Dear Nettie,
"Yet there is awareness always with perception... Even if it is aliveness.
So it is a seamless timeless unitary flow. We call life.
Is there anything solid or stable or fixed?"
I am not sure i fully understand the question. But let me answer it telling you what i'm observing. There is typing, there are thoughts, there are fingers, there is doing, and a noticing of all of it. The noticing is stable in the way it is always on. Whether there is something fixed and solid depends on my perception: sometimes the objects appear more weightless and sometimes they appear to be more fixed and stable.
"Was there ever a separate self?
How do you suppose that illusion starts?"
Well, there was never a separate self. I think the illusion starts when we were kids and we learned that "habit" like we learned other conditioning. At the beginning it was more a game and then more and more we believed the thoughts and everyone around us. If our parents and friends all pretend like there is a self, at first we may think they they are "strange", but the more we see it around us, the more we give it importance and at some point we believe it. It is quite easy to fall for it because everything is "build" around a self in our society, which is created by the mind, the thoughts.
Love,
Ben
Nettie is available if you want a guide
-
Actuallyone
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:29 am
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Ben,
"Yet there is awareness always with perception... Even if it is aliveness.
So it is a seamless timeless unitary flow. We call life.
Is there anything solid or stable or fixed?"
"I am not sure i fully understand the question. But let me answer it telling you what i'm observing. There is typing, there are thoughts, there are fingers, there is doing, and a noticing of all of it. The noticing is stable in the way it is always on. Whether there is something fixed and solid depends on my perception: sometimes the objects appear more weightless and sometimes they appear to be more fixed and stable."
It appears stable because thought memory tells us it is. In actuality the flavor of awareness changes with the perception. See if it is like that or not.
""Was there ever a separate self?
How do you suppose that illusion starts?"
Well, there was never a separate self. I think the illusion starts when we were kids and we learned that "habit" like we learned other conditioning. At the beginning it was more a game and then more and more we believed the thoughts and everyone around us. If our parents and friends all pretend like there is a self, at first we may think they they are "strange", but the more we see it around us, the more we give it importance and at some point we believe it. It is quite easy to fall for it because everything is "build" around a self in our society, which is created by the mind, the thoughts. "
Nice.
Does it feel like you are the observer or awareness separate from the observed?
Love,
Nettie
"Yet there is awareness always with perception... Even if it is aliveness.
So it is a seamless timeless unitary flow. We call life.
Is there anything solid or stable or fixed?"
"I am not sure i fully understand the question. But let me answer it telling you what i'm observing. There is typing, there are thoughts, there are fingers, there is doing, and a noticing of all of it. The noticing is stable in the way it is always on. Whether there is something fixed and solid depends on my perception: sometimes the objects appear more weightless and sometimes they appear to be more fixed and stable."
It appears stable because thought memory tells us it is. In actuality the flavor of awareness changes with the perception. See if it is like that or not.
""Was there ever a separate self?
How do you suppose that illusion starts?"
Well, there was never a separate self. I think the illusion starts when we were kids and we learned that "habit" like we learned other conditioning. At the beginning it was more a game and then more and more we believed the thoughts and everyone around us. If our parents and friends all pretend like there is a self, at first we may think they they are "strange", but the more we see it around us, the more we give it importance and at some point we believe it. It is quite easy to fall for it because everything is "build" around a self in our society, which is created by the mind, the thoughts. "
Nice.
Does it feel like you are the observer or awareness separate from the observed?
Love,
Nettie
-
Actuallyone
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:29 am
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Nettie,
"It appears stable because thought memory tells us it is. In actuality the flavor of awareness changes with the perception. See if it is like that or not."
Yes, it appears to be stable only due to my memory. It's amazing how i get to know "the world" again without the filter of memory. In a few moments, i could see how all objects are very "light", not defined as stable or fixed or whatever, always dynamic and alive! The conditioning of looking at the world through memory comes in quite a lot. But the aliveness of the lightness feels true and real; the looking through memory feels heavy and distant. Life is afresh in each moment, there is an alertness and an innocence similar to an animal or a baby - playfulness and astonishment.
"Does it feel like you are the observer or awareness separate from the observed?"
There is no distance or separation beteeen what is seen and the "seer". That was is seeing or noticing is everywhere and the observed is also right there. They go together. It is seamless and it is immediate. There is no looking from here to there or there to here. There is awareness and in this awareness the objects appear. Effortless. Without anyone doing anything. And it is alive. And there is joy and love.
Much Love,
Ben
"It appears stable because thought memory tells us it is. In actuality the flavor of awareness changes with the perception. See if it is like that or not."
