The Gate

Hi Pete

By looking directly at 'your' experience you've seen that there's just experiencing/ awareing. Indeed, not only is awareness an integral part of this aware moment, it is this aware moment!

Reading this gave me a strange somewhat unsettling feeling. It felt like the solidity of the world was braking-up, or somehow becoming transparent. Only lasted for a moment but strange.

As always, in direct experience:
Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?

No

Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?

No

Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?

No

Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

No

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

Yes ( this is a new realization for me-thanks for that Pete)

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

No,

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

No

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

Its just an amazing fabrication.

And finally:
Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?

The illusion of a separate self has been seen for what it is - an extremely subtle self perpetuating thought loop that keeps running in the mind.
What is now left is a feeling of 'if there is no separate self what is going on here ?


As Aways many thanks Pete for your guidance and time
David

Hi David,

By looking directly at 'your' experience you've seen that there's just experiencing/ awareing. Indeed, not only is awareness an integral part of this aware moment, it is this aware moment!

Reading this gave me a strange somewhat unsettling feeling. It felt like the solidity of the world was braking-up, or somehow becoming transparent. Only lasted for a moment but strange.

Yes, what you describe can happen when separate self has been seen through. It can often be a sign that a shift has happened or is happening. But, of course, it's still just a state that passes like all states do, as you've seen. Simply seeing that there's no self whenever you look is what really matters.

Your answers to my 'sweep-up' questions are very clear and it's equally clear to me that you're now ready for the final questions. I'm really pleased about that David. When answering question 5, please give specific and very recent examples from direct experience. Once I get your answers, I'll put them forward for other guides for any comments. Then I'll arrange for you to get access to various aftercare and other groups on Facebook and the LU site. Have you got a Facebook name? If so, either let me know here or, if you prefer, PM it to me.

Always from direct experience.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from recent experience.

6) Anything to add?

Pete

Hi Pete

Always from direct experience.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Nothing can be detected apart from thoughts, sense data and a strong feeling of being/awareness.Looking back in memory only the story of a separate self can be seen.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is based around the body/mind complex. It only occurs in thought and starts when thought arises e.g. a cup of tea is made, after the immediate action thought creates the story that 'I' made a cup of tea, even during the action, sense data arising from within the body mainly tactile feelings give a sort of concrete feeling to the idea of a separate self. Memory also plays a big role in the perpetuation of the separate self- when a memory arises, thought says 'that is what I did or happened to me'. Its a self sustaining positive feed back loop.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

The feeling is one of freedom and lightness. Before this dialogue started there was a unconscious acceptance of the illusory self and its unquestioned statements and beliefs. With this freedom comes the sense of being more awake now that the 'self storeys' are seen as just illusion. There has been no flashing lights, chorus of trumpets or petals falling from heaven- more a settled peace of being at home.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I think it was after reading the following from one of your postings

You say you doubt whether any understanding will be achieved, but it's not about that. An understanding indicates that the knowing for certain that there's no separate self can somehow happen as a result of an intellectual process, through thought. That simply can't happen. It won't work. It's thoughts that are giving rise to your doubt now. Nothing else is! Only by looking, looking, looking in indirect experience will you see for sure that there's no separate 'you'. Thoughts trying to convince you otherwise will continue to spew forth at least for a while. If you see them for what they are, impersonal arising whose contents are neither reliable nor true, that's it, no problem. If you continue to believe them, that is the problem. It's not about mere glimpses or this seeing being vulnerable. It's always there, right now, to be seen in direct experience.

This brought home the fact that reality is found by only deeply looking now at what is actually happening and not accepting the pseudo reality that is created by thoughts and memories. It also helped to disentangle the strong sense of being/awareness seen/felt in direct experience from the thought that awarness was in some way a property/adjunct of the ego self. This produced the crack.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from recent experience.

In direct experience there is no decision, intention free will, choice and control- there is just THIS that is happening in this moment. Decisions and choices appear to take place but no self can be found that is making them.
I havent a clue as to what makes things happen- they just happen- though to conceptualise one could say that things happen in accord with causes and conditions
How does it work, again that seems to be the role of conceptualisation to work out.
There is no responsibility for this moment since there is no 'one' to take responsibility. Yet things happen within a sense of doing what needs to be done.
One recent example : I am about to do the washing up, a job I do not look forward to. A thought arose 'I better do those dammed dishes' this was followed by the immediate realization that this inner dialogue was just a thought, a thought that was creating the illusion of a me needing to wash dishes aha!. The dishes got washed without any accompaniment of complaining self, no suffering!

6) Anything to add?

Could it be this simple- just to look directly at what is happening and what is there in this moment? No thinking about it', no mental fabrications or conceptualisations!

As always many thanks for your time and guidance
Best wishes with gasho
David

ps I will open an account on
facebookand post the address tommorrow

Hi David,

Thank you for your very clear and straightforward answers to the questions. I think that's it's just great that you're now able to see through the illusion of a separate self so clearly.

I've asked the guides to have a look at this thread and I'll let you know as soon as I can whether they have any queries to clarify anything, as they often do. It's a good idea to check whenever you can, to keep the flow going if necessary. It can take a day or two, or it can be quicker.

Pete

Hi David,

Wow, that was quick! I'm pleased to be able to tell you that the guides are satisfied that you have seen through the illusion of a separate self and they have no queries

I've been in touch with LU admin to get you 'turned blue' and they will be contact you with invitations to the various groups etc.

This was a really enjoyable guiding for me, particularly how, once you were pointed in 'the right direction', you were so ready and able to see clearly through the illusion of separate self.

Go well Jon.

With Love,

Pete

Ps. Once you're 'turned blue' this thread is locked and archived, so don't post your Facebook details here, just PM me.

Apologies David - that should have read 'Go well David' ;)

Pete

Hi again,

Just out of interest, when you said 'Best wishes with gasho' at the end of your last email, what does 'with gasho' mean.

You can still probably post here for a while yet before it's archived.

Pete

Hi Pete

Thanks again for your skillful guidance. I doubt if I would have seen through the illusion of a septate self without your help.
Having some problems creating a facebook account but will let you know asap (what is PM ?).

You asked the meaning of with gasho (hands palms together) it is a gesture of thanks and respect :




With much gratitude
David

Hi David,

Ah, I see. Thank you. My sincere good wishes to you, with gasho also.

PM stands for private message. You can contact me with your FB details using a PM if and when this thread has been locked and archived by then. To do so, when logged on, click on User Control Panel in the blue section at the top. Then click on Private Messages at the top of the white panel that comes up. You can then compose your message to me. You'll need to type in 'moondog' and click on 'Add' as well as include a heading, and all should be fine.

Good luck and looking forward to see you in the FB groups!

Pete