The Gate

Hi Angelika!
your Italian statement made laugh so much :)

Coming to the questions and the inquiry.

Have you tried this?
Look at a tree, using direct experience.

Who is seeing? What is seen? :)

It feels like a movie, there is just seeing, nobody is seeing. I find also difficult to focus on one single object it seems I am more aware of everything.

What is seen is more elusive as a question...I would say I am not seeing anything, it is just something appearing in the awareness.

What happens when non of these things are added to an rising pain, when the pain is observed in direct experience?

When experienced directly the sensation fades away with time and it has an inherent beauty (nothing morbid I think :) ), like it is part of the experience and it is good to have the whole spectrum of experiences.
When you add some thoughts it is reinforced with every thought and it becomes more solid.

Void = Emptyness?

Yep I am meaning emptyness.

Now, that you have seen all this, please look and investigate, if there is any place, anything, any realm, a separate, solid self does reside in?

A separate body exists and also a (maybe) unique personality exists as a running software. It is defined by belief structures with arising thoughts and emotions.
Apart from that a controller prior to the thoughts and personality does not exists. Prior to them there is just emptyness.
We are in this sense ever-changing biological puppets, where every string triggers a reaction but the reaction can change the reaction itself of the other reactions, since personality
changes along with experience. Also this inquiry is rewiring my personality.
I feel also that since I think, in the sense since I am alive there will be identification with the personality because without it there wouldn't be anything of this, nor inquiry, nor understanding, anything, but there is also the awareness of being just a personality. It is like not believing in anything you think, feel, because you know that you are just a character.
Lots of strange sensations in the forehead and in the abdomen while inquiring about this.
But I cannot say the sense of self is completely gone...it seems like to be a thought still triggering sensations in the body, in particular like a tension in the left shoulder and left side of the neck.
Also thoughts about not being capable of ending all this arise, but with a sort of counter thought saying "they are just thoughts from this personality, there is no truth".
The more I inquire the more this I-sense seems to fade but maybe I have to digest the whole thing a little...I don't know...
I am experiencing again anxiety and fear...because it is seeing and trying to accept that everythin I ever believe to be is false.
It is like being dead but alive at the same time. Alive because I am, but dead because there is no separate me, no Lorenzo entity just a mind/body organism.

How about awareness? Does a solid, separate self reside in awareness?

Awareness seems to be completely impersonal but in a certain sense associated to me, to this body/mind organism. I don't know if it is a sense of self or just something normal, since it seems to be my awareness, different from yours.
Maybe they are exactly the same since there are no attributes associated to awareness but I cannot share or access others organisms' awareness.
It seems to be the infinite emptyness behind everything else...in which everything arises.
The awareness seems to be the only real and not changing thing. With "real" I mean not influenced, not belonging to the character and independent from everything else.

Good Morning, Lorenzo :)

Very good, that you noticed this, great investigation!

But I cannot say the sense of self is completely gone...it seems like to be a thought still triggering sensations in the body, in particular like a tension in the left shoulder and left side of the neck.

Sense of self arises, abides for a while and passes away again. :)

..... identification with the personality

Identification appears, abides for a while and passes away again. :)

• Here is an exercise for advanced looking:
  
  As long as there is identification with anything arising, there is still an apparent center, an apparent knower perhaps :) a sense of self, simply due to being still bound by the conventional conditioned mind.
  
  Throughout the day, please notice any time you become aware of any identification arising.
  Just give it a one word note "identification" and focus your attention on this particular arising.
  What happens to identification as you observe it?
  Please report what was directly experienced.

I am experiencing again anxiety and fear...because it is seeing and trying to accept that everythin I ever believe to be is false.

The arising of fear and anxiety can happen.

• Anxiety and fear arise due to preceded worry (= regret, remorse, or "let´s add a little suffering to what is")
  When anxiety or fear are noticed, sit with it, give it a little one word note, "anxiety" or "fear" and look directly at it.
  What does it feel like?
  Does it change while being carefully observed?
  Where does it start, where does it end?
  Please report what was directly experienced.

Thank you! :)

Awareness seems to be completely impersonal

• Was this seen directly?

..... but in a certain sense associated to me, to this body/mind organism. I don't know if it is a sense of self or just something normal, since it seems to be my awareness, different from yours.
It seems to be the infinite emptyness behind everything else...in which everything arises.
The awareness seems to be the only real and not changing thing. With "real" I mean not influenced, not belonging to the character and independent from everything else.

