Request Hare as a guide!

[Aka1508]

Hi Hare...

Thanks for your encouragement, let's keep exploring...

Honestly, I love the exploration, the enquiry without theory... It is a challenge for me... But, hey, here I am back, motivated...

Yes. Nothing to chase. What you are opening to already is, right here, this very moment. A nanosecond is enough, trust those glimpses.

Today I had several glimpses of that opening ... A kind of suspension ... It happened as I was talking away during a meeting.. Suddenly something opened up and the talking stopped. It felt like a blank moment, an empty moment... Then continued talking... Had too.

Do any thoughts, ever, require a 'me' (you!) to summon them?

You know... I have been "watching" the thinking process and, it seems as if I am doing this for the first time. I mean, "watching" the thoughts... Asking without asking, what is the source? Who generates them? Where do they come from? Just trying to be aware of the "generating" process. Even now, as I'm writing I'm just realising the as I type quite fast, the thoughts seems to come from my fingers! I'm not even aware of thinking -I type really fast, then there is no time to think about what I'm going to write. It seems the best way of exploring ... No time to think, just to write, without an editor, as it were.

I'm inclined to say that, no, there is no "me" summoning the thoughts. It honestly, doesn't feel that way. As I typed I'm noticing that even though there is still a grey zone, there is also more certainty. What does it mean? That there is more confidence in the experience than before. Before I felt more uncertain, or reluctant or resistant to accepting the experience as real and valid.

When you say "I", what does that refer to in direct experience? Please describe in detail – does it have a shape? A size? A quality?

I'm eating a crunchy granola bar (oats 'n honey) and I'm repeating 'I'm eating a crunchy granola bar", "eating a crunchy granola bar", "I'm eating a crunchy granola bar"; "eating a crunchy granola bar", this is repeated several times and then, another question suddenly comes up, who is eating a crunchy granola bar? And then expectation, waiting for a "something" to appear saying "me"; and no-one comes... Feeling bewilderment... A sense of wonder... A sense of expectation, like waiting for something else to happen... And at the same time, without waiting, just enjoying the moment... A smile slowly emerging, it can be felt... As a gesture... Listening to soft and brief laughter.

If the "I" responsible for eating a crunchy granola bar, is not owning the sin (the diet, you know), then how on earth would I know its size, its quality? No way...

Even though an I didn't show up... A small doubt is still being felt... Somewhere in my belly... As a kind of disbelief, not a massive one, but still there... My resolve, keep doing this exercise: "I'm doing this", "doing this", "I'm doing this", "doing this", who's doing this" where is it? And so on... I have a sense that if I keep exploring this way, something may happen.

Sweet dreams - till next time.

Akita.

[Hare]

Hi Akita,

enquiry without theory

Yes!

several glimpses of that opening

Excellent!

I have been "watching" the thinking process and, it seems as if I am doing this for the first time. I mean, "watching" the thoughts

Who is watching? Who is doing this for the first time? Who means?

Is 'Akita' (substitute your usual name) doing this?

Does 'Akita' exist?

another question suddenly comes up, who is eating a crunchy granola bar? And then expectation, waiting for a "something" to appear saying "me"; and no-one comes...

Is that because there is no 'me', other than as a construct of thought and language? Meerly a convenient label we stick on this constantly shifting psycho-physical complex...behind which there is no independently existing essence...indeed, no substance whatsoever?

keep exploring this way

Yes!

Happy day Akita!
;-) Hare

[Hare]

Hi Akita, how's it going?
H

[Akita1508]

Hi. Still here, pondering the points you made. ;) Akita


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[Akita1508]

Do Akita exists? Do whoever I think I am exist? - have no answer yet...


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[Hare]

So in DE, is 'Akita' there? What's there?

:-) H

[Hare]

pondering the points you made

Don't ponder! Simply look, now, in immediate experience ;-)

[Akita1508]

Day is breaking this side of the world... Not pondering... Seeking Akita. There is a part that want to say, "hey, here I am".
While another just want to say, "come on, seeking Akita? Nowhere to be found...


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[Akita1508]

In DE experience, is Akita here? Is Akita typing this words? So far, it is the most puzzling questions of all Hare. It is akin to asking whether I exist or not. Since you have already posed the question of whether something called I exists or not... And seeking the I found nothing... I looked in the mirror and saw an image. Is that, what I'm looking at, Akita?

But, it is an image in the mirror... That is not Akita. You are asking about experiencing Akita, not looking an image of what is being called Akita. Right?

Well, there are a myriad of sensations ... Smells, sounds, images, thoughts, etc... Yet, as a DE... No Akita. Writing this cautiously, it needs to be said.

Akita.


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[Hare]

There is a part that want to say, "hey, here I am"

What does 'I' refer to in this sentence? Say more!

seeking Akita? Nowhere to be found

No, 'Akita' has not been found. Is that because 'Akita', 'me', 'I', etc are simply convenient labels used in thought and language? Like the word 'university': a convenience of language to describe a complex of buildings, students, staff, equipment and so on..but there isn't any single thing one can point to and say 'this is what the university is.'

