The Gate

Hi Emily
Good noticing’s here!

and in those times some clarity peeps through, and a real sense of peacefulness and "things just happening" emerges.

Lovely. See how often you spot this. Look through your day - is it always there?

Extreme physical pain is experienced regularly in the form of migraine headaches, and I do realize that what I said demonstrates LABELING again and suggests a "ME" who experiences it!

And did you find? Have you found ‘Me’ outside story?

When these headaches occur, I try always to just let the physical sensation be what it is and NOT attach it to "me" or to a "story," or have a feeling of "owning" it. Somewhere along the way, the pain sensations become so intense that the "me" starts to blossom forth, as does the story and the ownership of the pain as well...you get the picture!

Is it possible to not attach or to attach? Who or what can attach?
Notice the habits based around this experience - the habit of behaviour, the habit of labelling, of resistance etc. Just notice. Don’t worry if forgetting happens. OK. What do you notice?

Let me press the "pause" button here so that I can properly investigate the lovely exercise you've provided and see where it leads in relation to emotion, pain, fear, etc. I want to take my time and really get into it.

Thank you.
Big hugs Sarah xxx

Hello Again Sarah,

Emily wrote:
and in those times some clarity peeps through, and a real sense of peacefulness and "things just happening" emerges.

Lovely. See how often you spot this. Look through your day - is it always there?

It is always there, but often thought is in the foreground doing a bit of distraction. But I see that that is OK too.

Emily wrote:
Extreme physical pain is experienced regularly in the form of migraine headaches, and I do realize that what I said demonstrates LABELING again and suggests a "ME" who experiences it!

And did you find? Have you found ‘Me’ outside story?

Nope. Without the thoughts/story - no ME. What a relief!!

Emily wrote:
When these headaches occur, I try always to just let the physical sensation be what it is and NOT attach it to "me" or to a "story," or have a feeling of "owning" it. Somewhere along the way, the pain sensations become so intense that the "me" starts to blossom forth, as does the story and the ownership of the pain as well...you get the picture!

Is it possible to not attach or to attach? Who or what can attach?
Notice the habits based around this experience - the habit of behaviour, the habit of labelling, of resistance etc. Just notice. Don’t worry if forgetting happens. OK. What do you notice?

No, you're right of course, there's nobody to attach or not attach, except the wily I-thought habitually making it appear so. At this point, it seems best to answer your questions by responding overall to that very powerful exercise you provided yesterday:

The exercise was extremely meaningful - and relates broadly to various emotions, physical pain, etc. I SEE that virtually everything that SEEMS "challenging" relates back to RESISTANCE in some form or another. And, without the resistance and without getting caught up in thought-labeling, the basic sensations are just that - basic, unremarkable sensations that can (and already do) peacefully exist without all the drama. Stress, tension (mental and/or physical)...all relate back to resisting what is, to trying to change what is, or thinking that it "should" somehow be otherwise. I see that so much has been invested in habitual STORY and LABELING, and that it need not be so. There is a huge relief, in being able to see that "Oh, that's what's going on, but there's really NOTHING underneath all that mental churning." Without the constant, unexamined resistance...nothing there but whatever is actually already there in its unassuming simplicity...

Whew!! Thank you.

Emily

Hey Emily

Nope. Without the thoughts/story - no ME. What a relief!!

Keep checking!

The exercise was extremely meaningful

Lovely. OK – so just for checking purposes – see if this exercise is being used to get rid of what is, especially if there was some sort of relief felt whilst doing it or after. Thought is a tricky little bugger as you know and it will go around in circles every chance it gets – boom - straight back into concept again.
And with resistance – watch story trying to attach to that as well – I shouldn’t be, this shouldn’t be, etc….. blah, blah, blah….. what would mind resistance being there!
Hugs Sarah xxx

Hi Sarah,

Emily wrote:
Nope. Without the thoughts/story - no ME. What a relief!!

Keep checking!

Yes, I will definitely keep checking, and checking some more.

Emily wrote:
The exercise was extremely meaningful

Lovely. OK – so just for checking purposes – see if this exercise is being used to get rid of what is, especially if there was some sort of relief felt whilst doing it or after. Thought is a tricky little bugger as you know and it will go around in circles every chance it gets – boom - straight back into concept again.
And with resistance – watch story trying to attach to that as well – I shouldn’t be, this shouldn’t be, etc….. blah, blah, blah….. what would mind resistance being there!

Ahhhh. OK. I do see what you mean, and this definitely needs watching. My thoughts seem to have taken an advanced course in being tricky little buggers!!! They eat concepts for breakfast!! And of course, the I-thought, once again, would mind resistance showing up. The "relief" I expressed in relation to the exercise was mainly related to realizing just how much resistance is in play - having a nice "label" for what's going on! LOL.

Best,

Emily

Hey Emily

and in those times some clarity peeps through, and a real sense of peacefulness and "things just happening" emerges.