• Awareness (consciousness) is not a thing that exists, but an event that arises. :)
  
  Awareness arises together with any sort of stimulus, and is noticed in the cognizing faculty, in the ability of knowing, called "mind".
  
  Please sit with this for a while and observe it.
  Can you see this?
  
  And then please move on to the following exploration:
  
  Please look for the mind itself.
  Can you see it?
  Can you taste it?
  Can you locate it?
  Can you touch it?
  
  Please take your time for this exploration.
  Sit with the questions, look directly and report what was noticed, what was seen in direct experience.

Thank you very much! :)

Hi Angelika! :)

Awareness (consciousness) is not a thing that exists, but an event that arises. :)

Awareness arises together with any sort of stimulus, and is noticed in the cognizing faculty, in the ability of knowing, called "mind".

Please sit with this for a while and observe it.
Can you see this?

Ok, basically I was making confusion...I think because all of the reading about advaita and nonduality I have done in the past.
Awareness does not need again an I, just a brain/body.
I would define it like catching a stimulus. There is awareness which arises with a stimulus and there can also be a stimulus without awareness.
One can argue philosophically about this...I mean is there a stimulus if you are not aware of it?
But let's say a stimulus exists below the sensitivity threshold of the senses or it is filtered away by the brain, in this case there is a stimulus but no awareness of it.
Or if a stimulus is prolonged it seems to get integrated as "normal" so the awareness of it fades away.
Also awareness is directed by thoughts/personality/built-in body mechanisms. I mean you notice a particular stimulus or after a thought telling to focus or because some personality traits are wired to do so.
For example an hypochondriac type of person will be more prone to be aware of possible physical symptoms. Awareness it is part of everyone's unique experience.
At first there was a friction sensation in the mind, and after a releasing sensation in the abdomen.
After a series of releasing movement I have been left with a falling/nausea sensation for a while I had to walk slower like I was experiencing seasickness.

What I was calling awareness yesterday and it was my mistake is the emptyness which seems to be underneath everything.
It is emptyness but it seems to be alive, it is not non-existance or dead stuff.

Please look for the mind itself.
Can you see it?
Can you taste it?
Can you locate it?
Can you touch it?

Inquiring about the mind seems to trigger sensations in the head like it is located there.
Mind is again a label attached to different processes, to some real things. There is openness in the head and a contraction at the stomach/heart level while inquiring about this.
At least to me it seems to be just a conceptual label, I mean it is not deeply rooted.
I would say that what is called mind are some brain mechanisms...first the capability of creating models of reality (the knowing you were talking about, and we are not so much aware of this mechanism) and the capability to use this
models, which are completely arbitrary, to generate thoughts and behavior to navigate life (this can be seen in action everytime). It seems to be mainly a protective mechanism
like trying to outwitting life in a sort of continous chess game :)
So being the brain a part of the body, nothing called mind exists but just a living body.
Seeing this seems to move the awareness more to the body as a living and auto-managed organism.

Except from the sensation triggered of consecutive tension and release in the abdomen, and the last part of seeing ust the existance of the body, lots of this felt like philosophical speculation...It felt like compulsory looking at something not existing and finding some meaning for it.

Hi Angelika!
I have to add a couple of things...it seems I am experiencing a flood of words about this inquiry... sorry for the big amount of words you'll have to read.

Talking about awareness...there is no me to be aware nor a me that drive awareness.
It is just a mechanism of the brain and it works exactly as movements...the will to focus on something arises, maybe because of a thought or of a personality trait
and awareness focuses on a certain stimulus. It seems to be a navigation system to gain more information among the infinite number of stimuli (inner and outer are the same).
The gathered information are used by the brain to create new models or to take decisions or updating the software I would say...which is exactly what is happening here with this inquiry.

Moreover, believing in the existence of a me is a twisted part of the software running on the organism...there is body which can experience pain, I mean objective pain and experience
sensations according to the software running in the brain (personality)...these sensations are used to navigate the world and life.
It is like being a boat with a unique trajectory and a unique goal. The commander (the brain) it is going to use different segnals and different interpretations of signals
compared to other boats and commanders.

