Looking for a guide

[chris lewis]

Hi Chris,

Can you go back to answer the following question:

'Look now and try to see who or what that puppet master actually is and report back with what comes up.'

So I guess if you don't believe the mind, then what? Well, I guess it may be that the sensations may be closer to reality than the mind chatter. The mind tries to control things, take responsibility, but it is the stuff that is actually happening that is more real, and not thoughts about what is happening. The sense organs, the body and mind may all be necessary to perceive reality, but the mind seems to have assumed dominance, and distorted things somehow.

'So I guess if you don't believe the mind, then what?'

What we need to do is get rid of the guessing and just work on Reality without 'imagining'. Let's re-focus on what Direct Experience means: If 'guessing' is happening, then it's the mind that's doing the guessing, it's nothing to do with the actual Direct Experience. The beauty of this process is that perhaps the first time in your life, you're being asked to avoid 'thinking' in a working out sort of way. It can take a little while to get the hang of it - not because it's hard (it's super easy), but it's just never occurred to us that things can be done in a different way than thinking things out.

Please describe experience for Chris right now - no guessing, just as it is.....

So there's just two questions for you to look at here: 1) Who or what is the puppet master and 2) Describe your experience right now with honesty and without any speculation.

Mike :-)

Right now, I can only answer question 2.

You said in another post that if there is a struggle it is the mind "working" on the problem. That is what is happening right now. The mind efforting to understand. It loves that toy and doesn't want to give it up! It literally is like asking a parasite to give up its life. The mind has been throwing a fit since I read your post. Deep down there seems to be an understanding of what is required to truly understand.

This may not be the best answer. But then you get into "pleasing the teacher". Another game I noticed I've been playing.

[chris lewis]

Hi Chris,

Can you go back to answer the following question:

'Look now and try to see who or what that puppet master actually is and report back with what comes up.'

So I guess if you don't believe the mind, then what? Well, I guess it may be that the sensations may be closer to reality than the mind chatter. The mind tries to control things, take responsibility, but it is the stuff that is actually happening that is more real, and not thoughts about what is happening. The sense organs, the body and mind may all be necessary to perceive reality, but the mind seems to have assumed dominance, and distorted things somehow.

'So I guess if you don't believe the mind, then what?'

What we need to do is get rid of the guessing and just work on Reality without 'imagining'. Let's re-focus on what Direct Experience means: If 'guessing' is happening, then it's the mind that's doing the guessing, it's nothing to do with the actual Direct Experience. The beauty of this process is that perhaps the first time in your life, you're being asked to avoid 'thinking' in a working out sort of way. It can take a little while to get the hang of it - not because it's hard (it's super easy), but it's just never occurred to us that things can be done in a different way than thinking things out.

Please describe experience for Chris right now - no guessing, just as it is.....

So there's just two questions for you to look at here: 1) Who or what is the puppet master and 2) Describe your experience right now with honesty and without any speculation.

Mike :-)

Right now, I can only answer question 2.

You said in another post that if there is a struggle it is the mind "working" on the problem. That is what is happening right now. The mind efforting to understand. It loves that toy and doesn't want to give it up! It literally is like asking a parasite to give up its life. The mind has been throwing a fit since I read your post. Deep down there seems to be an understanding of what is required to truly understand.

This may not be the best answer. But then you get into "pleasing the teacher". Another game I noticed I've been playing.

I will go over the posts though, to see what else I may be missing.

[eyeman]

Hi Chris,

Right now, I can only answer question 2. (Relating to what is happening in direct experience right now)

You said in another post that if there is a struggle it is the mind "working" on the problem. That is what is happening right now. The mind efforting to understand. It loves that toy and doesn't want to give it up! It literally is like asking a parasite to give up its life. The mind has been throwing a fit since I read your post. Deep down there seems to be an understanding of what is required to truly understand.

This may not be the best answer. But then you get into "pleasing the teacher". Another game I noticed I've been playing.