Yes, it appears to be stable only due to my memory. It's amazing how i get to know "the world" again without the filter of memory. In a few moments, i could see how all objects are very "light", not defined as stable or fixed or whatever, always dynamic and alive! The conditioning of looking at the world through memory comes in quite a lot. But the aliveness of the lightness feels true and real; the looking through memory feels heavy and distant. Life is afresh in each moment, there is an alertness and an innocence similar to an animal or a baby - playfulness and astonishment.
"Does it feel like you are the observer or awareness separate from the observed?"
There is no distance or separation beteeen what is seen and the "seer". That was is seeing or noticing is everywhere and the observed is also right there. They go together. It is seamless and it is immediate. There is no looking from here to there or there to here. There is awareness and in this awareness the objects appear. Effortless. Without anyone doing anything. And it is alive. And there is joy and love.
Much Love,
Ben
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Ben,
"Yes, it appears to be stable only due to my memory. It's amazing how i get to know "the world" again without the filter of memory. In a few moments, i could see how all objects are very "light", not defined as stable or fixed or whatever, always dynamic and alive! The conditioning of looking at the world through memory comes in quite a lot. But the aliveness of the lightness feels true and real; the looking through memory feels heavy and distant. Life is afresh in each moment, there is an alertness and an innocence similar to an animal or a baby - playfulness and astonishment."
Yet memory is part of the seamless unitary flow. Yes?
"Does it feel like you are the observer or awareness separate from the observed?"
"There is no distance or separation beteeen what is seen and the "seer". That was is seeing or noticing is everywhere and the observed is also right there. They go together. It is seamless and it is immediate. There is no looking from here to there or there to here. There is awareness and in this awareness the objects appear. Effortless. Without anyone doing anything. And it is alive. And there is joy and love."
Lovely!
Do you feel you have seem through the illusion of separation?
Are you ready for the final questions?
Much Love,
Nettie
"Yes, it appears to be stable only due to my memory. It's amazing how i get to know "the world" again without the filter of memory. In a few moments, i could see how all objects are very "light", not defined as stable or fixed or whatever, always dynamic and alive! The conditioning of looking at the world through memory comes in quite a lot. But the aliveness of the lightness feels true and real; the looking through memory feels heavy and distant. Life is afresh in each moment, there is an alertness and an innocence similar to an animal or a baby - playfulness and astonishment."
Yet memory is part of the seamless unitary flow. Yes?
"Does it feel like you are the observer or awareness separate from the observed?"
"There is no distance or separation beteeen what is seen and the "seer". That was is seeing or noticing is everywhere and the observed is also right there. They go together. It is seamless and it is immediate. There is no looking from here to there or there to here. There is awareness and in this awareness the objects appear. Effortless. Without anyone doing anything. And it is alive. And there is joy and love."
Lovely!
Do you feel you have seem through the illusion of separation?
Are you ready for the final questions?
Much Love,
Nettie
-
Actuallyone
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:29 am
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Nettie,
“Yet memory is part of the seamless unitary flow. Yes?”
Yes, it is part of the flow, but it is there quite frequent and at times relatively strong. In some “moments”, everything is “crystal clear” and light, and in many moments, there is contraction in the head and looking through memory.
“Do you feel you have seem through the illusion of separation?
Are you ready for the final questions?”
Well, that’s a good question. I am not sure. There are moments, in which everything is crystal clear, there is no self, no separation, everything just happening, the story of the self is seen, the illusions of separation. Yet, at the same time, the appearance of looking through memory, an appearance of a seeming self, etc. are still there. At the same time, I can see that those are just appearances, but due to their “heaviness” or heavy conditioning they “feel real” sometimes. At the same time, there is weightlessness and joy as a strong “background”. There is a strong “peace” present.
Net, there is some confusion, which feels a bit that something does not want to take the last step (although it may have already been taken?).
Much Love,
Ben
“Yet memory is part of the seamless unitary flow. Yes?”
Yes, it is part of the flow, but it is there quite frequent and at times relatively strong. In some “moments”, everything is “crystal clear” and light, and in many moments, there is contraction in the head and looking through memory.
“Do you feel you have seem through the illusion of separation?
Are you ready for the final questions?”
Well, that’s a good question. I am not sure. There are moments, in which everything is crystal clear, there is no self, no separation, everything just happening, the story of the self is seen, the illusions of separation. Yet, at the same time, the appearance of looking through memory, an appearance of a seeming self, etc. are still there. At the same time, I can see that those are just appearances, but due to their “heaviness” or heavy conditioning they “feel real” sometimes. At the same time, there is weightlessness and joy as a strong “background”. There is a strong “peace” present.
Net, there is some confusion, which feels a bit that something does not want to take the last step (although it may have already been taken?).
Much Love,
Ben
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Ben,
“Yet memory is part of the seamless unitary flow. Yes?”