While I was seeing all this I started to ask myself "so what is except the character? Who am I?" and I felt the emptyness...it is like being alive but being shut down at the same time
even if everything is working perfectly...I mean the character, the brain noticed all this while it was happening.
The body started to shake then there was a burst of energy and after a subtle fear...Then I come back and tha emptyness couldn't be seen clearly anymore but I think I can access it.
Emptyness seems to be before awareness, before everything else.

Good Morning, Lorenzo!

Thank you for your precise documentation of the inquiry.

Awareness does not need again an I, just a brain/body.

Yes, and the body should be "alive." A corpse cannot smell a scent of a beautiful blossom. :)

I would define it like catching a stimulus. There is awareness which arises with a stimulus and there can also be a stimulus without awareness.

Anything we cannot experience directly, happens to be called speculation. :)

• As a little exercise:
  Please sit, look around and notice, if you can find any stimulus which does not arise together with awareness.
  Please take your time for this exploration.
  Thank you. :)

May I invite you to have an in-depth conversation on the features of a brain ( + mind/ body organism) after we have finished this exchange, simply because it would go beyond the scope of the LU forum. Thank you. :)

At first there was a friction sensation in the mind, and after a releasing sensation in the abdomen.
After a series of releasing movement I have been left with a falling/nausea sensation for a while I had to walk slower like I was experiencing seasickness.

Yes, this can happen. Just relax and be kind to yourself.

What I was calling awareness yesterday and it was my mistake is the emptyness which seems to be underneath everything.
It is emptyness but it seems to be alive, it is not non-existance or dead stuff.

Thank you for the clarification!

nothing called mind exists

Yes :)

It felt like compulsory looking at something not existing and finding some meaning for it.

Yes. The moment of not - finding reveals the mind´s empty, selfless nature.

• Have you seen this clearly?

.....there is no me to be aware nor a me that drive awareness.

• Was this seen clearly?

The commander (the brain) it is going to use different segnals and different interpretations of signals
compared to other boats and commanders.

• Just to be absolutely clear here on this; Is there any sort of solid center (aka self) to be found in the brain or elsewhere in the body?

While I was seeing all this I started to ask myself "so what is except the character? Who am I?" and I felt the emptyness...it is like being alive but being shut down at the same time
even if everything is working perfectly...I mean the character, the brain noticed all this while it was happening.
The body started to shake then there was a burst of energy and after a subtle fear...Then I come back and tha emptyness couldn't be seen clearly anymore but I think I can access it.

• Very good observation. Are you perhaps able to tell if this was the arising of a realization, followed by an arising of an episode of fear?
  
  And while this sequence of arisings was noticed, was there a noticer or only noticing?

Cordialità!

:)

Hi Angelika!
Thank you for all the comments and the time to read everything :)

Anything we cannot experience directly, happens to be called speculation. :)

What I mean is that for example if a fly is posing on a finger side, maybe the sensors' sensitivity is not fine enough to perceive and be aware of the stimulus, which is actually happening.

May I invite you to have an in-depth conversation on the features of a brain ( + mind/ body organism) after we have finished this exchange, simply because it would go beyond the scope of the LU forum. Thank you. :)

It would be a pleasure :)

Yes. The moment of not - finding reveals the mind´s empty, selfless nature.

Have you seen this clearly?

I would say yes, but I also think that for me the mind concept was not particularly strong.

Was this seen clearly?

Yes it is seen clearer and clearer expecially while inquiring about this. I normally fall back into "i am the controller of the awareness" mode, and I have to remind myself that it is not true and see it again.
Doing it over and over seems to slowly dissolve the question.

Just to be absolutely clear here on this; Is there any sort of solid center (aka self) to be found in the brain or elsewhere in the body?

The same as the question before it seems I have to see it over and over and to remind it to myself, making it become clearer and clearer.
It seems that every time I inquiry and see how things actually are, the center dissolves more and more...

Very good observation. Are you perhaps able to tell if this was the arising of a realization, followed by an arising of an episode of fear?

cannot say it for sure...it was more like relaxing into the emptyness. There was a ah-ah part, which sounds like something like "oh maybe that's what I really am, because everything else seems to belongs to the organism and go by itself".
I think something has changed after this episode, like the I, intended as identification with a contoller, with an eneity doing things, is back but weakened in some way.
I also noticed that the strongest identification I have is in social situations, like experiencing suffering for anticipation of people judgments.
In these cases I have to remind myself "All this has no truth...there is nobody to experience it, just a body" and see it again and again.

