would someone be willing to be my guide please

All threads where seeing happens are stored here. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
You are welcome to continue your conversation with your guide here after your name is turned blue.
User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 5915
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby JonathanR » Thu May 29, 2014 11:00 pm

Hello,

Just one or two extra thoughts. Please have a think about my most recent question

A short while ago you said this:
If 'I' is a mental construct added on to the real experience, can 'me' ever 'exist' other than as thought
?
No, but perhaps me can be a thought with attached emotion

So let's take a look at thoughts now. So far your investigations seem to have revealed that there are direct experiences that happen right here, right now and thoughts, feelings, memories, that are extra to this direct sensing.


Where do thoughts 'come from'?

Is it exactly true to say that 'I control my thoughts'? or 'I create my thoughts'?

Best wishes,

Jonathan

User avatar
Carolyn Drake
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby Carolyn Drake » Fri May 30, 2014 11:01 am

Good morning Jonathan,
Sensations, thoughts and emotions all arise and fall away like clouds in a sky or waves in an ocean.
They all contribute to this present moment.
There is no one having this experience, it is just experience.
No I did not say that the sensation happens to me. It happens within the current moment.
I'll continue with the next message

User avatar
Carolyn Drake
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby Carolyn Drake » Fri May 30, 2014 11:05 am

Continuation
Thoughts arise from conditions (short hand for everything going on in the world, here and in the past).
No, I am not my thoughts and I do not create my thoughts. They arise.
Thx

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 5915
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby JonathanR » Fri May 30, 2014 1:25 pm

Hello Carolyn,
Sensations, thoughts and emotions all arise and fall away like clouds in a sky or waves in an ocean.
They all contribute to this present moment.
There is no one having this experience, it is just experience.
No I did not say that the sensation happens to me. It happens within the current moment.
Good.

If no one is 'having this experience', thoughts just appear and disappear. So no-one is 'making the thoughts happen'?

(Important) If nobody is making thoughts happen, can thoughts be made not to happen? Is it possible to prevent thoughts from arising? , including the thought 'I'?

Jonathan.

User avatar
Carolyn Drake
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby Carolyn Drake » Fri May 30, 2014 5:16 pm

No one is making thoughts happen, thoughts can not be made not to happen.
Not possible to prevent thoughts arising.

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 5915
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby JonathanR » Sat May 31, 2014 1:27 pm

Hi Carolyn,
No one is making thoughts happen, thoughts can not be made not to happen.
Not possible to prevent thoughts arising.
Good. And as thoughts appear, is it clear 'where' they appear? For example, if a hand is placed in front of the head it can be said 'a hand is seen in front of the head'. But what about thoughts? If you were to say 'a thought arises in me' you would have to explain what 'me' is and also how it is known that the thought arises there? Wouldn't you?

At any one moment in experience is it possible to find anything other than 'this thought right now'? Like the other senses, can anything other than the current sensation be seen or felt, etc?

Jonathan.

User avatar
Carolyn Drake
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby Carolyn Drake » Sat May 31, 2014 5:31 pm

Hello Jonathan,
A thought arises in awareness. Awareness arises from all sensations, emotions and thoughts. Co-arising, co-existing, co-passing.
I agree, there is only this thought right now.
Carolyn

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 5915
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby JonathanR » Sat May 31, 2014 10:14 pm

Hello Carolyn,
A thought arises in awareness. Awareness arises from all sensations, emotions and thoughts. Co-arising, co-existing, co-passing.
I agree, there is only this thought right now.
Just to pursue this a little more, I asked 'where' thoughts appear. But is 'awareness' a thing. a place? Can you find the location of awareness? Is it in 'you' or to 'you'? Perhaps an area that 'you' have considered as 'my mind'. Is there such an area to be found?

If direct experience reveals a stream of sensations and thoughts, emotions, arising and passing is it true that these are 'happening in' or 'to' 'Awareness'? Look at this. One can verify the former by observation. It is true.

But what about 'mind'? Would it be fair to say that 'mind' or 'awareness' are labels given to this apparent stream of happenings?

J.