You may have read prior to starting this, that the guide will guide you gently along but at times may whack you hard with the Zen Stick... Chris: WAKE UP! The question isn't about the imaginary world of your thoughts - it's about what is REALLY happening beyond any doubt in your experience right now and not what you 'think' about what's happening. 'The mind efforting to understand' - this is just an idea you have (thought content), as is the rest of your response. This is living in your thoughts - an imagined world, but what is REAL right now - beyond doubt in your experience? Is there 'seeing happening', 'sound happening', maybe 'sensory awareness of your heart beating after being whacked with the Zen Stick'?

Now give it another go: Don't think about it or hesitate to answer - just tell me honestly how it really is:

What is happening in your Direct Experience, right here and right now?

Mike :-)

[chris lewis]

Hi Chris,

Right now, I can only answer question 2. (Relating to what is happening in direct experience right now)

You said in another post that if there is a struggle it is the mind "working" on the problem. That is what is happening right now. The mind efforting to understand. It loves that toy and doesn't want to give it up! It literally is like asking a parasite to give up its life. The mind has been throwing a fit since I read your post. Deep down there seems to be an understanding of what is required to truly understand.

This may not be the best answer. But then you get into "pleasing the teacher". Another game I noticed I've been playing.

You may have read prior to starting this, that the guide will guide you gently along but at times may whack you hard with the Zen Stick... Chris: WAKE UP! The question isn't about the imaginary world of your thoughts - it's about what is REALLY happening beyond any doubt in your experience right now and not what you 'think' about what's happening. 'The mind efforting to understand' - this is just an idea you have (thought content), as is the rest of your response. This is living in your thoughts - an imagined world, but what is REAL right now - beyond doubt in your experience? Is there 'seeing happening', 'sound happening', maybe 'sensory awareness of your heart beating after being whacked with the Zen Stick'?

Now give it another go: Don't think about it or hesitate to answer - just tell me honestly how it really is:

What is happening in your Direct Experience, right here and
right now?

Mike :-)[/money
]
Lots of thinking
But also other stuff
Like music and lots of sounds
Sounds of food being prepared
Hand dryer noises
Woman walking by
Guy counting money
People talking
Sensations in my body
Door closing
Other people eating
And on and on...

[eyeman]

Hey Chris...

Mike :-)[/money
]
Lots of thinking
But also other stuff
Like music and lots of sounds
Sounds of food being prepared
Hand dryer noises
Woman walking by
Guy counting money
People talking
Sensations in my body
Door closing
Other people eating
And on and on...

Bang on :-) You're tuning in to the constant stream of 'life happening' rather than seeing life via your thoughts about it. We've already started to see that thoughts ABOUT life will not help to see Reality directly, in fact they will do their best to stop you seeing the truth.

Now please take the above exercise to a deeper level. You are focusing in the right place above but there's some subtle distortion in your perception of Direct Experience. The mind starts to 'separate' this from that, up from down, good from bad, etc... this happens when we begin to label things (at about the age of three). eg: A table is labelled a table, a chair a chair. Incidentally at this time we become 'I', 'Me' or 'Self' as separate from everything else - the label happens and the mind then tends to see the label instead of the actual thing. It's been said that once you label (or name) something, you never again see it how it really is (as though you're seeing it for the first time).

So the exercise now is: What is your direct experience right now without using labels - as though every thing you see, hear, touch etc... is experienced for the first time. Obviously you will need to resort to words (which are labels) here but break it down to the bare experience avoiding anything previously 'learned'. This is the world as it truly is.

Hopefully you'll see here that this is a brutal exercise in finding the TRUTH.

Mike :-)

[chris lewis]

Hey Chris...

Mike :-)[/money
]
Lots of thinking
But also other stuff
Like music and lots of sounds
Sounds of food being prepared
Hand dryer noises
Woman walking by
Guy counting money
People talking
Sensations in my body
Door closing
Other people eating
And on and on...

