Requesting a guide

[Little Em]

Don't have time to answer properly now - but want to write something before going away for weekend: Some very intense feelings /emotions / sensations arising (and passing away) in response to exercises. 'I'm' going on a family camping retreat for the weekend (Buddhafield) and will carry on looking, and will give you full response when 'I' get back :)

[Hannah B-T]

I'm going to Holland camping for a few days from Sunday so also might not be online as much but will keep an eye out.

Strong reactions to these questions are a great barometer saying what needs looking at the most! It's all good.

If it is a fear visceral type reaction that comes up then sit quietly and ask/say to the fear 'thank you, but what exactly are you trying to protect here?'

The story is some of the most fruitful 'looking' happened on those Buddafield camping retreats.
Go for a few walks in nature if you get the chance with the questions and see what shakes out....

xx

[Little Em]

Hi
Buddhafield camp was lovely, but busy, not so much time for looking, but now 'i'm' backhere are my responses:

Hannah is a word, six letters, what is the word referring to right now?

Right now the word is referring to sensations in 'my' gut, and in 'my' arms and legs,emotions that are labelled sadness, grief, fear, thoughts about a body and a mind and thoughts about that body and a mind and a recollection of a face that gets labelled 'mine'

Is there an I separate to body sensations experiencing them\?

No feel like the awareness of senations and the sensations are one

Does the label mine change anything that's going on?

Thoughts seem to proliferate when the label mine is applied, and the story is that those thoughts trigger sensations in the gut and feelings in the gut, pangs, aches - but otherwise no change

Take a look at your flat, tv, lover, your emotions, your life what actually makes them yours

Nothing makes them 'mine': looking back at old pictures with old partners and old houses, there's is clear seeing that they are only 'mine' in the sense that there was a labelling and identification, but no reality outside these stories

What makes an emotion mine?

Hmm - often comes alongside thought / a story about 'me' and is located in the body (usually gut, chest) and there is a reflex/ habbit that labels it as 'mine' as being contained in 'my' body

What about 'my' body?

Sat with photo's from different phases of 'my' life:

Immediately felt a lot of strong emotions and sensations in the middle of 'my' chest when looking at the woman in the mirror and particularly when looking at the little girl in the photo, then lots of sensations / pangs in the gut area and initially a lot of thoughts / stories about how both are 'me', also noticed lots of stories abut which aspects of 'me' in mirror were attractive / unattractive and then an awareness of sensations, and waves of emotion that got labelled pain, grief, arising and passing away. Then when looking there were thoughts / a story about looking into a void and not wanting to face the void, and noticed that it was hard to look into the eyes in the mirror and there was a sense of looking for an 'I' behind those eyes, then sadness came, and can feel that sadness now as a I type sensations in my gut, clenching of my teeth, and then this passes and there is an awareness of typing and then more sensations in gut that get labelled grief, sadness

Is there a self in any of those images?

Tears are coming now as I write this, a tightness in the heart centre, a churning in the gut, but no no self, no centre, just a stories are remembered, recollected now

Is any part of the whole image you? How? What's saying that?

There is a story that the whole image is 'me' but also thoughts about how hair and nails will be cut, how a mirror image is not true etc but still some visceral, felt identification pops up there

When I look to see who's saying that - initially went to sensations in my head, around my eyes, then theres' awareness of senstaions in the gut, and chest, and an awareness of typing and a hearing of wind outside and sun coming in, so again, when looking - no centre

When I ask what the fear is trying to protect: there is a story about wanting to protect something soft, and a story about not wanting to face the void, and a story about not wanting to not know

[Little Em]

Hi
Buddhafield camp was lovely, but busy, not so much time for looking, but now 'i'm' backhere are my responses:

Hannah is a word, six letters, what is the word referring to right now?

Right now the word is referring to sensations in 'my' gut, and in 'my' arms and legs,emotions that are labelled sadness, grief, fear, thoughts about a body and a mind and thoughts about that body and a mind and a recollection of a face that gets labelled 'mine'

Is there an I separate to body sensations experiencing them\?

No feel like the awareness of senations and the sensations are one

Does the label mine change anything that's going on?

Thoughts seem to proliferate when the label mine is applied, and the story is that those thoughts trigger sensations in the gut and feelings in the gut, pangs, aches - but otherwise no change

Take a look at your flat, tv, lover, your emotions, your life what actually makes them yours

Nothing makes them 'mine': looking back at old pictures with old partners and old houses, there's is clear seeing that they are only 'mine' in the sense that there was a labelling and identification, but no reality outside these stories

What makes an emotion mine?