And while this sequence of arisings was noticed, was there a noticer or only noticing?

It is hard to answer...I mean there was all the noticing and razionalization about it, I mean the brain was working and trying to sort the thing out, but I cannot say if there was identification with it or not.
I mean if a noticer was noticing or there was just noticing.

Good afternoon Lorenzo! :)

Very fine work!

This morning we were on a hiking trip and this is why I answer now only. :)

It is hard to answer...I mean there was all the noticing and razionalization about it, I mean the brain was working and trying to sort the thing out, but I cannot say if there was identification with it or not.
I mean if a noticer was noticing or there was just noticing.

• Please clarify on this; Is the noticer any sort of solid center, any sort of entity, or by nature an illusionary appearance ?
  
  * illusion: Something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality.

Have you seen through the illusion of a separate self and are you ready to answer the final questions?

:)

Hi Angelika!
Sorry I was out the whole day so I will surely need an another day to anwer.
Surely I noticed that I still have a solid center in the thought process...I mean in the thinker so I
would like to inquire more deeply also about it.

Do you agree?

Thanks

Is the noticer any sort of solid center, any sort of entity, or by nature an illusionary appearance ?

No, there is no center in the noticer. Thinking about this made understand what has changed in the last days.
I was confused because I felt something was missing but I couldn't understand what exactly.
Now I see it, there is no more solid center behind the noticer.

As far as thoughts are concerned.
I have seen now that basically thoughts arise because of other thoughts.
I mean usually one thought arises from some reason and from that other thoughts arise in a sort of chain according to personality. This chain is completely autonomous and shape in some way the life experience, since it is what (together with emotions) set goals and target for the organism.
I would say that this is the operating system, the software of the organism, and it is unique.
I see that the misconception is that we believe we are the operating system and its processes. Instead the I-process is just a running process of this software, simply there because of a belief programmed at a certain point of this organism existence. This is equal to all other processes and arbitrary as all the other beliefs.
I see also that (hope not to be too much philophical at this point) that there is no alternative, I mean everytime the organism do something, write these lines, thinking this things, talking, it is always the operating system. Also this inquiry is the operating system reprogramming itself to understand that is is just an operating system.
This is, I believe, the answer of what I asked you, if there is a way to be authentic...the software, the personality is authentic once the lie of being a separate self is removed.
The software that knows to just a software is authentic.

If I look for a solid self I would say that now it is fleeting and intermittent, it appears then dissolve, then appears again and dissolves.

I don't know what else I have to see. If you think I am ready, maybe we can go with the last question :)

By the way enjoy your sunday :)

Good Morning, Lorenzo! :)

Very well!

Are you ready to read and answer the final questions?

With warm greetings,

Angelika

May you, too enjoy this Sunday! :)

Are you ready to read and answer the final questions?

Yes I think so, it would be the further step from here so, Yes go!

Here are the "final" questions:

Please take your time and answer each one of the following questions as precisely as possible, with an emphasis on reporting from direct experience.

Thank you very much! :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

All the best and enjoy! :)

Ok, I think it will take a little so if you see no aswer for tomorrow don't worry :)
I'll do my best to aswer in two days.

Hi Angelika.
I've been faster then I thought, I am again victim of a flood of words :)

