Hello Ilona, I'd like to ask you to be my guide

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vinceschubert
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Re: Hello Ilona, I'd like to ask you to be my guide

Postby vinceschubert » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:41 am

Good evening Viv,
Is there (yet) a story about acceptance of THIS ? ..of what IS ?
I’m not sure what you are asking here.
i'm just asking if there is a story about acceptance, surrender. Different to when it actually happens. Do you have a story about it ?
So the conditioned result of the previous belief still can happen, but just as a condition and when it’s recognised it’s seen that this belief is already dead.
Yes, perfect.
So, let's summarize;
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) "Describe your experience of the illusion of separate self, how it arises/disappears. Is that process always the same, or does it vary, and if so, how?"

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

love

vince
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info

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Vivien
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Re: Hello Ilona, I'd like to ask you to be my guide

Postby Vivien » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:20 am

Hi Vince,
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, the “I” or “self” doesn’t exist and it has never existed.
2) "Describe your experience of the illusion of separate self, how it arises/disappears. Is that process always the same, or does it vary, and if so, how?"
1. When “I” refers to the body, seeing happens very soon, almost immediately after the thought arisen. For example, “I am sitting here”. It’s seen that not “I am” sitting here, but the body is sitting here. The “I” can also be the part of a simple thought, like “I have to do the dishes.” The I-thought is just a word similarly to the word “dishes”.

2. When the arising thought is a judgement with a belief without the word “I” in it, the “I” is still implicitly “there”. As if every belief contains a “piece of I” similarly to memories. As if the “I” is constructed from memories and beliefs. They both can trigger (or are linked to) particular conditioned emotions and the emotions arise in the body and the word “I” refer to the body. As a result, the “I” refer to the mixture of the body, emotions, memories and beliefs.

3. When “I” is a part of a story, and “I am” lost in its content, seeing doesn’t happen as fast as with just simple thoughts, sometimes being lost in its content can last for a few minutes before seeing through happens. When there is an emotional component the seeing happens very soon after the emotion arisen. As if the emotion triggers the seeing. However, being lost in the same story after seeing can happen again for a while before seeing it just a story happens again.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Before this forum “I” was already close to see the illusion of the I. Many beliefs had already been falling apart and the identification with the body was weak. There was a recognition that “I’m not the body”, but there was a belief that although “ I’m not the body, I’m still exist” as something else. This dialog with you helped me to see that the “I” doesn’t exist and it has always been just an illusion. You also helped me to see that what is real and what is not in direct experience.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
It happened about a week ago. The combination of two things:

“I” was sitting on the floor, leaning to the couch with my back. There was a sensation where the back and the couch contacted. In that sensation, there wasn’t any back or couch just the sensation.

At the same day you pointed something out I wrote: “In theory, it is clear…”. You questioned whether seeing happened or it was just in theory. “I” started investigating this, and something clicked. In the sensation, there wasn’t any back or couch, just the sensation itself. So in direct experience the only real thing is the experience itself. There is no “I”, no subject, no object.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Free will and any sort of control is just an illusion. “I” don’t make any decision, because there is no “I” to make any decision. Decision making probably happens in the brain with complicated calculations based on previous conditionings. But we cannot say that the brain is the decision maker, because the brain is not an entity. But still, the decision happens as part of the functioning of the brain, similarly as digestion happening in the digestive tract.

There is no free will, just an illusion of it. Actions of the body just come, like this typing is just happening.

About a week ago “I” tried to find out whether is there any free will. I was standing in the living room with a thought “Should I go to the kitchen to make a cup of tea or should I check my emails”. “I” was standing there, waiting to see whether “I” make the decision and move only if I made the decision. Every time a though came up saying “I go and make a tea” or “I should check my emails” it was seen than in either case “I” didn’t make any decision because what seems like as a decision making is just a though arising with a content, do this or that. So for several minutes I just stood there, unable to move, because the “decisions” wasn’t “mine”. 

Regarding responsibility: nobody is responsible for anything, because nobody is doing anything. Action happens based on the conditionings of the organism. Whatever happens at a given moment could not have happen any other way, because the complicated mixture of situations and previous conditionings in the organism can result only in this outcome.
6) Anything to add?
Currently, “I” spend more than half of my waking hours being lost in a content of thoughts and stories. However, this dreaming is frequently (hundreds times a day) intermitted with short (from a second to 10 seconds) seeing. In the last few days, there were some longer “seeing periods” which lasted about half an hour.

Thank you for your help Vince,
Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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vinceschubert
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Re: Hello Ilona, I'd like to ask you to be my guide

Postby vinceschubert » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:52 am

Viv, i've asked other guides to check for any areas that need clarity or any residual identification.
When 3 others agree that you have passed through the gateless gate, and there are no questions, then you will be invited to join a Facebook group where 'gatecrashers' support each other.
There are many new 'skills' to be considered as you are entering a whole new world now.
Anyway, lots of this kind of processing happens in those groups, so "friend" me on Facebook and i will invite you to join.
https://www.facebook.com/vince.schubert

and a small doc worth reading here; http://liberationunleashed.com/PDF/Awakened.pdf
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info

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Vivien
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Re: Hello Ilona, I'd like to ask you to be my guide

Postby Vivien » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:50 am

Thank you Vince, than I'll wait.
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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vinceschubert
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Re: Hello, I'd like to ask you to be my guide

Postby vinceschubert » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:38 pm

'Morning Viv, another guide asks; "What is it that spends time 'lost in thoughts and stories' and what is it that sees during 'seeing periods'? Anything?"

vince
liberation starts with recognising some illusions

http://www.1ness.info

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Vivien
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Re: Hello Ilona, I'd like to ask you to be my guide

Postby Vivien » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:34 am

Hi Vince,
another guide asks; "What is it that spends time 'lost in thoughts and stories' and what is it that sees during 'seeing periods'? Anything?"
“I was lost in a thought or a story” is just a labelling thought that comes up after seeing through the story happened. Being lost in a thought or a story is just a conditioning in the organism. Being lost happens as a result of conditioning and seeing also happens. However, after seeing that being lost in a story had happened, thoughts may come up claiming: “I was lost in a story” or “I saw it”. But these thoughts are also seen through almost immediately or a few seconds later. Similarly, during 'seeing periods' seeing just happens and later some labeling thoughts come up claiming that "I saw it". Very often, almost immediately, when a thought come up with the word “I” in it, the word “I” is noticed and the thought is seen instead of being lost in its content. “Being lost in its content” is just another thought-label that comes up after the seeing happened.

Thanks,
Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/


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