me (the memories, how I look, how I perceive myself, etcetc) which kind of features as a background thing in my unreflective thoughts...it seems busy, constantly moving, changing from this to that, always contributing to that Gem description. It feels draining, tiresome, and sad.

Exercise: Sit and once again describe Gem. View the slideshow. See the movement, the way the description changes based on different people and situations. When it feels you are deep into that, stop and describe the sensations in the body as you did in your last post.

[piiineapple]

Exercise: Sit and once again describe Gem. View the slideshow. See the movement, the way the description changes based on different people and situations. When it feels you are deep into that, stop and describe the sensations in the body as you did in your last post.

I tried to really get into this- and it seems to me that the sensations are the same? Exactly the same, other than the loudness of the thoughts. I can't differentiate the two, sorry. Perhaps what I could say is that with particularly visceral memories there were constellations of body sensations which I could either say as just that (constellations), or see them as the emotions I interpreted them as at the time, for example shame or sadness etc. I would say that those sensations still came up with the awakeness stuff though, only the meaning is separated such that you can just seem the sensations as sensations rather than as emotions prompting action. Anyway that's probably not what you meant to write about!

[QuantSelfLaFont]

Friend Gem, you did not describe sensations. You said:

I tried to really get into this- and it seems to me that the sensations are the same? Exactly the same, other than the loudness of the thoughts. I can't differentiate the two, sorry. Perhaps what I could say is that with particularly visceral memories there were constellations of body sensations which I could either say as just that (constellations), or see them as the emotions I interpreted them as at the time, for example shame or sadness etc. I would say that those sensations still came up with the awakeness stuff though, only the meaning is separated such that you can just seem the sensations as sensations rather than as emotions prompting action. Anyway that's probably not what you meant to write about!

Not a single sensation described. Right now I feel a warmth in my belly. The seat pressing against my backside. Figures moving on a television. Some man to my right talking loudly about wifi.

Exactly the same

Let's see.

Exercise: Pull out your do list for the day, or your spring cleaning list, or whatever tool your remind yourself with to get things done. Go through the items and allow yourself to get a bit worked up about what you have not gotten done. Then describe the sensations to me.

Thanks!

[piiineapple]

Dammit, sorry about that!

Exercise: Pull out your do list for the day, or your spring cleaning list, or whatever tool your remind yourself with to get things done. Go through the items and allow yourself to get a bit worked up about what you have not gotten done. Then describe the sensations to me.

There's warmth under my legs, and the front of my legs. Tapping noise from the keyboard, and the soft sensation of the keys underneath my fingertips. There's lights in front of my eyes, and moving shapes. There's also tension across my chest which makes it feel tighter, and a tightness in my throat, down my neck, and jaw. I have a heavy sensation in my head, and aching across my shoulders. Itching on my ankle and head. Sound of digging, engines, and birds.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

There's warmth under my legs, and the front of my legs. Tapping noise from the keyboard, and the soft sensation of the keys underneath my fingertips. There's lights in front of my eyes, and moving shapes. There's also tension across my chest which makes it feel tighter, and a tightness in my throat, down my neck, and jaw. I have a heavy sensation in my head, and aching across my shoulders. Itching on my ankle and head. Sound of digging, engines, and birds.

Brilliant. There it is. Thank you.

When you felt these sensations I imagine there was also some of this:

Gem stuff that made up the description of me (the memories, how I look, how I perceive myself, etcetc) which kind of features as a background thing in my unreflective thoughts

How are these two related? No wrong answers. Just consider it and tell me how they connect.

Thanks!

[piiineapple]

how are these two related?

I guess it seems that that background slideshow Gem concept I was talking about is the one noticing all of that de safe stuff. It seems like I am sitting to notice the things you asked me to notice, and I am the thing that processes the meaning and understanding of those things such that I can be aware of them, name them, know what I mean by them etc.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

Ok, slightly different question.

Question: Are your sensations different when sit and notice them vs. when you think about things like "I am the thing that processes the meaning and understanding of those things such that I can be aware of them" .... do the sensations differ? Look a your sensations. Do they vary?

[piiineapple]

Ok, slightly different question.

Question: Are your sensations different when sit and notice them vs. when you think about things like "I am the thing that processes the meaning and understanding of those things such that I can be aware of them" .... do the sensations differ? Look a your sensations. Do they vary?

No they are the same sensations. Experiencing them from the slideshow-gem thing makes them see a little more removed, like the concept of self is overlayed on them or something, and they seem like a bit removed. I don't think they actually are though, that's just the belief inherent in that way of experiencing ?

[QuantSelfLaFont]

No they are the same sensations.

Ok, good noticing.

Question: What is happening when the Gem slideshow arises? What causes it?

Thanks!

[piiineapple]

No they are the same sensations.

Ok, good noticing.

Question: What is happening when the Gem slideshow arises? What causes it?

Thanks!

I am tempted to say that it's always there. It's a background thing that I just always have going on. It seems quieter at times of concentration and attentiveness, and louder at times of strong emotion/feeling/or inattentive going about my business.
I know theoretically it's about seeing it arise and what causes it, but I don't feel like I have that perspective or experience. It just always seems to be there/ I always seem to be here!

The sensations are the same, but I haven't felt as though the story of me and my awareness of me changes so that I can see how I could not be there. I don't feel like something that just arises or is caused, even though I agree that the self is just an assumed thought/ belief. I don't see it :(

[QuantSelfLaFont]

though I agree that the self is just an assumed thought/ belief. I don't see it :(

Question1: When a child who was raised believing in Santa Claus finds out that Santa does not exist, does that child need to see something to understand what happened wrt Santa?

Question2: That same child, what does Santa become for him or her?