Hmm - often comes alongside thought / a story about 'me' and is located in the body (usually gut, chest) and there is a reflex/ habbit that labels it as 'mine' as being contained in 'my' body

What about 'my' body?

Sat with photo's from different phases of 'my' life:

Immediately felt a lot of strong emotions and sensations in the middle of 'my' chest when looking at the woman in the mirror and particularly when looking at the little girl in the photo, then lots of sensations / pangs in the gut area and initially a lot of thoughts / stories about how both are 'me', also noticed lots of stories abut which aspects of 'me' in mirror were attractive / unattractive and then an awareness of sensations, and waves of emotion that got labelled pain, grief, arising and passing away. Then when looking there were thoughts / a story about looking into a void and not wanting to face the void, and noticed that it was hard to look into the eyes in the mirror and there was a sense of looking for an 'I' behind those eyes, then sadness came, and can feel that sadness now as a I type sensations in my gut, clenching of my teeth, and then this passes and there is an awareness of typing and then more sensations in gut that get labelled grief, sadness

Is there a self in any of those images?

Tears are coming now as I write this, a tightness in the heart centre, a churning in the gut, but no no self, no centre, just a stories are remembered, recollected now

Is any part of the whole image you? How? What's saying that?

There is a story that the whole image is 'me' but also thoughts about how hair and nails will be cut, how a mirror image is not true etc but still some visceral, felt identification pops up there

When I look to see who's saying that - initially went to sensations in my head, around my eyes, then theres' awareness of senstaions in the gut, and chest, and an awareness of typing and a hearing of wind outside and sun coming in, so again, when looking - no centre

When I ask what the fear is trying to protect: there is a story about wanting to protect something soft, and a story about not wanting to face the void, and a story about not wanting to not know

[Little Em]

Hi
Buddhafield camp was lovely, but busy, not so much time for looking, but now 'i'm' backhere are my responses:

Hannah is a word, six letters, what is the word referring to right now?

Right now the word is referring to sensations in 'my' gut, and in 'my' arms and legs,emotions that are labelled sadness, grief, fear, thoughts about a body and a mind and thoughts about that body and a mind and a recollection of a face that gets labelled 'mine'

Is there an I separate to body sensations experiencing them\?

No feel like the awareness of senations and the sensations are one

Does the label mine change anything that's going on?

Thoughts seem to proliferate when the label mine is applied, and the story is that those thoughts trigger sensations in the gut and feelings in the gut, pangs, aches - but otherwise no change

Take a look at your flat, tv, lover, your emotions, your life what actually makes them yours

Nothing makes them 'mine': looking back at old pictures with old partners and old houses, there's is clear seeing that they are only 'mine' in the sense that there was a labelling and identification, but no reality outside these stories

What makes an emotion mine?

Hmm - often comes alongside thought / a story about 'me' and is located in the body (usually gut, chest) and there is a reflex/ habbit that labels it as 'mine' as being contained in 'my' body

What about 'my' body?

Sat with photo's from different phases of 'my' life:

Immediately felt a lot of strong emotions and sensations in the middle of 'my' chest when looking at the woman in the mirror and particularly when looking at the little girl in the photo, then lots of sensations / pangs in the gut area and initially a lot of thoughts / stories about how both are 'me', also noticed lots of stories abut which aspects of 'me' in mirror were attractive / unattractive and then an awareness of sensations, and waves of emotion that got labelled pain, grief, arising and passing away. Then when looking there were thoughts / a story about looking into a void and not wanting to face the void, and noticed that it was hard to look into the eyes in the mirror and there was a sense of looking for an 'I' behind those eyes, then sadness came, and can feel that sadness now as a I type sensations in my gut, clenching of my teeth, and then this passes and there is an awareness of typing and then more sensations in gut that get labelled grief, sadness

Is there a self in any of those images?

Tears are coming now as I write this, a tightness in the heart centre, a churning in the gut, but no no self, no centre, just a stories are remembered, recollected now

Is any part of the whole image you? How? What's saying that?