User avatar
Carolyn Drake
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby Carolyn Drake » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:55 pm

Hello,
Yes I can see your query about my answer. I don't know the answer to your questions. Awareness is not a thing or place. I can't locate awareness. Its not in me. I'm not sure what you mean by 'to me'.
These sensations, thoughts and emotions arise and pass within this field of awareness which has no substance.
Yes labels for this apparent stream of happenings.
I've done my best to address your questions, they are close to the limit of my current ability to express myself.
Thank you
Carolyn

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 5915
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby JonathanR » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:39 pm

hello Carolyn,
Hello Carolyn,


Thank you very much for your reply. I will properly reply tomorrow. Apologies for lateness. Not been very well today.

Best wishes

Jonathan

User avatar
Carolyn Drake
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby Carolyn Drake » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:26 pm

I'm sorry to hear you are unwell. Please take whatever time you need.
Cheers
Carolyn

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 5915
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby JonathanR » Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:27 pm

Thanks Carolyn,

Much better now. :-)


Hello,
Yes I can see your query about my answer. I don't know the answer to your questions. Awareness is not a thing or place. I can't locate awareness. Its not in me. I'm not sure what you mean by 'to me'.
These sensations, thoughts and emotions arise and pass within this field of awareness which has no substance.
Yes labels for this apparent stream of happenings.
I've done my best to address your questions, they are close to the limit of my current ability to express myself.
Thank you for this reply. Your response is very helpful.

Do you remember saying
I can't get away from the idea that at some level I choose to move my foot.
"My foot' can be a label, 'me' can be a label but whatever is behind the label of 'me' does have a choice in its actions to a certain extent.
?

Might this be rephrased? Would it be fair to say something more like:
'Choices appear to be being made by 'me'. 'My foot' appears to move 'as a result of the choice'. Many choices, many movements from which the presemce of a controling entity is imagined and assumed?

Do you still believe what you wrote then? If so please be completely frank about this. When you have looked, have you found a controlling entity? In sensation right now, is there a seperate self watching, sensations? Is there a thinker having thoughts? Is there a chooser making choices?

Has anything changed in the past few days, in terms of the way that all events appear to unfold? It would be great if you could say how, exactly.

Best wishes,

Jonathan..

User avatar
Carolyn Drake
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby Carolyn Drake » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:00 pm

.
Do you remember saying
I can't get away from the idea that at some level I choose to move my foot.
"My foot' can be a label, 'me' can be a label but whatever is behind the label of 'me' does have a choice in its actions to a certain extent.
?
Yes the question really bugged me.
Might this be rephrased? Would it be fair to say something more like:
'Choices appear to be being made by 'me'. 'My foot' appears to move 'as a result of the choice'. Many choices, many movements from which the presemce of a controling entity is imagined and assumed? Do you still believe what you wrote then? If so please be completely frank about this
Yes this sits comfortably with my experience, much closer than what I wrote previously.
But what about this 'choice'.... another concept? A choice emerges from complex situations but there doesn't appear to be any control or controller.
Has anything changed in the past few days, in terms of the way that all events appear to unfold? It would be great if you could say how, exactly
.

Over the last few months the questions surrounding the nature of existence of my sensations, thoughts and emotions have frequently appeared in the forefront of my awareness. Much meditation, retreats and study have provided a stimulating environment for this exploration. I have experienced much frustration around this difficulty of language to convey adequately this gradual unravelling. I am aware of vastness and the minuteness of any clarity I have. Over the last few days this clarity has slightly increased but the massive shift has been in the way I can express these experiences. A new vocabulary and means of expression. Thank you.

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 5915
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby JonathanR » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:49 pm

Hello Carolyn,


But what about this 'choice'.... another concept? A choice emerges from complex situations but there doesn't appear to be any control or controller
Was that something you've noticed from direct experience?

A very good observation.

It might be a very good time to go for a walk, in nature or a park perhaps, somewhere where everything is alive and moving or growing. Spend some time just noticing everything, animals, plants, flowers, birds, trees, your own breathing, the air....Do you notice an ISness about everything? A lack of separation? Can you find a line where 'you' end and 'everything else' begins?

Regards,

Jonathan.

User avatar
Carolyn Drake
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: would someone be willing to be my guide please

Postby Carolyn Drake » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:49 pm

Hello Jonathan,
I'm so sorry I've been out of touch. I lost my laptop but now it is found.
I will give a full response tomorrow.
Carolyn


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 203 guests