Lovely. See how often you spot this. Look through your day - is it always there?

It is always there, but often thought is in the foreground doing a bit of distraction. But I see that that is OK too.

OK – so moving this on a little bit more have a look when the migraine shows signs of starting. Is it still there?

Ahhhh. OK. I do see what you mean, and this definitely needs watching. My thoughts seem to have taken an advanced course in being tricky little buggers!!! They eat concepts for breakfast!! And of course, the I-thought, once again, would mind resistance showing up. The "relief" I expressed in relation to the exercise was mainly related to realizing just how much resistance is in play - having a nice "label" for what's going on! LOL.

Hahaaha. Labels are ok in their place – but the finger pointing is not the moon. Just notice.
Hugs Sarah xxx

Hi Sarah,

OK – so moving this on a little bit more have a look when the migraine shows signs of starting. Is it still there?

Yes, the underlying quietness is always there. It's usually after several hours, when the migraines get really intense that I have, in the past, lost sight of what is calm underneath. I think the exercise you provided will be helpful with this.

Labels are ok in their place – but the finger pointing is not the moon. Just notice.

Thank you, Sarah. Lots of looking and noticing going on here.

:-)

Emily

Hi Emily

Yes, the underlying quietness is always there. It's usually after several hours, when the migraines get really intense that I have, in the past, lost sight of what is calm underneath. I think the exercise you provided will be helpful with this.

OK – so tentatively asking you to look should the occasion arise!

So – a little checking exercise!
Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?
Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?
Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?
Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?
Is there doubt or un-clarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?
Hugs Sarah xxx

Hello Sarah,

OK – so tentatively asking you to look should the occasion arise!

Thank you, I will definitely do so. :-)

So – a little checking exercise!
Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

No, I see now and know now that there is NO separate experiencer or doer. No one who can control what happens or make decisions or do the thinking!! Just LIFE flowing along.

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

I never thought of body in those specific terms, but yes, "body" is just another thought label for sensations!!

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

No separate self is there to "cause" anything or experience anything! Senses just happen. Everything just happens exactly as it must.

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

No - no separation exists. It is all one beingness.

Is there doubt or un-clarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

No, I see now that the "self" is a complete mental fabrication!!! Amazing.

And, Sarah, I cannot thank you enough for your patience, kindness and generosity in pointing, and pointing, and making these things clear.

Love and Hugs,

Emily

Hey Emily
So – how are you feeling? What is being noticed?
Anymore questions – anything you wish to look at? Is seeking still happening?
Hugs Sarah xxx

Darling Sarah,

So – how are you feeling? What is being noticed?
Anymore questions – anything you wish to look at? Is seeking still happening?

Thank you, Sarah, I am feeling the same as always, but there is much more noticing of thoughts and sensations happening by themselves, and the knowing that thoughts and stories do not make up any separate "self." There is a lot of noticing going on, rather than seeking. Things are being taken less "seriously," and the former feeling of "heaviness" has lifted. The many things discussed are being remembered and continue to "soak in" more deeply. ;-) If any more wobblies get thrown, they will simply be noticed. LOL

I don't really have any more questions, only the wish to express sincere gratitude for your guidance and patience.

Unless you feel otherwise, i believe we can close this thread, and I'll simply say THANK YOU again and again, and wish you a very beautiful holiday season!!!

Love and Deep Appreciation,

Emily

Lovely Emily

Thank you, Sarah, I am feeling the same as always, but there is much more noticing of thoughts and sensations happening by themselves, and the knowing that thoughts and stories do not make up any separate "self." There is a lot of noticing going on, rather than seeking. Things are being taken less "seriously," and the former feeling of "heaviness" has lifted. The many things discussed are being remembered and continue to "soak in" more deeply. ;-) If any more wobblies get thrown, they will simply be noticed. LOL

I have pm’d you!

I have some final questions for you, if you would like to answer that is. I will show these to the other guides to check over – just to see if there is anything I have missed. If you would like to have a go please answer as fully as you see fit – no rush.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?
Love and hugs Sarah xxxx

Hey Emily
Just discovered I cant pm you!!!!! as you have disabled your message receiving service! LOL. Can you/would you re-install it please????? I would like to invite you to join our facebook groups!

I have posted above just in case you haven't seen it! :)
Lots of love Sarah xxxx

Hi Sarah,

Tried to re-enable the PM function, and sent you two PMs (same one), but I'm not sure they actually SENT to you, as they appear to still be in my Outbox. Not sure why, as I did SUBMIT them. Let me know if you did receive the PMs. I will reply later (via the forum) to your detailed questions.

xxx,

Emily

Precious Sarah,

I'm trying to answer as well as I can, and am happy to answer anything you wish to ask, and also delighted to continue these exchanges if you feel it's appropriate!