Bang on :-) You're tuning in to the constant stream of 'life happening' rather than seeing life via your thoughts about it. We've already started to see that thoughts ABOUT life will not help to see Reality directly, in fact they will do their best to stop you seeing the truth.

Now please take the above exercise to a deeper level. You are focusing in the right place above but there's some subtle distortion in your perception of Direct Experience. The mind starts to 'separate' this from that, up from down, good from bad, etc... this happens when we begin to label things (at about the age of three). eg: A table is labelled a table, a chair a chair. Incidentally at this time we become 'I', 'Me' or 'Self' as separate from everything else - the label happens and the mind then tends to see the label instead of the actual thing. It's been said that once you label (or name) something, you never again see it how it really is (as though you're seeing it for the first time).

So the exercise now is: What is your direct experience right now without using labels - as though every thing you see, hear, touch etc... is experienced for the first time. Obviously you will need to resort to words (which are labels) here but break it down to the bare experience avoiding anything previously 'learned'. This is the world as it truly is.

Hopefully you'll see here that this is a brutal exercise in finding the TRUTH.

Mike :-)

There is just "things happening". Almost like a symphony, things coming and going, There is a great variety in the things that are happening, lots of sounds, sensations, tastes, etc, but they come in the present then are gone.

[eyeman]

Hi Chris,

There is just "things happening". Almost like a symphony, things coming and going, There is a great variety I the things that are happening, lots of sounds, sensations, tastes, etc, but they come in the present then are gone.

Yes that's about it - light appears through the eyes in various patterns and colours, noise happens, touch happens etc...

Now for the next exercise:

Look at an object or listen to a sound (any of the senses is ok), look at your direct experience here and now and report back on what happens: Is there a 'seer' seeing, or is there just 'sight' happening. Can any 'seer' or observer be found in your direct experience. Turn to thoughts happening.... Is there a 'thinker' there thinking those thoughts or do thoughts just happen and there is awareness of them. This brings us in a roundabout way to your question of 'who or what is the puppet master'. If there is a seer, thinker, doer - then that is the puppet master, if there isn't, then the puppet master is just a thought, an idea, a concept and nothing more.

Let me know how you get on with the above - hope it makes sense to you :-)

Mike

[chris lewis]

Hi Chris,

There is just "things happening". Almost like a symphony, things coming and going, There is a great variety I the things that are happening, lots of sounds, sensations, tastes, etc, but they come in the present then are gone.

Yes that's about it - light appears through the eyes in various patterns and colours, noise happens, touch happens etc...

Now for the next exercise:

Look at an object or listen to a sound (any of the senses is ok), look at your direct experience here and now and report back on what happens: Is there a 'seer' seeing, or is there just 'sight' happening. Can any 'seer' or observer be found in your direct experience. Turn to thoughts happening.... Is there a 'thinker' there thinking those thoughts or do thoughts just happen and there is awareness of them. This brings us in a roundabout way to your question of 'who or what is the puppet master'. If there is a seer, thinker, doer - then that is the puppet master, if there isn't, then the puppet master is just a thought, an idea, a concept and nothing more.

Let me know how you get on with the above - hope it makes sense to you :-)

Mike

There seems to be just the object and the perception of the object, or thought, but no separate thing you could label "awareness" that is perceiving the object. The object or thought or whatever it is is just somehow there. The moment I look for awareness, all I get are images and thoughts, like the image of a blank screen, and tons of energy and thoughts seeking. But all this is just more stuff happening. No puppet master found, so far.

[eyeman]

Hi Chris.

There seems to be just the object and the perception of the object, or thought, but no separate thing you could label "awareness" that is perceiving the object. The object or thought or whatever it is is just somehow there. The moment I look for awareness, all I get are images and thoughts, like the image of a blank screen, and tons of energy and thoughts seeking. But all this is just more stuff happening. No puppet master found, so far.

