Would really appreciate a guide!

[Xain]

What is your view of 'I walked' now? Have 'you' ever walked . . . other than a thought about it?
No, there were only ever thoughts about it.

Ok - Good - Let's expand this:
Is there an 'I' here right now that can 'do things'?
Or are there only thoughts about an 'I' doing stuff? And stuff 'just happens'.
If it is unclear, look for an 'I' in your experience that is responsible for doing stuff - Find one?

Is 'past experiences and conditioning' anything more than a thought? Looking at 'ownership of experiences' - Is 'I have past experiences' anything more than a thought about a thought? .
No, it’s all just thought.

Is there an 'I' here right now that has any labels applied to it?

Can you find anything other than thoughts appearing? This is important.

Just to clarify was this meant regarding the past experiences and conditioning? Can’t find anything more to them than thought.

Sure - Ok, what about now?
Look! Examine your experience.
Can you find an 'I' with any form of conditioning here right now?
Can you find an 'I' here that has a history? Or just thoughts?
Can you find an 'I' here that has any form of conditioning?

I also realised, while focusing on direct experience, that the whole self thing collapses if you stick to the present moment and don't THINK about past and future.

I realised today that I’ve not quite been trying to see that there’s no I, I’ve been trying to see that ‘I’ am awareness.

Great! Two observations!

But . . .
Is there even an 'I' that focusses on Direct Experience? Or has there been 'focussing' and saying there was an 'I' doing it is just a thought about what happened?
Is there an 'I' that has been trying to see anything - Awareness or otherwise?

Is there an 'I' here right now that is doing this investigation . . . ?

Is there a seperate 'I' here right now that can be found - A real one that is believed to exist - Or just a thought?

Xain ♥

[aoife]

Is there an 'I' here right now that can 'do things'? Or are there only thoughts about an 'I' doing stuff? And stuff 'just happens'. If it is unclear, look for an 'I' in your experience that is responsible for doing stuff - Find one?

Nope, just stuff happening. No I can be found.

Is there an 'I' here right now that has any labels applied to it?

No. This question stopped me in my tracks a bit!

Can you find an 'I' with any form of conditioning here right now? Can you find an 'I' here that has a history? Or just thoughts? Can you find an 'I' here that has any form of conditioning?

No, all just thoughts.

Is there even an 'I' that focusses on Direct Experience? Or has there been 'focussing' and saying there was an 'I' doing it is just a thought about what happened?

Just focusing.

Is there an 'I' that has been trying to see anything - Awareness or otherwise?

No.

Is there an 'I' here right now that is doing this investigation . . . ? Is there a seperate 'I' here right now that can be found - A real one that is believed to exist - Or just a thought?

All just thought.

One thing I seem to be stuck on though is, there still seems to be an ‘in here’ and an ‘out there’ to some extent. I’ve been asking questions like, where is the boundary, but nothing has really clicked yet. Any questions that might help with that?

Thanks, great questions today!
Aoife

[Xain]

Thanks, great questions today!

Great replies!

One thing I seem to be stuck on though is, there still seems to be an ‘in here’ and an ‘out there’ to some extent. I’ve been asking questions like, where is the boundary, but nothing has really clicked yet. Any questions that might help with that?

Excellent question.
The senses may still appear to be located or 'operating from' a central point located in the area of the body.
But that is just 'how things are'.
It can be said that there is conditioning operating on a deeper level that gives this sense of sensory separation, and that may diminish or disappear in time. In my experience, this 'central point' of the senses is still operating, despite the realisation.

Again, this is going away from what is normally covered here, but the only questions I could ask on this subject are these.

This sentence is being seen. It is clear that there is no 'seer', no 'I' that sees this sentence. There is just 'seeing'.
So, what is the distance between this sentence, and that which sees it?

Can you hear sounds in the room?
Focus on a sound. It is clear that there is no 'hearer', no 'I' that hears that sound. There is just 'hearing'.
So, what is the distance between that sound, and that which hears it?

As I say, this is beyond our investigation here - These questions are for your own study . . .
Back to 'I' . . .

It is important for you to fully realise that the body is not 'I'. This is one of the most common assumptions.
We generally take the body to be 'I' as we assume the body operates the senses. However, I hope it is clear for you that 'seeing' just happens', 'feelings' just happens. There is no 'I' that sees, no 'I' that feels, hears etc..

So . . .
Is there a 'real' I here right now? Or just a thought / a bunch of thoughts?