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Here is the current perspective: I KNOW there is no separate "self" at all, and that there never was, I KNOW this, but honestly, I cannot say that I FEEL that the sense of a "self" has actually disappeared or does not still pop up regularly - yet I'm aware that this "self" is not REAL, and I feel that the awareness is deepening. So, in any shape or form? A sense of "self" does seem to still be there, to be 100% honest. But again, I do KNOW that it's not real, and this allows me to remind myself of the truth over and over as various situations arise.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is the perception that there is a separate entity which personally sees, hears, feels emotions and sensations, etc., and therefrom makes choices/decision and controls "life." The separate self starts up based up an identifying "I-thought" which continually takes false ownership of whatever "happens." The labeling and attachment of the "I-thought" to all experiences and sensations creates and perpetuates the illusory sense of an individual experiencer/controller/life participant. Now, I know that the separate self is truly an illusion, though I do still get "caught up" in the illusion at times, and have to remember what is true. (Also, while I understand that there is no "me," there is still a feeling of separation from the people and objects around "me," but I've been assuming that that sense will shift as understanding takes a firmer hold.)

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

There is a relief in seeing this, in KNOWING that all of the thoughts and emotions are not really attached to anything legitimate, and that concept of the "self" need not be taken seriously as anything "real." Before starting the dialogue, there was great frustration and sense of personal heaviness, a feeling of being on the verge of some understanding that was not being accessed. During this dialogue, a greater sense of lightness and less seriousness has emerged, and the KNOWING that there is no actual "self" has created a new perspective that is deepening with each day. Doubts do still emerge, but they are usually seen for what they are.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Ahhh. Now this bit is tricky for me. I still question whether or not anything specific has literally "pushed me over." My lingering concern is that I understand and know these things as one would from reading a book and having the information really "feel" right. (Which may be perfectly OK) I cannot pinpoint any specific trigger or shift. Yet, there is no question that the excellent guidance has deepened awareness, and pointed to what is real, particularly in being pointed to the fact that thoughts and sensations without sticky labels are just things that happen, etc., without belonging to a separate anyone. So, I LOOK every day, but also find a constant need to reinforce the looking and not revert to "I" and "me" beliefs... So is that typical, or am I "teetering on the edge" still, and need to be beaten with a large stick? :-)

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

NO, there is definitely the new knowingness that there is NO individual decision/intention/choice/control in Life, but that Life is living. Period. This is so relaxing and refreshing. NO, "I" do not make anything happen, and formerly, "I" was one of those "I-thoughts" that had a huge and overwhelming sense of responsibility about EVERYTHING. Now it is seen how ludicrous and utterly exhausting (and unnecessary) that perspective has been. But "I' do still slip back into it occasionally, and then remind "myself" of the truth. (No, it is actually not my fault that the pine cone fell on the head of that squirrel across the street... ;-)

6) Anything to add?

Just that if more forum dialogue is appropriate, I definitely welcome any additional interaction. However, at this point, my attitude is to allow things to unfold and "watch" the sneaky "I-thought" as best I can!! Being somewhat of a hermit, (LOL) I am NOT one for FACEBOOK involvement at all, but have already purchased the new LU book "LOOK," and am excited about reading it and reviewing the additional wisdom/pointers. Other than that, my desire to continue reading non-duality, etc., has definitely waned. So LOOKING is, I think, replacing any tendency to seek.

Much love,

Emily

Hi Emily
Just a few things I want to explore some more if thats ok!

Here is the current perspective: I KNOW there is no separate "self" at all, and that there never was, I KNOW this, but honestly, I cannot say that I FEEL that the sense of a "self" has actually disappeared or does not still pop up regularly - yet I'm aware that this "self" is not REAL,

Can you actually detect what that sense of self is made up of now? Can you see it?
What would expect this feeling to disappear?
How do you ‘know’ it isn’t real?

(Also, while I understand that there is no "me," there is still a feeling of separation from the people and objects around "me," but I've been assuming that that sense will shift as understanding takes a firmer hold.)

Can you pinpoint this feeling here? Can you see what this one is made up of?

Ahhh. Now this bit is tricky for me. I still question whether or not anything specific has literally "pushed me over." My lingering concern is that I understand and know these things as one would from reading a book and having the information really "feel" right. (Which may be perfectly OK) I cannot pinpoint any specific trigger or shift. Yet, there is no question that the excellent guidance has deepened awareness,

Has there been a shift here? Is there a difference between now and before?

Just that if more forum dialogue is appropriate, I definitely welcome any additional interaction. However, at this point, my attitude is to allow things to unfold and "watch" the sneaky "I-thought" as best I can!! Being somewhat of a hermit, (LOL) I am NOT one for FACEBOOK involvement at all, but have already purchased the new LU book "LOOK," and am excited about reading it and reviewing the additional wisdom/pointers. Other than that, my desire to continue reading non-duality, etc., has definitely waned. So LOOKING is, I think, replacing any tendency to seek.

Is seeking still happening? Is there a ‘wanting’ of something else? What is that made up of?
Big hugs Sarah xxx