This is really nicely put Chris - it sounds like you're making great headway :-)

Let's keep pushing ahead here as you seem to be seeing clearly.

When you look at an object, or hear a sound etc... You are starting to see that the seeing is one and the same as the 'object' that is seen etc...

1) Now try if you can to locate where all 'experience' takes place - this can be hard to put into words but please have a go anyway. This is a big ask here, as in truth, the answer cannot ever be accurately rendered into words - because words are labels and therefore part of duality (The World of Thoughts)

2) Also, you've done extremely well to stay focussed here, and the mind will have thrown up all sorts of arguments against it really being as simple as this, so please do feel free at this point to mention any 'obstacles' the mind may have thrown up to you knowing what we've covered so far to be truth (doubts). If there isn't any real doubt then we can keep pushing forward.

Mike :-)

[chris lewis]

Hi Chris.

There seems to be just the object and the perception of the object, or thought, but no separate thing you could label "awareness" that is perceiving the object. The object or thought or whatever it is is just somehow there. The moment I look for awareness, all I get are images and thoughts, like the image of a blank screen, and tons of energy and thoughts seeking. But all this is just more stuff happening. No puppet master found, so far.

This is really nicely put Chris - it sounds like you're making great headway :-)

Let's keep pushing ahead here as you seem to be seeing clearly.

When you look at an object, or hear a sound etc... You are starting to see that the seeing is one and the same as the 'object' that is seen etc...

1) Now try if you can to locate where all 'experience' takes place - this can be hard to put into words but please have a go anyway. This is a big ask here, as in truth, the answer cannot ever be accurately rendered into words - because words are labels and therefore part of duality (The World of Thoughts)

2) Also, you've done extremely well to stay focussed here, and the mind will have thrown up all sorts of arguments against it really being as simple as this, so please do feel free at this point to mention any 'obstacles' the mind may have thrown up to you knowing what we've covered so far to be truth (doubts). If there isn't any real doubt then we can keep pushing forward.

Mike :-)

It does seem/feel related to the body. In the sense that it is the body that feels things, and it appears to be the centre of an energy field of some kind, or at least related in some way. If the body is cut by a knife, it is the body that seems to feel it, not the knife, even though the knife is part of the experience. Just because you can't believe what the mind tells you about the body doesn't mean it's not important somehow. There appearers to be no location per se to look within the body,

It's funny, not long after the whack with the zen stick you have me, I had a bit of clarity for a few hours. Thanks for that. Unfortunately, the mind came back in to assert full dominance. Now everything is foggy and confusing, with the mind trying to"figure it all out". This kind of thing had happened quite a few times over the past several years. A bit of clarity (relative) and then back to the regular crap. So yes there are tons of doubts, arguments my mind is making. But I know it's part of the game, a trick that my mind is playing.

[eyeman]

Hiya Chris.

It does seem/feel related to the body. In the sense that it is the body that feels things, and it appears to be the centre of an energy field of some kind, or at least related in some way. If the body is cut by a knife, it is the body that seems to feel it, not the knife, even though the knife is part of the experience. Just because you can't believe what the mind tells you about the body doesn't mean it's not important somehow. There appearers to be no location per se to look within the body,

This is a fair observation, as you can see, it's kind of difficult to think of 'location' without thought labels eg: Internal - external, all we can really put into language is that experience happens and it all happens ultimately in the same 'place'. eg: a bell from a nearbye village rings, the mind puts a location onto that experience and we 'see it' as happening perhaps over in a village to our right however, the sound simply happens in 'that place' where all things happen and its only the idea of separation which separates the bell ringing and the sound being experienced 'here' (for want of a better word).

It's funny, not long after the whack with the zen stick you have me, I had a bit of clarity for a few hours. Thanks for that. Unfortunately, the mind came back in to assert full dominance. Now everything is foggy and confusing, with the mind trying to"figure it all out". This kind of thing had happened quite a few times over the past several years. A bit of clarity (relative) and then back to the regular crap. So yes there are tons of doubts, arguments my mind is making. But I know it's part of the game, a trick that my mind is playing.

