Asking for guidence

[Same]

Ok. I did the exercise. Here is how I experienced it:
When looking at a glass standing on a table, and I sit very still, and stop projecting my interpretation of what I see, these interpretations can be for example how the surface feels, and the depht of the picture. Then it is like the picture turns into 2D instead of 3D, very interesting. Like you wrote in an earlier message. I see just colours blending into each other. I see the edge of where the colour of the glass turns into the colour of the table. I see some reflections in the glass. Still just colours besides other colours. Almost like a 2D painting.

What if your voice were taped and playing from a stereo? Would it still be experienced as "your voice" or is the feeling of your mouth and tongue moving the only indication that this is “your voice”?

I would not feel it's my voice. But I would still recognise the voice as mine from how it sounds.

[Alexw]

Very well done!

When doing this exercise, can you find a separation between an entity that is seeing and the seeing that is done?
If you are not sure, take another object and try again - is there a line/border where the seer begins and the action of seeing ends? Or is there just seeing?

I would not feel it's my voice. But I would still recognise the voice as mine from how it sounds

Yes, you would for sure recognise it. In either way, is there anything more than just thought telling you that this is your voice? Is there anything but thought telling you that the feeling of moving your mouth and tongue are indications that you are speaking and thus you are hearing your voice? Isn't it the same with hearing the recorded voice - just thought telling you this is your voice? Is there an entity "hearer" that is hearing or is there just hearing?

[Same]

When doing this exercise, can you find a separation between an entity that is seeing and the seeing that is done?

I Like this exercise a lot. I did it with some different object. No, I find no entity seer. Only seeing going on.

is there anything more than just thought telling you that this is your voice? Is there anything but thought telling you that the feeling of moving your mouth and tongue are indications that you are speaking and thus you are hearing your voice? Isn't it the same with hearing the recorded voice - just thought telling you this is your voice? Is there an entity "hearer" that is hearing or is there just hearing?

Again. yes. I find only hearing going on. Or feeling going on when the voice is also felt physically. And thoughts that identify the voice as mine.

[Alexw]

About a week ago you said:
"When I identify with this being (me, my body) and it's needs. Which in a way is separate from other beings (different body, different experiences) This identification creates the sense or thought that there is a "me" somewhere."

How do you see this identification with "my body" now after doing these exercises?
Is there a "me" anywhere? If "me" is only a thought, what are "others"?
Is there is no separate "me" then what are you?

[Same]

How do you see this identification with "my body" now after doing these exercises?

It feels different. There is a lot of bodily experiences going on. But I can not trace it back to someone having these experiences. I find only the experiences.

Is there a "me" anywhere? If "me" is only a thought, what are "others"?

If the "me" doesn´t exist. Then what are others? I always assumed that there was someone there, in other beings. But this makes a huge shift. I can´t find "me". Is there no "me" in them? They don´t exist. This seems really scary. A bit lonely actually. Whar are others? I find the experience of other beings. I see them, feel them, hear them. But there is no one there. This scares me. I have tears in my eyes.

If there is no separate "me" then what are you?

I don´t exist. There is only this experience going on. This also is scary for me.

[Alexw]

I find only the experiences.

Yes, well seen. There is only experiencing - now. No separate entity/self experiencing.

If the "me" doesn´t exist. Then what are others? I always assumed that there was someone there, in other beings. But this makes a huge shift. I can´t find "me". Is there no "me" in them? They don´t exist. This seems really scary. A bit lonely actually. Whar are others? I find the experience of other beings. I see them, feel them, hear them. But there is no one there. This scares me. I have tears in my eyes.

Yes, no separate "me" thus also no separate "other". Well seen. Does there have to be a separate me/other for something to exist? Could it all be one?
Why does it scare you that there is no separate "me" in Sam or "me" in Alex? If there is no "me" wouldn't that make many things a lot less complicated? Would this be a good reason to see others in a very different light? What makes you different from them?

I don´t exist. There is only this experience going on. This also is scary for me.

Don't you exist? Are you not aware of this sentence that you are reading right now?