Here are the answers to every question. Please ask further details or examples if something is not clear to you.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. There is a separate organism. The organism is separated from a relative point of view but it is part of life (more in answer 5 about this).
Inside of the body there is a brain and the brain has a running operating system, like a software (I will use the software analogy from now on).
This software runs the body by itself. This software comprises genetic traits, all the conditioning gained during life and some built-in (innate) mechanisms.
Thoughts arise (according to the software programming) emotion arises in the body and a decision is taken according to these stimuli.
According to the decision taken a target is set and the body acts. Prior to that there is just emptyness. There is no I controlling the process nor there has ever been.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The existance of the self is just a program of the software of the organism. I could say that at a certain point of the organism life, since everyone around has this programming, this belief of I-existance is created. Everyone threat the organism as it had a separate I and everyone model around act as he/she had it. From that point on the thought "I have done this, I have thoght that, I have controlled that" arises, but just when awareness is directed toward that.
What I mean is that lots of everyday activities are run by themselves without I-existance (this is another proof of the falseness of the self). They I existance is just taken for granted as any other beliefs.
I/me is a thought arising after the other thoughts, basically it works like this:
a thought arises setting an intention -> the action is done -> the "I have done that" label arises as a thought. This gives the illusion to be a controller of your own experience, the illusion that you have decisions to take. In relity it is worse (in a good sense) than in the movie "Trueman Show". What I mean is that not only there is no control in what happens around you, but also no control in you...In reality you are a dynamic character in the game of life with a dynamic role defined by traits influenced by life itself. Life is controlling everything.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels strange because it is the same but different at the same time. I mean everything is experienced in the same way, the same thoughts, the same emotions in this sense nothing has changed.
The difference is they are nobody's. Emotions are just sensations in the body and thoughts are not believed...It is like not taking myself seriously anymore.
The software is still running since there is life in this organism but there is the knowledge to be an arbitrary software equivalent to all the other softwares of other organisms.
The emptyness behind everything seems also to be accessible at will. By will I mean by personality will. Since everything arises from that, from the programming and from the body will to survive. Now the personality knows to be just a personality. The character knows to be just a character. It seems also harder to be shaken by something because there is acceptance of what life presents in front of me as a part of the experience. Everything, even what others may judge bad or not good it appears now thrilling and exciting in some ways. Like "let's see where this will lead". There is also a certain shift in conscience but it is hard to explain, like to reside in a smooth awareness state. I can try to elaborate further on this if you want but by now it is difficult, since it is quite new.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The last bit has been seeing that actions/intentions/awareness are not controlled by anybody or sometimes by the inception of a thought. That thought arises, without the possibility to be be controlled, there is nothing before tha thought, just other thoughts or emptyness. Every single thought origin can be tracked down as a part of a thoughts chain whch started at its very beginning from a thought arising from emtpyness.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

That's complicated ahahah
Decision is taken accordingly to thoughts arising from emptyness, so actually there is nobody to take decisions.
Decision is an illusion, I mean the software takes decisions according to the analysis of the context, its programming background and also emotions. Since they all belongs to the programming
at the end we can say that the decision taken is forced in some way and that no decision is taken actually.
Intention arises from stimuli (both from the body and from the world) that triggers thoughts. These thoughts are generated according to the personality.
Here is a simple example. I have a nerdy personality, I like computer games and The Lord of the Rings, I see the advertising of a new computer game about The Lord of The Rings the thought "I would love to have this" arises. From that points all the actions are taken to have the game. Everything works like that from the most important to the most "stupid" intentions.
Free will is a nonsense since everything runs by itself. Let's take for example all this path I've been into.
At a certain point I realized that everything I believed about me wasn't true, I had no certainties about me. This has been noticed because of some personality trait and personal circumstances at the time (so no choice about it). Then I started looking about books and I found Jed McKenna's Damnedest. I read it and it triggered the fever for this enlightenment stuff (again no choice the reaction triggered depended upon my unique personality and circumstances). Then all the path till now...every choices depended upon the personality and the stimuli (which changed during the experience and the path itself). I would also add than when the software has to make a decision also the choices seen are dependant on the personality...moreover we can hypotize than some personality traits are genetically inherited for example as basic running software so where is the free will?
Everything seems to be a dance, everything is interwoven, situations bringing stimuli, thoughts and actions arises in response bringing actions and other situations. About the aim of all this I would say just the experience, thats how and why things happen.
Responability is another nonsense. Who is responsible? I will use a grim example. I was reading some days ago, completely by chance, Ed Gein's biography. He was one of the worst and most cruel serial killers of history. While reading is story you can see the perfection, you can see that everything in his personality (especially genetic traits) was perfectly taylored for that particular life experience...so how one can judge? How one can say he was responsible for it? He wasn't nobody, there was nobody to own or control that particular personality.
This does not give the the right do to everything, since with this understandng arises a huge sense of respect...respect for everyone, everyone's experience is equally important and perfect as it is, everyone beliefs, we work all in the same way and we are perfect as we are. Hate is also impossible since hate/love in everyday sense are just something belonging to the software running on the organism, in this sense knowing to be just a software makes very hard hurting the others.

6) Anything to add?

I would like to add that right now seems difficult to see and understand what remains when everything has been removed. I mean that empptyness which seems to be empty but alive. Maybe it is because there is still a remaining sense of "I must be something" but it is again illusive. I mean there can be no I in that emptyness.

PLUS I would like to add a big thanks :) :)