Xain ♥

[aoife]

I can’t see my post from yesterday, not sure what happened! It was only to say I needed more time so no loss I guess.

It is important for you to fully realise that the body is not 'I'. This is one of the most common assumptions. We generally take the body to be 'I' as we assume the body operates the senses.

Hadn’t really thought to question that before. Does the body not operate the senses..? From direct experience I don’t know how to see this one way or another.

However, I hope it is clear for you that 'seeing' just happens', 'feelings' just happens. There is no 'I' that sees, no 'I' that feels, hears etc.. So . . . Is there a 'real' I here right now? Or just a thought / a bunch of thoughts?

Just a bunch of thoughts.

Thanks,
Aoife.

[Xain]

Hadn’t really thought to question that before. Does the body not operate the senses..?
From direct experience I don’t know how to see this one way or another.

Well take a look.

Let's take 'seeing'. Normally we say 'I see'. If we take ourselves to be a body, then it is assumed that the body operates that sense. So when we say 'I see', we mean 'the body sees'.

Examine experience. This sentence is being seen. Can you determine what is doing it? Is the body doing it?
Perhaps you may consider saying 'my eyes see the sentence' - Is this actual experience? Do you experience a pair of eyes seeing the screen? Or is that a thought about what is happening, rather than true experience?
Is there 'a body' seeing? Or is there just 'seeing'?

Check out the other senses.
Is there a body 'hearing'? Or is there just hearing?
Is there a body 'tasting'? Or is there just taste?

'I see' - Do you experience a seperate 'thing', 'I', 'me' seeing? Or is this just a thought?
'I hear' - Do you experience a separate 'thing', 'I', 'me' hearing? Or is this just a thought?

Xain ♥

[aoife]

Examine experience. This sentence is being seen. Can you determine what is doing it? Is the body doing it?
Perhaps you may consider saying 'my eyes see the sentence' - Is this actual experience? Do you experience a pair of eyes seeing the screen? Or is that a thought about what is happening, rather than true experience?
Is there 'a body' seeing? Or is there just 'seeing'?

I'm struggling with this a bit. This is probably going too much into thoughts but - in dreams if I didn't realise I was dreaming I would claim categorically that my eyes were seeing even though of course they're not. So I guess it's plausible. Too much thinking I know.

Check out the other senses.
Is there a body 'hearing'? Or is there just hearing?
Is there a body 'tasting'? Or is there just taste?

'I see' - Do you experience a seperate 'thing', 'I', 'me' seeing? Or is this just a thought?
'I hear' - Do you experience a separate 'thing', 'I', 'me' hearing? Or is this just a thought?

I suppose there isn't evidence outside of thought.

Not satisfactory answers I know. These are weird ones, I need to spend more time looking closely.

Thanks,
Aoife

[Xain]

. . . in dreams if I didn't realise I was dreaming I would claim categorically that my eyes were seeing even though of course they're not.

'I dream' - What is that one - The one that dreams?
'I realise' - What is 'I', the one that realises they are dreaming?
Have a look into your experience right now and try to locate this 'I' that could know if 'dreaming' or not?
Or are these just thoughts placed on experience?

How have you determined that 'eyes see' and the other parts of the body are not involved? Or is this a thought about what is happening and not actual experience?
What is 'I' in the phrase 'I see'? Something real that can be found right now in experience?

So I guess it's plausible

Can you not 'know' - What can be found? Just look. Examine your experience. What is really happening, and what is a thought about what is happening?

These are weird ones, I need to spend more time looking closely.

Sure - No problem at all. Take all the time you need to.
Perform the experiment and tell me what can be found.

However, I hope it is clear for you that 'seeing' just happens', 'feelings' just happens. There is no 'I' that sees, no 'I' that feels, hears etc.. So . . . Is there a 'real' I here right now? Or just a thought / a bunch of thoughts?

Just a bunch of thoughts.

But it would appear that there is an 'I' here right now that is seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting and experiencing thoughts . . . and that 'I' is the body. The body does those things. Is this the case?

Xain ♥

[aoife]

I need a little bit more time, I will answer the questions tomorrow.

Aoife.

[aoife]

'I dream' - What is that one - The one that dreams?
'I realise' - What is 'I', the one that realises they are dreaming?
Have a look into your experience right now and try to locate this 'I' that could know if 'dreaming' or not?
Or are these just thoughts placed on experience?