[Same]

Does there have to be a separate me/other for something to exist?

No, things and people exists anyway. Just, no separate entity there.

Could it all be one?

Yes I´ve read and heard this a 1000 times. All is one. But how do I really see it and feel it without any doubt?

Why does it scare you that there is no separate "me" in Sam or "me" in Alex? If there is no "me" wouldn't that make many things a lot less complicated?

Yes it certenly makes things more simple. No need to beleve in all the stories created around the person "I". Or the person "you". What is scary about it? I experience a feeling of lonelinss when I no longer find any "you´s" around. But then again. Who is there to feel lonely? no one. Anyway, first there is loneliness, that triggers some fear. Fear of loneliness. When I look at it, I see that it´s just stories. But the feeling is there, experienced as thoughts and bodily sensations.

Would this be a good reason to see others in a very different light? What makes you different from them?

Yes but how? What makes me different from them? I can register the experience I have through this body. And not through other bodies. They are experienced through this body. That´s the only difference I find.

Don't you exist? Are you not aware of this sentence that you are reading right now?

I don´t know. Not the way I thought before anyway. Yes I´m aware of reading this sentence. What does that make me? I am aware. And "I" don´t exist, that makes "aware" left. Can I say that I am this "awareness"?

[Alexw]

Yes I´ve read and heard this a 1000 times. All is one. But how do I really see it and feel it without any doubt?

What would you expect to feel? Is the expectation to feel this blissful one-ness anything else but a story that you want to be true? I am not saying that it is not possible to experience this one-ness in one or another way, but this is not a permanent state - and chasing it will not get you anywhere but to a state of unhappiness due to unfulfilled desires.
You ask "how do I see or feel it"... What do you see and feel right now? What do you think THIS is? How would THIS feel without thought constantly stating that this part of THIS is "I" and that this part of THIS is "other"? You mentioned before that there is only experiencing - no experiencer and nothing to be experienced... Is there any separation to be found? Is separation anywhere else but in your thoughts stating that there is separation?

Who is there to feel lonely? no one. Anyway, first there is loneliness, that triggers some fear. Fear of loneliness. When I look at it, I see that it´s just stories. But the feeling is there, experienced as thoughts and bodily sensations.

Great! Yes, this will take a bit of getting used to, but you are seeing this clearly.

Yes but how? What makes me different from them? I can register the experience I have through this body. And not through other bodies. They are experienced through this body. That´s the only difference I find.

Is there anything else but thought that states that a separate "you" is experiencing a separate "body"?
How does this work in a dream? Are there experiences that you would call "experiencing body"? Is there a "physical body" in a dream?

[Same]

What would you expect to feel? Is the expectation to feel this blissful one-ness anything else but a story that you want to be true? I am not saying that it is not possible to experience this one-ness in one or another way, but this is not a permanent state - and chasing it will not get you anywhere but to a state of unhappiness due to unfulfilled desires.

Yes. I notice a expactation of some kind of shift to happen. When all is seen as one. This makes sense, yes. Another story made of thoughts.

What do you see and feel right now? What do you think THIS is? How would THIS feel without thought constantly stating that this part of THIS is "I" and that this part of THIS is "other"? You mentioned before that there is only experiencing - no experiencer and nothing to be experienced... Is there any separation to be found? Is separation anywhere else but in your thoughts stating that there is separation?

I had to read this part several times to even understand what it says. I read the questions, try to understand, and my mind goes blank. silence.
Yes, I look at THIS experience. Reading these words, I still find no reader. Reading is happening, thinking & trying to understand is happening, silence is happening.
Separation.. looking. Why am I even searching for it, I wonder. It´s almost like my mind wants to find it. I find nothing.

Is there anything else but thought that states that a separate "you" is experiencing a separate "body"?
How does this work in a dream? Are there experiences that you would call "experiencing body"? Is there a "physical body" in a dream?

