Ready for a guide

[JonathanR]

Hi Tristan,

I think that a self inhabiting a body is part of an illusion, so a self does not inhabit a body.
Still, I would say that thoughts are related to the body, subjective. I understand that this does not mean that thoughts inhabit the body though, as they are nowhere to be found.

OK Good.

Does the body experience sensations and thought?

is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?


Is there a 'doer' that controls various activities such as breathing?

Get up… walk slowly…
is there a controller that controls walking?
or
is there just walking?"

Make a cup of coffee. Is there a 'doer' that 'makes coffee'?
Or is there just making coffee?


About 'choosing'...

Place both hands on a table in front of you. You are going to raise one hand only. Sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.


I am busy working till late tomorrow. I will try to write but it is possible that it may be Sunday before this happens. Just to let you know.


best regards,

Jonathan.

[Tristan Bousquet]

Hi Jonathan,

Thank you for telling me that you were likely to be busy.
I was unable to reach internet access this week end, sorry about that. I will warn you if this happens again.

Does the body experience sensations and thought?

is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

The body does not experience sensations and thought, as 'body' is just another thought label for sensations.

Is there a 'doer' that controls various activities such as breathing?

There is no 'doer' that controls activities such as breathing.

Get up… walk slowly…
is there a controller that controls walking?
or
is there just walking?"

There is just walking, as there is just making coffee.

About 'choosing'...

Place both hands on a table in front of you. You are going to raise one hand only. Sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

I could not find any 'choice-point'.
A thought of raising one hand appeared, without a choice to make.

Best regards,

Tristan

[JonathanR]

Hi Tristan,

Good to hear from you. Thanks for those answers.

Just a quick one this time.

How about 'mind'? Is there such a thing as mind found in direct experience? Is there a thinker of thoughts?

So, is there any 'self' here, now, at all? Right here, right now? Is there a 'me' 'doing' anything, causing anything to happen?

Regards,


Jonathan.

[Tristan Bousquet]

Hello Jonathan,

How about 'mind'? Is there such a thing as mind found in direct experience? Is there a thinker of thoughts?

There is no thinker of thoughts, there is not 'mind'.

So, is there any 'self' here, now, at all? Right here, right now? Is there a 'me' 'doing' anything, causing anything to happen?

No. Right now, there is just 'thinking about an answer', or 'typing on a computer'.

Best regards,

Tristan

[JonathanR]

Hello Tristan,

We have reached a stage where it would be very useful to go out and take a walk in nature. This could be in a park,or in countryside or by the sea. Somewhere where everything is alive. Notice the nature, trees, sea,clouds, sun, earth. Also any plants, animals, insects, people. Do youfeel how alive everything is?

Now, can you find a line where 'you' end and 'the world' begins?


At this point I want to ask you if you feel you have clearly seen though the illusion of a separate, controling self? If you have any questions or doubts about this please ask now and we can discuss them.

Otherwise we will go on to six questions that I'dlike you to answer as clearly as possible. (After you have answered these six questions, other guides will take a look at your answers and may have some useful extra questions for you.

Please let me know if you have any questions or doubts or else let me know if you are ready to considerthe six questions?



Warm regards,

Jonathan.

[Tristan Bousquet]

Hi Jonathan,

I will go out in a park tomorrow afternoon. I will keep you in touch.

Best regards,

Tristan

[Tristan Bousquet]

Dear Jonathan,

I could not go out in a park today. I will try again tomorrow.

Best regards,

Tristan

[JonathanR]

Hi Tristan,

The idea about the park is not really essential. It provides an opportunity for reflection on nature. But if you can't get to one easily don't feel you must. The sunshine on your face might be enough, or birds singing, or watching clouds crossing the sky.


Regards,

Jonathan

[Tristan Bousquet]

Hi Jonathan,

I still got into a park today.

There was a lot of different plants, animals, and insects.
Everything was moving, everything was new, everything was living.
It was clear that I was a part of this whole I was witnessing, there was no separation between the world and 'me'.