I was going to say the body dreams but there’s no proof of that. So there’s just dreaming and there’s just realising.
Just thoughts placed on experience.

How have you determined that 'eyes see' and the other parts of the body are not involved? Or is this a thought about what is happening and not actual experience?
What is 'I' in the phrase 'I see'? Something real that can be found right now in experience?

That is a very helpful way off looking at it. Although if the eyes are covered there’s no seeing so even if it’s not the full picture they are certainly critical to seeing, it would appear. Still can only find seeing but no see-er.

But it would appear that there is an 'I' here right now that is seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting and experiencing thoughts . . . and that 'I' is the body. The body does those things. Is this the case?

Yeah it’s certainly looking like that.

Today was the first time that I really saw directly that it would be possible for all this to be taking place without a self. So there is progress being made!

Thanks,
Aoife.

[Xain]

I was going to say the body dreams but there’s no proof of that. So there’s just dreaming and there’s just realising. Just thoughts placed on experience.

Cool. So to say 'I dream' is a thought about what happens. There is no 'I' that can be found that does it.

Although if the eyes are covered there’s no seeing

Well . . . 'seeing' is an experience. Isn't it true that experience is always 'on'.
If you cover your eyes, you see blackness but you don't stop seeing do you?

But it would appear that there is an 'I' here right now that is seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting and experiencing thoughts . . . and that 'I' is the body. The body does those things. Is this the case?

Yeah it’s certainly looking like that.

Look and examine your own experience carefully - Right here and now.
Do you experience a body 'seeing'? Or is there just 'seeing'?
Do you experience a body 'hearing'? Or is there just 'hearing'?

Today was the first time that I really saw directly that it would be possible for all this to be taking place without a self. So there is progress being made!

Good. Can you tell me more a little more about what you mean? How is this known?

Xain ♥

[aoife]

Well . . . 'seeing' is an experience. Isn't it true that experience is always 'on'.
If you cover your eyes, you see blackness but you don't stop seeing do you?

Yeah, good point.

Look and examine your own experience carefully - Right here and now.
Do you experience a body 'seeing'? Or is there just 'seeing'?
Do you experience a body 'hearing'? Or is there just 'hearing'?

Just seeing and just hearing.

Today was the first time that I really saw directly that it would be possible for all this to be taking place without a self. So there is progress being made!

Good. Can you tell me more a little more about what you mean? How is this known?

Well it’s always been clear that some actions were automatic and just reflexes. Like one time I was in the house alone and there was a loud noise and immediately I stopped dead in my tracks and listened carefully, which I found funny at the time because it’s exactly the same thing you see animals doing. ‘I’ didn’t do it, it was just a natural response. Now it seems like every action is like that, it’s just a response to a stimulus and there’s no thinker or doer required. I’m not sure I’d say I’m absolutely 100% certain that every action is like that but I’m 100% that every action could be a result of that. Like it’s obvious it would look exactly the same.
I keep trying to see the exact moment that a decision is made to take a certain action and I’ve never managed it. Surely if the thinker was making a decision about an action it would be obvious when the decision was reached, but it seems like all actions are like reflexes in that respect. I guess it’s obvious with reflexes that it’s not ‘me’ doing them because they’re sudden so there isn’t time for thought. For actions that aren’t sudden there’s thoughts circulating about how ‘I’m’ about to do something before it happens so it’s always been assumed that there was an I making the decision. All just thoughts of course.

So it seems like I’m not the doer or the thinker but I’m the watcher. So I guess you’re going to ask if there’s a watcher or just watching, I’m on it:P

Thanks,
Aoife

[Xain]

Just seeing and just hearing.

So does 'the body' perform any of the senses?

'Thoughts' are also sensed and appear in experience.
Is there an 'I' who thinks? Can you locate one? Do you experience a body that does 'thinking'?
Or are there just 'thoughts' appearing?

Is there a separate self, an 'I' that you can locate that controls what thoughts appear?
Is there any control of thoughts?
If there were, then surely it would be possible to only ever have nice/positive thoughts appearing?

Now it seems like every action is like that, it’s just a response to a stimulus and there’s no thinker or doer required. I’m not sure I’d say I’m absolutely 100% certain that every action is like that but I’m 100% that every action could be a result of that. Like it’s obvious it would look exactly the same.

A very interesting discovery!
Could it be that absolutely everything is completely automatic?

Do a little experiment.
Choose either your right or left hand.
Now raise that hand in the air.