You've done really well in keeping thoughts at bay so far Chris, however yes as you say, the mind will always challenge and fight back - often with anything it can muster. This is ok, it's just life happening and the mind doing what it does (think of it as a constant commentary on what's happening - with an agenda).

So it will need to be tackled head on at some point - it'll muddy and confuse things as much as possible. So if we now list the main things we've covered so far (the bits that are important), perhaps you can let the mind do it's thing and present any concerns, uncertainties, contradictions etc.... and we can go through these.

1) No past, no future, only right now - this is all that has ever been and all that will ever be.

2) Thoughts happen but the content of those thoughts are not Reality, they are virtual - you cannot ever access reality directly via thoughts 'about' reality.

3) There is no 'chooser' or 'controller', no free-will in the sense that it's normally thought of. Responses happen to conditions eg: If asked a question - an answer comes, if food is needed, there will be a trip to the shops, when oxygen is needed, breathing happens etc...

4) Direct Experience happens through the senses but there is no 'seer', 'hearer', 'toucher', 'taster', 'smeller' and there is no 'thinker' of thoughts which is separate from those experiences happening.

Take as much time as you need on this Chris, please look at these things honestly as you see them now - where there's doubts, mention them - let the mind have its say on this.

All the best

Mike :-)

[chris lewis]

Hiya Chris.

It does seem/feel related to the body. In the sense that it is the body that feels things, and it appears to be the centre of an energy field of some kind, or at least related in some way. If the body is cut by a knife, it is the body that seems to feel it, not the knife, even though the knife is part of the experience. Just because you can't believe what the mind tells you about the body doesn't mean it's not important somehow. There appearers to be no location per se to look within the body,

This is a fair observation, as you can see, it's kind of difficult to think of 'location' without thought labels eg: Internal - external, all we can really put into language is that experience happens and it all happens ultimately in the same 'place'. eg: a bell from a nearbye village rings, the mind puts a location onto that experience and we 'see it' as happening perhaps over in a village to our right however, the sound simply happens in 'that place' where all things happen and its only the idea of separation which separates the bell ringing and the sound being experienced 'here' (for want of a better word).

It's funny, not long after the whack with the zen stick you have me, I had a bit of clarity for a few hours. Thanks for that. Unfortunately, the mind came back in to assert full dominance. Now everything is foggy and confusing, with the mind trying to"figure it all out". This kind of thing had happened quite a few times over the past several years. A bit of clarity (relative) and then back to the regular crap. So yes there are tons of doubts, arguments my mind is making. But I know it's part of the game, a trick that my mind is playing.

You've done really well in keeping thoughts at bay so far Chris, however yes as you say, the mind will always challenge and fight back - often with anything it can muster. This is ok, it's just life happening and the mind doing what it does (think of it as a constant commentary on what's happening - with an agenda).

So it will need to be tackled head on at some point - it'll muddy and confuse things as much as possible. So if we now list the main things we've covered so far (the bits that are important), perhaps you can let the mind do it's thing and present any concerns, uncertainties, contradictions etc.... and we can go through these.

1) No past, no future, only right now - this is all that has ever been and all that will ever be.

2) Thoughts happen but the content of those thoughts are not Reality, they are virtual - you cannot ever access reality directly via thoughts 'about' reality.

3) There is no 'chooser' or 'controller', no free-will in the sense that it's normally thought of. Responses happen to conditions eg: If asked a question - an answer comes, if food is needed, there will be a trip to the shops, when oxygen is needed, breathing happens etc...

4) Direct Experience happens through the senses but there is no 'seer', 'hearer', 'toucher', 'taster', 'smeller' and there is no 'thinker' of thoughts which is separate from those experiences happening.

Take as much time as you need on this Chris, please look at these things honestly as you see them now - where there's doubts, mention them - let the mind have its say on this.