But, it is an image in the mirror... That is not Akita. You are asking about experiencing Akita, not looking an image of what is being called Akita. Right?

Agreed! Spot on!

there are a myriad of sensations ... Smells, sounds, images, thoughts, etc... Yet, as a DE... No Akita.

Yes!

Remember we are not talking about 'losing' the self - it was never there! The direct experience of 'no self' is no different to what your direct experience has ever been - just the interpretation is undergoing a shift. Sensations are there. Thoughts are there. Feelings can be there too.

Try this:

Take some time to write down what you experience, labeling with S, T or F (sensation, thought, feeling). Here's an example:

Looking – s
Coughing – s
Noting tight shoulders – s
Saying to myself ‘relax’ – T
Noticing dust on desk and wiping it off – T + S
Typing – s
Looking around, seeing my Dad’s name on a folder – s
Remembering my Dad – T
Warmth – F
Looking - s

Then take some time just continuing to notice what arises - do any of these sensations, thoughts or feelings require a 'self' to make them happen, or an 'experiencer' to 'have' the experience? Report back.

Warmly,
:-) H

[Hare]

Hi Akita,

how goes?

H

[Aka1508]

Hi Hare

Here I am...

What does 'I' refer to in this sentence? Say more!

...

When I say 'there is a part of me'... It is as like a cautionary 'thing'. There are this questioning thoughts: 'what if it not true?' what if im just kidding myself? what if im just making this DE up...

At times I have no doubts ... and some other times they (the doubts) just pop-up...

No, 'Akita' has not been found.

Yesterday, I was in physiotherapy (massage and acupuncture) and had the most amazing experience... Went right into the body (without a volition 'wanting' to go into the body) and experienced it as never before. Went and the thought occurred to me: 'right here, where is Akita'... and navigated, as it where, across the body that at some point stopped having shape of substance... it was like an empty space... like staring at a wonderful open and infinite space... I could feel the therapist's hands and later the needles ... yeah, the experience lasted for quite some time... I guess over one hour... Of course, in that empty space finding Akita was not meant to be... even though the intent of 'seeking Akita' never really stopped -was conscious of the 'task'... I even asked 'who is doing the watching? I had no answer at all... just a sense of openness and alertness..

Remember we are not talking about 'losing' the self - it was never there! The direct experience of 'no self' is no different to what your direct experience has ever been - just the interpretation is undergoing a shift.

Glad you are saying this Hare... because at a more cognitive level, the question was there: What is being lost? was the question... really... and I had a sense that it was the interpretation of experience, just as you say, there was no sense of the experience (or experiences) were any different, but the way they were being looked at.

Noticing in the writing that the use of 'I' is being avoided, sometimes automatically and some others more consciously.

Then take some time just continuing to notice what arises - do any of these sensations, thoughts or feelings require a 'self' to make them happen, or an 'experiencer' to 'have' the experience? Report back.

I have been doing the above even before we started this dialogue, and have to say that they just happen... unfortunately, here I have the notion of 'they happen just because I have a body', still crossing paths with the DE of typing -for example.

Further... during the exercise, there is not just looking, but hearing and sensing with thoughts randomly arising. It is difficult to separate experiences coming through different senses so neatly.

Thanks Hare for your patience and invaluable help...

Akita

[Hare]

Hello Akita!

So lovely to hear from you. Thanks so much for telling me about your experience in Physio.

There are this questioning thoughts: 'what if it not true?' what if im just kidding myself? what if im just making this DE up...

What are doubts? Passing thoughts? Anything more? If and when they pop up, look. What's actually there?

Which is closer to reality in your experience? Thoughts? Or direct experience through the senses? Which is more trustworthy?

I even asked 'who is doing the watching? I had no answer at all... just a sense of openness and alertness..

Nobody 'doing the watching'...just experience happening, no need for 'I' or 'me'. It's an add-on!

it was the interpretation of experience, just as you say, there was no sense of the experience (or experiences) were any different, but the way they were being looked at.

Yes, v. good to see this :-)

'they happen just because I have a body'

Is the body a self? Is there a self 'in' the body? If so, where? Is there a self 'outside' the body?

Is there in fact a self, anywhere, that can be located in any way?

Report back on what comes up.

Delightful, engaging together like this!
x H

[Akita1508]

Hi Hare

I'm still here... Will reply later with more detail .... In the meantime, I'm experiencing the body... Seeking for a self... So far nothing to be found.

Akita


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[Hare]

Hi Akita!

Thanks for staying on touch.

To help explore 'the body' - close your eyes and tune in to the sensations where 'your' body' touches what is 'not your body' (buttocks on the chair or whatever). Can you find any boundary between the two?

:-) H