At this point, I clearly see that there are just thoughts relating to a body. These thoughts relate to a 'self', a separate entity, but the body is actually part of the continuity of the world, part of everything around.
Thoughts come and go, they are not generated by a 'self', and thus no self can control the body.

Best regards,

Tristan

[JonathanR]

Hi Tristan,

Well, that was successful! Good.

At this point, I clearly see that there are just thoughts relating to a body. These thoughts relate to a 'self', a separate entity, but the body is actually part of the continuity of the world, part of everything around.
Thoughts come and go, they are not generated by a 'self', and thus no self can control the body

But is it possible for thoughts to continue to create the illusion of a 'self'?

How about problems? Can thinking create a sense of 'problems' ? If so, what's to stop such ideas from seeming to be real? If the thought 'I think I have lost the ability to see no-self' appears, what is to stop that thought seeming to become reality?


Are you ready for the six questions I mentioned?



Best regards,




Jonathan.

[Tristan Bousquet]

Hello Jonathan,

But is it possible for thoughts to continue to create the illusion of a 'self'?

No, thoughts cannot create the illusion of a 'self' anymore, there is no reversal.

How about problems? Can thinking create a sense of 'problems' ? If so, what's to stop such ideas from seeming to be real? If the thought 'I think I have lost the ability to see no-self' appears, what is to stop that thought seeming to become reality?

Thinking cannot bring back the illusion of a self. If it is ever the case, I guess contemplating nature like I did yesterday would be a fine way to unveil it again.
Still, I currently do not want to ever reach that state again, actually it is the opposite path that I am taking now. Now that I know that the self is an illusion, I will try to live accordingly, and this behaviour will certainly strengthen the presence of this truth.

I am ready for the six questions that you have mentioned.


If it means that our conversation ends here, I would like to thank you deeply for guiding me. Thank you Jonathan.

I you do read me, I would also like to thank you Fred and Stuart, for helping me in the beginning.


Best regards,

Tristan

[JonathanR]

Hi Tristan,

Do not worry. I'm in no hurry to leave just yet :-)

These six questions may not be the end of our conversation. Please keep checking my posts to you, even when you have given answers. Once you have given answers we may talk more about what you have written. Then I will submit your answers to the other guides, who may also wish to ask a few questions. So please hang in there!

With these questions, I'll deliver three at a time, to make it easier. Please give your answers as if explaining to someone who had never heard of LU or 'no-self'. And answer from Direct Experience, please.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.


Best wishes,


Jonathan

[Tristan Bousquet]

Hello Jonathan,

Alright, it's cool then :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There has never been a separate entity called : 'self', 'me', 'i'. Any kind of concept such as these are mental construction.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self is a false concept implying that human beings are detached from the world around them, that they are isolated unities not belonging to the continuity of their environment.
This trick begins with thoughts. Thoughts come and go through a body, and are related to this body, subjective. This does not mean that the body thinks. But thoughts that go through it are defined by its point of view, and thus they identify as being from this body. And the idea of a 'self' is then automatically generated as soon as thoughts emerge.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I feel better than before, not that I was feeling bad or something, but something has been unveiled in me.
The difference from before is that now I clearly see the process, as far as it concerns me, and I can put it into words, I have a detailed understanding of it, and thus it is much more present to me.
I knew there was an illusion, but now I comprehend how it works, and it is much more efficient.

Best regards,

Tristan

[JonathanR]

Cool Tristan. Thanks for your answers.


We will go on to the other three questions:


4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience

.6) Anything to add?


Best regards,

Jonathan.

[Tristan Bousquet]

Hello Jonathan,

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The last bit that pushed me over, was realizing that thoughts placing themselves inside a body was an illusion.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience

I think there is no such thing as decision, intention, free will, choice, and control. They just happen, following previous happenings. Thus I strongly believe that no one is ever responsible for anything. Responsible is just a mental construction in the human world.
I could say that I am responsible for coming to this website and willing to get through the illusion of the self, but actually it is just how it went, there was not a single moment when 'I' had a role in this process. It was just the continuation of causes, some people call this determinism, destiny, karma…

I have nothing to add.


Best regards,

Tristan