I guess I am confused because I've struggled with the idea of God much of my life... Trying to figure out if there is one & what that would mean... I thought I had things figured out to a workable degree and when u say there is no steering wheel my mind thinks "does this mean there is no God" and I guess that's what's gotten me upside down... My mind can handle what that would mean for me...
On the one hand I can handle letting to of the steering wheel if I think that's what I'm supposed to do, but if there's no one there judging if I did right (giving up control) or wrong (taking control) then what is the point?? I'm aimless...
Ok, I'm ready for a guide
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
Is there anyone to let go of anything? What does letting go of the steering wheel mean to you?
What is the point... Do we need to be judged to have a reason to live? Isn't constant judgement the reason for suffering? When you judge something to be right or wrong - what happens? What happens if you see, accept and let go without judgement?
What do you think about this zen statement:
The perfect man employs his mind as a mirror.
It grasps nothing, it refuses nothing. It receives but does not keep.
What is the point... Do we need to be judged to have a reason to live? Isn't constant judgement the reason for suffering? When you judge something to be right or wrong - what happens? What happens if you see, accept and let go without judgement?
What do you think about this zen statement:
The perfect man employs his mind as a mirror.
It grasps nothing, it refuses nothing. It receives but does not keep.
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
Letting go of the steering wheel means putting your life in God's hands, to allow the unfolding of life... Not to say that God has some unwavering plan, but that if you give up your control, control doesn't just disappear, it is turned over and you can have trust in the direction in which your life will go... I don't think I can handle that there would just be nothing otherwise... I have literally been in tears over this... I have to know the answer, I can handle that it's not my answer, but I have to have trust in something... I think trust is the judgement of right/wrong that I spoke of.
So the zen statement means the mirror grasps nothing because it reflects back, and refuses nothing for the same reason, it has to take in in order to reflect...
All I am thinking now is that I was in a state of peace, I had a much better grip on allowing things to flow thru me... I felt like some kind of a monk... I guess I thought I had some level of enlightenment like I broke through some level of awareness that I thought brought me closer to what I thought God wanted me to be, an example of harmony on earth and now I feel like everything I knew was a lie and I don't know how I'm supposed to live my life anymore... I feel abandoned by God... like my state of peacefulness left me because when I try to find it where I where I think it should be, its not there...
So the zen statement means the mirror grasps nothing because it reflects back, and refuses nothing for the same reason, it has to take in in order to reflect...
All I am thinking now is that I was in a state of peace, I had a much better grip on allowing things to flow thru me... I felt like some kind of a monk... I guess I thought I had some level of enlightenment like I broke through some level of awareness that I thought brought me closer to what I thought God wanted me to be, an example of harmony on earth and now I feel like everything I knew was a lie and I don't know how I'm supposed to live my life anymore... I feel abandoned by God... like my state of peacefulness left me because when I try to find it where I where I think it should be, its not there...
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
Lets look at it from a different angle... You say "I have to have trust in something" - what is it that you are 100% sure of, that you can trust in, that is true? Is it anything from the past, anything that will be in the future or can it only be right here, right now? What is here, right now? Is there more than THIS - everything that you see, hear, feel and think right now? What are you if you are not a separate self / "I" thought?
How about:
It grasps nothing = it does not control
it refuses nothing = it does not judge
it receives but does not keep = it does not attach itself
Very much like a mirror, right?
How about:
It grasps nothing = it does not control
it refuses nothing = it does not judge
it receives but does not keep = it does not attach itself
Very much like a mirror, right?
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
I am the present experience... Everything that is just happening...
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
OK... a few days ago you wrote "I don't quite understand how you can see that there is no self, but then interact with other people who are clearly interacting with "you"."
How would you answer a question like:
What are "others" that are interacting with "you"?
Please also write a bit about how this realisation makes you feel.
How would you answer a question like:
What are "others" that are interacting with "you"?
Please also write a bit about how this realisation makes you feel.
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
They are experiences happening just like I am experiences happening, there is no doer, seer or hearer behind it...
Lol, I don't know that I can wrap my head around that one... I wish I'd never brought up about other ppl, lol... It seems too complex to think about the essence of other people... Like the mind folding in on itself..
Lol, I don't know that I can wrap my head around that one... I wish I'd never brought up about other ppl, lol... It seems too complex to think about the essence of other people... Like the mind folding in on itself..
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
If there is an essence of people, wouldn't there have to be centre? Is there a centre of experiencing? Can you experience a boundary where your experiencing starts?
The folding in of the mind is just a concept that you invent because you might feel that you are the centre of experiencing, but what if there are no folds?
The folding in of the mind is just a concept that you invent because you might feel that you are the centre of experiencing, but what if there are no folds?
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
If the essence being where thoughts are experienced, then yes, that would be considered a center...
Of course there are no folds, that's just an idea made up by the mind when it's confused, lol
Of course there are no folds, that's just an idea made up by the mind when it's confused, lol
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
Yes, well seen.Of course there are no folds, that's just an idea made up by the mind
Yes, very well, but how do you know that "they/others" are also "experiences happening"? You say that there is only experiencing, no doer, so seer... - true - but: can you experience that "others" are also experiencing? Are there any "others" experiencing?They are experiences happening just like I am experiences happening, there is no doer, seer or hearer behind it...