All the best

Mike :-)

I have tried again to see whether the above is true, and it seems to be, just the mind's commentary going "are you sure, I don't know about that" and that kind of thing. The mind is always in doubt about almost everything, it will never be satisfied with its opinions, beliefs, etc. So it cannot be relied upon to interpret truth.

It seems that at some point the arguments have to either stop or be seen as unimportant. It's good to see some of the illusions first hand, but this alone obviously has not changed things day to day. It seems to be out of habit that things pretty much carry on as usual. The status quo remains dominant.

[eyeman]

Hi Chris,

Great, this puts us in a good position to push forward and see through the illusion of 'self' once and for all :-)

I have tried again to see whether the above is true, and it seems to be, just the mind's commentary going "are you sure, I don't know about that" and that kind of thing. The mind is always in doubt about almost everything, it will never be satisfied with its opinions, beliefs, etc. So it cannot be relied upon to interpret truth.

Yes it would be difficult to argue with that - the mind and it's stories are responsible for every moment of suffering 'Chris' has ever experienced.

It seems that at some point the arguments have to either stop or be seen as unimportant. It's good to see some of the illusions first hand, but this alone obviously has not changed things day to day. It seems to be out of habit that things pretty much carry on as usual. The status quo remains dominant.

When the illusion of separate self is seen, real insight happens and this can happen in different ways, it might be seen as a pretty major event - a total WOW! It might be a moment where a light bulb goes on and you just 'get it' and everything makes sense for the first time ever. It might happen without even realising it's happened at first, then a realisation that 'YES! It happened at that specific time'. There are many ways and the way Chris sees, will be unique to Chris - but when insight arises, you will know it and change will happen.

Remember this is a direct seeing of reality, not an intellectual understanding. You have probably 'got it' intellectually a long time ago - this was the case for Mike, but insight (in the Transendental sense), has nothing whatsoever to do with intellectual understanding. It's a point where the very obvious is seen for the first time. A bit like always wanting a Ferrari, since being a child it's the thing you dream of every day - then someone points out that there's a Ferrari shaped object in your living room under a cloth. You look at it and think 'well yes I know that, but I want a Ferrari!' He suggests perhaps taking the cloth off and seeing, to you, this is preposterous - such a silly idea - well if it was that simple, I'd have had a Ferrari all this time, I won't even bother to humour you, so you go to sit down and continue wondering how great it would be to have a Ferrari. This person keeps at it and in total frustration and a bit of anger, you rip the cloth off to prove how ridiculous he is and even though, your mind says - no, don't be a fool, it's obviously not like this - it's too simple, what a fool you'd look believing this silly game, you turn away - then turn back and damn it! It's really there - then you start to think how could I have listened to those thoughts for so many years and believed them when it's been staring me in the face all this time! And when it's so blinking obvious!

This is how it is Chris, it's not mystical, it's not deep or religious (though these things often point to it). It's totally plain, it's just that it never occurred to you to look - no one looks, we all 'know' about the Ferrari shaped objects in our living rooms but no one's ever suggested that there might be a Ferrari under the cloth, it's never occurred to us, it just takes someone else who has 'seen', to point you in the right direction.

So anyway, here's the next question:

What comes up when you read this: There is no separate entity 'self', 'me', 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way shape or form! There never has been! Everything you think you are is just a story, a story made up of thoughts and ideas!

Please describe what comes up in thoughts, feelings etc... as fully as possible.

Mike :-)

[chris lewis]

Hi Chris,

Great, this puts us in a good position to push forward and see through the illusion of 'self' once and for all :-)

I have tried again to see whether the above is true, and it seems to be, just the mind's commentary going "are you sure, I don't know about that" and that kind of thing. The mind is always in doubt about almost everything, it will never be satisfied with its opinions, beliefs, etc. So it cannot be relied upon to interpret truth.