There is a story that the whole image is 'me' but also thoughts about how hair and nails will be cut, how a mirror image is not true etc but still some visceral, felt identification pops up there

When I look to see who's saying that - initially went to sensations in my head, around my eyes, then theres' awareness of senstaions in the gut, and chest, and an awareness of typing and a hearing of wind outside and sun coming in, so again, when looking - no centre

When I ask what the fear is trying to protect: there is a story about wanting to protect something soft, and a story about not wanting to face the void, and a story about not wanting to not know

[Hannah B-T]

Replying on phone so hope this makes sense because some really good, strong looking in last post and want to keep the momentum going on this-

Take a look at different sensations, wind on face, bum on chair, itches, hunger pangs, headaches...then sensations labelled emotions, and ask of each one-

Are there 2 things here, sensation and something separate experiencing it?
What in experience proves or says that some sensations are more personal or refer to an 'i' than others? And where and what is this I they are referring to? What is found?

Re thought proliferation, look again and check for me that its not raw sensations arriving first and then the I/me story about what those sensations mean IS the mental proliferation.

Grief is OK. This isn't called 'spiritual death' in Triratna for nothing. Just look at the grief in the same way as above.

'Something soft'- is this something soft that needs protecting here now? Or an idea?
This 'void' that needs to be avoided, give me more on that, is it part of the current experience? Describe this void

Xx

[Little Em]

Hi Hannah, thanks for taking the time to do this while you are on holiday. The story here is that there is momentum!

Take a look at different senations..then senations labled emotions, ask of each one- are there 2 things to be found heer. Sensation and someone experiencing it?

No! Feels as though they are one; when ‘just sitting’ there was an awareness of sesnations in ‘my’ leg, arm etc and the awareness was located in the sensations, the mind came in and labelled ‘sensation in my leg’ etc.

What is the experience that proves or says some sesnations are more personal and refer to an I then others and what is the I they refer to. What can be found?

When intense looking at sensations arising was happening could see all sensations as sensations, there was an awareness of sensations coming in moving clusters like waves, moving from chest, to gut through the heart centre, there was some mental commentary on this, but less labelling as mine, less thoughts proliferating, less stories.

When looking for an ‘I’ at the centre of all this, awareness continued to move between sensations and the mind commentated on movement, and thoughts arose, but nothing more could be found

Re thought proliferation, look again and check for me that its not raw senations arriving first and the I/ me story about what the senations mean is the thought proliferation

Yes! Raw sensations come first and then the i/ me story comes in

Something soft – is it here now? Or an idea?

Not here now, just an idea

This ‘void’ that needs to be avaoided, give me more on that, is it part of current experience. Describe this void

Not present right now, bt will post, if possible, if it arises again
xx

[Hannah B-T]

Great stuff, will be back from holiday friday, let me know what if anything still seems sticky around emotions or fear in the meantime x

[Little Em]

Thanks xx

[Hannah B-T]

Hows tricks?

Found that 'void' yet?

Anything that's not clear at the moment about the nature of the ilusion of a separate self?

Is there an experiencer of life separate to life? Or just life, life-ing away just fine....?

x

[Little Em]

Hi,

No void appearing at mo. All feels much clearer - there are still some strong emotion arising and stories playing out, but all feels like life life-ing away. All seems to be passing through quite rapidly, like weather fronts

x

[Hannah B-T]

How would it feel to answer the standard set of questions we ask here on LU at this point, we could see if any further questions or sticking points come out of that. Let me know.

[Little Em]

OK so 'Is there a separate self in any shape or form in reality?'

No - when looking a separate sense of self can't be found

'What is the self and how does it work?'

The self is a concept - a thought about a thought, nothing more!

[Little Em]

Was remembering questions - but just found full version

1)Is there a me in any shape or form was there ever?
When looking a me cannot be found. There never was a me, only thoughts about a me

2)In experience is there an experiencer? Is it body that experiences or is it the body that is experienced?
3)There is no experiencer that can be sepearted from what is experienced; and the body both experiences and is experienced

4)Explain in detail what the illusion of sepearte self is, when it starts and how it works

The illusion of separate self is something that is learned as a small child. When we are referred to as a separate entity with a name and told we have a will and that we own and that we have control over our bodies, and this idea, this thought is believed and experience comes to be filtered through this belief, and this belief is continually re-enforced within our culture and accepted as reality

5) How does it feel to see this?
Right now there are some sadness. There is a story that the sadness is grief for years spent ‘selfing’ but also a sense of these stories and feelings and emotions as transient and impermanent – another weather front passing through

[Hannah B-T]

OK thanks- but just missed a couple out here:

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How
does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Regarding this response:

the body both experiences and is experienced

Take another look- is is accurate to say 'the body experiences'? That's confusing to me that you say there is no experiencer of life yet 'the body experiences'. Perhaps you could clarify?

What is the label 'body' attempting to describe that's going on right now?

xx