Need a guide please

[Vivien]

Dear Tom,

Thank you for letting me know.

Vivien

[thompson7]

Hi Vivian,

REALLY? Are you sure about this?

How is this known that awareness is just aware?
Does awareness (subject) ‘doing’ aware-ing of sensations, thoughts (object)?
Or awareness is just another mental label attached to the experience?
Is there REALLY an awareness ‘doing’ aware-ing, or there is ONLY aware-ing?

Its not really known as any "idea" of it is just another thought, its just there.
Nothing is really doing the awareness. Theres no effort, its a passive thing (if it can be thought of as a thing- which is again more thoughts. So no really).
There is nothing evident to say anything is in control. Awareness happens by itself. Any idea of control is just that, an idea.

How all of this is known?

Through thoughts. Something happens and there is memory of it.

So, awareness is a subject to which things (objects) could be presented?
Is there a subject (awareness, consciousness, I, me, self, a ‘thing’) of any kind in the actual experience?

Don’t think about the answer, but look. This is just intellectual information learned from readings/teachers.
But is this REALLY the actual experience?

There is nothing that any of the information is presented to. The experience happens and then moves along to another one.

How is this known?

Its not known, its the lack of evidence, as there is nothing to "know" when directly looking (as in resorting to thoughts or memory) that leads to this. The physical stimulus itself is not enough to feel a full chair or a body. Without resorting to imagination I cant fully tell that the chair or body is entirely there.

How all of this is known?

You wrote later: “The mind is experienced by no senses, it is another thought.”

So, how can the ‘mind’ be in the experience (barely or not barely)?
If the ‘mind’ is just another thought then how can it throw up ideas?
Can a thought do anything?
Is the ‘mind’ a ‘thing’ with volition?

No, the mind is another label for numerous functions of the body. There is the experience, and then the thought of it and stuff being "presented to the mind" afterwards, to try and break down the experience into words ands concepts.
Ideas just happen, the mind as a label afterwards.
Thoughts come and go, thats about it.
There is no mind to make the decision, no decision is made. Things just occur.

Love Tom

[Vivien]

Dear Tom,

When it is clearly seen that there has never been a self, as a next step, there are further six questions to ask as part of this guiding process. The response is then shared with other guides. They may or may not have further questions.

Once it is confirmed by other guides that seeing through the illusion of the self has happened, our conversation in this thread will come to an end, however you won’t be left alone. There is a whole community of others on FB, who have also seen through the ‘self’. Actually, there are several groups to join.

Is there a 'you' that started this investigation?
Has there ever been a 'you' doing anything?

Is there an 'I' of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
Do others have responsibilities?

Are you ready for the six questions?

Love, Vivien

[thompson7]

Hi Vivian,

Is there a 'you' that started this investigation?
Has there ever been a 'you' doing anything?

The "me" that started this process was, and sometimes still is, a dream. Also, nothing was started, it happened. (and very nice it was of you to help - if that could possibly sit next to a sentence in the previous context!). All the ideas of an investigation and a process evaporated when it was seen that there is no self.
Everything has always happened with no "control" from anything. A volcano dosent have to think "ooh.. I better erupt at 6, so much lava" there is just the eruption or not. No "me"

Is there an 'I' of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
Do others have responsibilities?

The only "I" that exists is imaginary. There are numerous responses to things throughout the day but these are not controlled or directed. Just happening. In that sense no one is actually there to do the doing of anything and are not responsible.

Are you ready for the six questions?

Yes please

Tom

[thompson7]

should have used quotes in the middle there, whoops!

tom

[Vivien]

Dear Tom,

So here are the questions. Please answer as clearly as possible and with as much detail as needed. Don’t forget to add everyday examples from your experience for question 5.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love, Vivien

[thompson7]

Hi Vivian,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no self , no tom actually there. This is a label applied to me by others and myself. There was never an "I", just a previous very strong belief in these labels. Previously when contemplating no self, fear would come up. But when seeing the self was never actually there this vanished as nothing changed! - it had always been this way.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The sense of self is an attachment to what you personally define to be "you". Be it the thoughts and emotions or body or soul or whatever. The idea you are attached to is less of a problem than the attachment itself.
The sense of self is a useful tool for communication. I think this is its original purpose. It seems to begin when very young. As you grow, more and more ideas and opinions are taken on board and believed in. Culture maximises on this belief and you are bombarded with numerous items of media that ask that you form "an opinion". That you compare with others and "find you place in the world". Everything acts like you exist so you take it for granted with little to no attempts to verify.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Existance feels mostly the same - except the confusion I experianced tastes a lot more like wonder now. The sensation that I need to figure something out, that there is even something to be figured out, is gone. Before I would "meditate" and read books about such subjects when I got home from work to feel that I was progressing. This has come to a standstill. This is mostly because the "meditation" I was doing was just fantasizing, and the reading pretty much was as well. Now more and more time throughout the day is spent just looking at how things are.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Initially I struggled with it. I was looking and looking and nothing came. Then It dawned on me that the Idea of me finding something was the only thing there - so I stopped. And there was nothing there to do the holding on anymore. I laughed, its like I was eating something I didnt like and asking that it turn into something nice instead of just spitting it out.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

I do not see the entire process of all of these, but I can defiantly say that Decisions occur - they are not made. I do not think about what Im gonna think about. Actions occur and then people feel good or bad about them, try to claim them or deny them but they are not created by them.
In fact most of the words asked about are pretty interchangeable and I can find little basis for any of them.
Intent is fictional, things I say and do are responses to stimulus, not planned out. And nothing I have ever planned has gone as expected.
Free will again the same, I dont plan my thoughts in advance. If im hungry this is a biological response, in fact most daily activity is driven by bodily function as opposed to an actual desire driven by a "me". So my actions are more like the curtain blowing in the wind, not the curtain lifting itself up. Although I am not an automaton, responses - just there is no central self to drive the choices etc. They just happen.

6) Anything to add?

Yes, I think this process should be a pre-requiset for those wishing to study mysticysm or such stuff (well- it should have been for me). Pretty much all of the instruction I have had was mis-interprited as I viewed it all through the self. I received too much info about what is to be experienced and this was actually quite the obstacle for me. So, Thanks really and keep up the good work - it works!

love Tom

[Vivien]

Hi Tom,

I'm happy to say that the guides are satisfied that you have seen through the illusion of a separate self and none of them has any further questions.

I'm sending you a private message, so please check your inbox.

Love, Vivien