Yes it would be difficult to argue with that - the mind and it's stories are responsible for every moment of suffering 'Chris' has ever experienced.

It seems that at some point the arguments have to either stop or be seen as unimportant. It's good to see some of the illusions first hand, but this alone obviously has not changed things day to day. It seems to be out of habit that things pretty much carry on as usual. The status quo remains dominant.

When the illusion of separate self is seen, real insight happens and this can happen in different ways, it might be seen as a pretty major event - a total WOW! It might be a moment where a light bulb goes on and you just 'get it' and everything makes sense for the first time ever. It might happen without even realising it's happened at first, then a realisation that 'YES! It happened at that specific time'. There are many ways and the way Chris sees, will be unique to Chris - but when insight arises, you will know it and change will happen.

Remember this is a direct seeing of reality, not an intellectual understanding. You have probably 'got it' intellectually a long time ago - this was the case for Mike, but insight (in the Transendental sense), has nothing whatsoever to do with intellectual understanding. It's a point where the very obvious is seen for the first time. A bit like always wanting a Ferrari, since being a child it's the thing you dream of every day - then someone points out that there's a Ferrari shaped object in your living room under a cloth. You look at it and think 'well yes I know that, but I want a Ferrari!' He suggests perhaps taking the cloth off and seeing, to you, this is preposterous - such a silly idea - well if it was that simple, I'd have had a Ferrari all this time, I won't even bother to humour you, so you go to sit down and continue wondering how great it would be to have a Ferrari. This person keeps at it and in total frustration and a bit of anger, you rip the cloth off to prove how ridiculous he is and even though, your mind says - no, don't be a fool, it's obviously not like this - it's too simple, what a fool you'd look believing this silly game, you turn away - then turn back and damn it! It's really there - then you start to think how could I have listened to those thoughts for so many years and believed them when it's been staring me in the face all this time! And when it's so blinking obvious!

This is how it is Chris, it's not mystical, it's not deep or religious (though these things often point to it). It's totally plain, it's just that it never occurred to you to look - no one looks, we all 'know' about the Ferrari shaped objects in our living rooms but no one's ever suggested that there might be a Ferrari under the cloth, it's never occurred to us, it just takes someone else who has 'seen', to point you in the right direction.

So anyway, here's the next question:

What comes up when you read this: There is no separate entity 'self', 'me', 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way shape or form! There never has been! Everything you think you are is just a story, a story made up of thoughts and ideas!

Please describe what comes up in thoughts, feelings etc... as fully as possible.

Mike :-)

Over the past couple of days the mind has been working particularly hard to get me to believe there is a separate entity called me. Lots of frantic thinking. Yet I have been beginning to see that there is no separate entity.

This is so frustrating! The mind is hell bent on making the obvious into some sort of game to figure out. Why does it seem so hard sometimes to just snap out of it? Why can't the mind just give up after its been exposed as a liar? This is what's coming up.

Exhausted from all of this.

[eyeman]

Hi Chris:

Over the past couple of days the mind has been working particularly hard to get me to believe there is a separate entity called me. Lots of frantic thinking. Yet I have been beginning to see that there is no separate entity.

This is so frustrating! The mind is hell bent on making the obvious into some sort of game to figure out. Why does it seem so hard sometimes to just snap out of it? Why can't the mind just give up after its been exposed as a liar? This is what's coming up.

Exhausted from all of this.

The mind will continue to do what it does, you don't need to get too involved in all those thoughts, don't battle them either, Reality is what it is, and reality is that thoughts come and go but when the final pieces click into place, it does become easier and once thoughts are neither clung to nor pushed away, there is a lot of abundant energy - you start to realise how much effort the whole illusion took to hold together!

Right now, avoid battling it out in thought, just keep looking at direct experience and work through this in the simplest of ways:

1) Is there 'self' the body?
2) Is the 'self' the mind?
3) Is the 'self' mind and body?
4) Is the 'self' somewhere else?

Mike :-)