Ok, now what 'chose' that particular hand? Examine your experience right now, and tell me what you can find that did the choosing?
Also, examine your experience and try to find what caused the hand to rise. What controlled the muscles of the arm?
What can you find that did that?

How many times have you breathed in and out today . . . was there a 'you' doing it?
Right now, take a few breaths in and out. Is there a separate self, an 'I' doing it?

I keep trying to see the exact moment that a decision is made to take a certain action and I’ve never managed it. Surely if the thinker was making a decision about an action it would be obvious when the decision was reached, but it seems like all actions are like reflexes in that respect. I guess it’s obvious with reflexes that it’s not ‘me’ doing them because they’re sudden so there isn’t time for thought.

Yes. You are on the right lines. But keep this simple. Try not to 'analyse' an answer. Just look into your experience.
Is there a 'chooser'? Is there a 'controller'?

So it seems like I’m not the doer or the thinker but I’m the watcher. So I guess you’re going to ask if there’s a watcher or just watching, I’m on it:P

LOL - You are getting to know the drill.

Notice that the mind wants to grasp on to something. The mind will only be satisfied once it has found a 'thing' that it can call 'me'. 'That's what I am, this thing'.
What if a separate 'thing' cannot be found?

Xain ♥

[aoife]

So does 'the body' perform any of the senses?

No.

Is there an 'I' who thinks? Can you locate one?

No.

Do you experience a body that does 'thinking'? Or are there just 'thoughts' appearing?

No, just thoughts appearing.

Is there a separate self, an 'I' that you can locate that controls what thoughts appear?

No.

Is there any control of thoughts?

No, thoughts just arise. Even when there’s thoughts claiming there’s control, those thoughts are just coming up automatically.

Could it be that absolutely everything is completely automatic?

Definitely looks like it from this side of things but it still isn’t obvious that there aren’t other selves directing other people’s behaviour. I’m surprised that isn’t somewhat clear by now. I don’t see why those beliefs aren’t weakening together. On one hand it’s becoming clear there’s no self here but can there be other if there’s no self?

Do a little experiment. Choose either your right or left hand.
Now raise that hand in the air. Ok, now what 'chose' that particular hand? Examine your experience right now, and tell me what you can find that did the choosing? Also, examine your experience and try to find what caused the hand to rise. What controlled the muscles of the arm? What can you find that did that?

Nothing can be found that made the choice or moved the hand.

How many times have you breathed in and out today . . . was there a 'you' doing it? Right now, take a few breaths in and out. Is there a separate self, an 'I' doing it?

No, it’s just happening.

Notice that the mind wants to grasp on to something. The mind will only be satisfied once it has found a 'thing' that it can call 'me'. 'That's what I am, this thing'. What if a separate 'thing' cannot be found?

Interesting question. I’ll need to think about that for a bit longer.

Thanks,
Aoife.

[Xain]

Great replies . . .

Could it be that absolutely everything is completely automatic?

Definitely looks like it from this side of things but it still isn’t obvious that there aren’t other selves directing other people’s behaviour. I’m surprised that isn’t somewhat clear by now.

What can you know about 'others'?
Can you know any truth about 'others' or just beliefs? Thoughts and ideas?
'Others' is for 'further looking' - All we do here in LU is look into 'I'.

I don’t see why those beliefs aren’t weakening together. On one hand it’s becoming clear there’s no self here but can there be other if there’s no self?

For the moment, concentrate on 'I'.

Is there an 'I' reading this sentence right now?
Is there an 'I' here right now, that is considering if they are reading this sentence or not?
Is there an 'I' here right now that is going to reply to me with the answers to these two questions?

Xain ♥

[aoife]

Sorry I missed yesterday!

What can you know about 'others'?
Can you know any truth about 'others' or just beliefs? Thoughts and ideas?
'Others' is for 'further looking' - All we do here in LU is look into 'I'.

Just thoughts.

Is there an 'I' reading this sentence right now?
Is there an 'I' here right now, that is considering if they are reading this sentence or not?
Is there an 'I' here right now that is going to reply to me with the answers to these two questions?

There’s reading and there’s considering and there’s observing of the reading and considering. That’s about it.

Notice that the mind wants to grasp on to something. The mind will only be satisfied once it has found a 'thing' that it can call 'me'. 'That's what I am, this thing'. What if a separate 'thing' cannot be found?

I’ve been thinking about this for a few days now but I’ve no answer for this.

Thanks,
Aoife