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
Experience just happens... "We" are all the exemplification of experience, "we" are the present...how do you know that "they/others" are also "experiences happening"?
"I" can't experience that others are experiencing, "I" can only assume because "we" are all one experience happening...can you experience that "others" are also experiencing? Are there any "others" experiencing?
When I ask if there are any others experiencing, nothing is there, just the void, lol
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
Hi October,
Yes, well seen, "we" are all one - experiencing.
Well, I think you got 'it' - do you see that you SEE?
Can you write a few sentences about what has changed since starting this dialogue.
Love
Alex
Yes, well seen, "we" are all one - experiencing.
Well, I think you got 'it' - do you see that you SEE?
Can you write a few sentences about what has changed since starting this dialogue.
Love
Alex
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
Lol, it was a little rocky there for a minute. The ego put up a good fight but "I" pressed on... It got to the point that "I" was literally laughing because no matter how hard "I" looked there was nothing there... Eventually it became clear that it really is that simple, there's no self there because there is no self... It's so obvious that it seems to be a joke, lol...
Things have gotten much simpler, there's a calmness and a sense of joy and happiness, it feels so good to realize that it's not necessary to feel pressure or stress or the need to make sure things happen in a certain way, or at all... It all just happens if "you" let go.
Thank "you" so much for "your" help and to everyone who makes Liberation Unleashed happen : )
Things have gotten much simpler, there's a calmness and a sense of joy and happiness, it feels so good to realize that it's not necessary to feel pressure or stress or the need to make sure things happen in a certain way, or at all... It all just happens if "you" let go.
Thank "you" so much for "your" help and to everyone who makes Liberation Unleashed happen : )
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
Hi October,
It was a great pleasure to guide you.
We have a certain routine here at LU. When someone has gone through the process we have to ask some final questions - I know you have answered them already some days ago, but as another 3 guides will be looking at that to confirm I would kindly ask you to have another go at them.
Once this is done I will invite you to join us in Facebook - there are a lot of great people that you can share experiences with or ask questions as they come up.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?
Love,
Alex
It was a great pleasure to guide you.
We have a certain routine here at LU. When someone has gone through the process we have to ask some final questions - I know you have answered them already some days ago, but as another 3 guides will be looking at that to confirm I would kindly ask you to have another go at them.
Once this is done I will invite you to join us in Facebook - there are a lot of great people that you can share experiences with or ask questions as they come up.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?
Love,
Alex
Re: Ok, I'm ready for a guide
No problem : )
1) Nope, never has been, when one looks for it, it isn't there.
2) It's just an idea that has been inferred since birth and became a part of conditioning... It becomes intertwined as a part of everyday life. When caught up in the illusion you take ownership of everything, my this, my that, me, I and it further solidifies this belief in a separate self. The illusion isn't realized until we look at it & see it for what it is. It is a lie that causes people to believe that we are all separate and creates stress and discord between us.
3) It feels liberating and peaceful to see past the illusion and separateness : ) Before I began the process it was very stressful. I felt lost and confused. It felt like prison, like I was being lead through life in a state of drama. Slowly the layers began to fall away. I kept looking, even insisting there was an answer, looking so hard I wasn't able to see how easy the answer was, lol.
4) Just facing the question over and over again, I even had a friend helping me, tirelessly asking, where is the self, finally I got to a point where all I could do was laugh, so convinced I couldn't find an answer because nothing was there... But that is it, nothing is there, lol!
5) There is no one to decide, intend, choose, or control. Life just happens, experiences just happen. In my experience all that is done is just going with the flow. Allowing life to flow freely. I observe happening, but ultimately there is no observer either. It's a feeling of harmony.
6) Looking forward to joining others on Facebook and deepening this connection : )
1) Nope, never has been, when one looks for it, it isn't there.
2) It's just an idea that has been inferred since birth and became a part of conditioning... It becomes intertwined as a part of everyday life. When caught up in the illusion you take ownership of everything, my this, my that, me, I and it further solidifies this belief in a separate self. The illusion isn't realized until we look at it & see it for what it is. It is a lie that causes people to believe that we are all separate and creates stress and discord between us.
3) It feels liberating and peaceful to see past the illusion and separateness : ) Before I began the process it was very stressful. I felt lost and confused. It felt like prison, like I was being lead through life in a state of drama. Slowly the layers began to fall away. I kept looking, even insisting there was an answer, looking so hard I wasn't able to see how easy the answer was, lol.
4) Just facing the question over and over again, I even had a friend helping me, tirelessly asking, where is the self, finally I got to a point where all I could do was laugh, so convinced I couldn't find an answer because nothing was there... But that is it, nothing is there, lol!
5) There is no one to decide, intend, choose, or control. Life just happens, experiences just happen. In my experience all that is done is just going with the flow. Allowing life to flow freely. I observe happening, but ultimately there is no observer either. It's a feeling of harmony.
6) Looking forward to joining others on Facebook and deepening this connection : )
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 48 guests