Hmm. yes. There is this experience of this body. I know no other experiences. This is the only experience that exists in my experience. Oh, this is getting complicated..
Dreams, usualy different bodily experiences, they can be quite similar to waking state bodily experiences. They can also be quite different. Like different physical laws. I usually experience having some kind of body in the dream. But it can´t be the physical body, it´s asleep. But now I´m in memories of dream states, which is also just thoughts right now. If I could write to you in the dream state about my experience. hah. would be fun.

[Alexw]

Separation.. looking. Why am I even searching for it, I wonder. It´s almost like my mind wants to find it. I find nothing.

What exactly does the mind (thought) do with experiences. Can it make them happen or change them? Or can it only comment on them? Do you think you might be focussing on the commenting thoughts instead of the direct experience of seeing, hearing, feeling..?

I usually experience having some kind of body in the dream. But it can´t be the physical body, it´s asleep.

Is there a "physical body" or is there just what you experience right now? Is it really any different from your dream body (besides different physical laws)? What are the other characters in your dreams made of and how is the separation between your character and other characters experienced? Is there more than simply thought inventing separation?

[Same]

What exactly does the mind (thought) do with experiences. Can it make them happen or change them? Or can it only comment on them?

Thoughts are also experiences, but what do with other experiences? comment them, yes. I have no control to change my thoughts and experiences. They just appear and disappear.

Do you think you might be focussing on the commenting thoughts instead of the direct experience of seeing, hearing, feeling..?

Maybe. I will try to look at it... I see both at same time, or shifting. I see both experiencing, seeing, feeling et.c.
I also see the commenting thoughts. I don´t know which one has my main focus. I thing it is shifting from one to the other, and back again..

Is there a "physical body" or is there just what you experience right now? Is it really any different from your dream body?

I call this a physical body. But is there any difference really? looking.. Waking state, experienced. Dream state, experienced. The content looks a bit different. But both is experienced in quite a similar way.

What are the other characters in your dreams made of and how is the separation between your character and other characters experienced? Is there more than simply thought inventing separation?

The other characters in dreams appear in the dream state counciousness. They must be made of thoughts. Totally, the character identity and the bodies. As there are no physical bodies involved. The characters are made of thoughts, as well as myself in the dream, as well as myself "I" in the waking state. This is a really good analogy. very interesting.
So what is the separation here. It´s obvious in the dream that different characters are made of the same thing. So there is no separation there. Now I will try to apply this to the waking state.

[Alexw]

I have no control to change my thoughts and experiences. They just appear and disappear.

Yes, true - and you can observe them and take them for what they are - just thoughts commenting and labelling experiencing.

.. I see both at same time, or shifting. I see both experiencing, seeing, feeling et.c.
I also see the commenting thoughts. I don´t know which one has my main focus. I thing it is shifting from one to the other, and back again..

This is good. Let the focus/awareness go where it wants to go. Just try to recognise when thoughts label experiences like "this is good/bad for me" etc...

The other characters in dreams appear in the dream state counciousness. They must be made of thoughts.

Do they? Why? Aren't they experienced just as you experience them in the waking state? Is there any difference from experiencing thoughts in a dream and in the waking state? If not, then why should experiencing be different in a dream?

[Same]

Do they? Why? Aren't they experienced just as you experience them in the waking state? Is there any difference from experiencing thoughts in a dream and in the waking state? If not, then why should experiencing be different in a dream?

Yes, actually, when I look, the experiences in dream and awake state is experienced in same way. I see no difference. Just different content. But the content is different every moment anyway. In awake or dream or whatever.

[Alexw]

Lets have a look at what you said when you first got here. You mentioned that sometimes you contemplate questions like "Who is thinking this?" "Who is speaking this?"
What would be your answer to these questions now?

[Same]

Lets have a look at what you said when you first got here. You mentioned that sometimes you contemplate questions like "Who is thinking this?" "Who is speaking this?"
What would be your answer to these questions now?

My answer right now would be, I could go on forever looking at these quesions, trying to find what "I" am, as I never find anything but thoughts. It seems like a waste of time to look for "I', as I probably never will find anything of substance. So, who is thinking this? no one. Thinking is going on. Who is speaking? no one. Speaking happening.