Yes, it is part of the flow, but it is there quite frequent and at times relatively strong. In some “moments”, everything is “crystal clear” and light, and in many moments, there is contraction in the head and looking through memory. "
Contradictions are thoughts comparing perceptions....and like everything else happen without effort.
"“Do you feel you have seem through the illusion of separation?
Are you ready for the final questions?”
Well, that’s a good question. I am not sure. There are moments, in which everything is crystal clear, there is no self, no separation, everything just happening, the story of the self is seen, the illusions of separation. Yet, at the same time, the appearance of looking through memory, an appearance of a seeming self, etc. are still there. At the same time, I can see that those are just appearances, but due to their “heaviness” or heavy conditioning they “feel real” sometimes. At the same time, there is weightlessness and joy as a strong “background”. There is a strong “peace” present.
Net, there is some confusion, which feels a bit that something does not want to take the last step (although it may have already been taken?). "
Notice how the feeling of clarity arises spontaneously and is simultaneously recognized... Equally as the perception of cloudiness...
Effort and effortlessness arise effortlessly.... No do-er...no controller...
And no problem... We chat here until you are ready. I love chatting!
....and descriptions made of learned words like shots in the dark never pinpoint reality... they appear utterly unbidden and unstoppable... and when many arise they pretend to arise from different viewpoints...to triangulate ...to surround...to lasso this edgelessness....and you seem to be in the middle lost in this ocean of thinking...yet are found to be merely more of that unfindable nothingness...
...like water rushing over rocks skipping down the canyon ... laughing singing glittering...
....sparking in the hot sun unavoidably pouring its heart out into the sea...
....this mind boggling non-dimensional all-encompassing super fantastic knock yer socks off amazing brilliant immediacy.....always on...
....totally spontaneous ...simply irrevocably so.
So could you say that life is pin down able? Can it ever be captured? Does it feel like you are still searching for something other?
Love,
Nettie
“Yet memory is part of the seamless unitary flow. Yes?”
Yes, it is part of the flow, but it is there quite frequent and at times relatively strong. In some “moments”, everything is “crystal clear” and light, and in many moments, there is contraction in the head and looking through memory. "
Contradictions are thoughts comparing perceptions....and like everything else happen without effort.
"“Do you feel you have seem through the illusion of separation?
Are you ready for the final questions?”
Well, that’s a good question. I am not sure. There are moments, in which everything is crystal clear, there is no self, no separation, everything just happening, the story of the self is seen, the illusions of separation. Yet, at the same time, the appearance of looking through memory, an appearance of a seeming self, etc. are still there. At the same time, I can see that those are just appearances, but due to their “heaviness” or heavy conditioning they “feel real” sometimes. At the same time, there is weightlessness and joy as a strong “background”. There is a strong “peace” present.
Net, there is some confusion, which feels a bit that something does not want to take the last step (although it may have already been taken?). "
Notice how the feeling of clarity arises spontaneously and is simultaneously recognized... Equally as the perception of cloudiness...
Effort and effortlessness arise effortlessly.... No do-er...no controller...
And no problem... We chat here until you are ready. I love chatting!
....and descriptions made of learned words like shots in the dark never pinpoint reality... they appear utterly unbidden and unstoppable... and when many arise they pretend to arise from different viewpoints...to triangulate ...to surround...to lasso this edgelessness....and you seem to be in the middle lost in this ocean of thinking...yet are found to be merely more of that unfindable nothingness...
...like water rushing over rocks skipping down the canyon ... laughing singing glittering...
....sparking in the hot sun unavoidably pouring its heart out into the sea...
....this mind boggling non-dimensional all-encompassing super fantastic knock yer socks off amazing brilliant immediacy.....always on...
....totally spontaneous ...simply irrevocably so.
So could you say that life is pin down able? Can it ever be captured? Does it feel like you are still searching for something other?
Love,
Nettie
-
Actuallyone
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:29 am
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Nettie,
"Notice how the feeling of clarity arises spontaneously and is simultaneously recognized... Equally as the perception of cloudiness...
Effort and effortlessness arise effortlessly.... No do-er...no controller..."
Yes, noticing how everything is arising and being recognized. Everything is just happening. Even the tension and the identification with a body or doer at times, also noticing that.
"And no problem... We chat here until you are ready. I love chatting!"
I appreciate your patience and am deeply grateful for the guidance.
"So could you say that life is pin down able? Can it ever be captured? Does it feel like you are still searching for something other?"
Life can never be captured by any thoughts or objects or words. Life is wide, fluid, seamless, spontaneous, and thoughts try to catch what is untouchable.
It feels like there are two answers to your question, depending on the "moment" or situations. At times, there is immense clarity, and there is only life happening, and there is no search. And at other times, there is an identification with the body, doer, in which there seems to be spearation, and wanting not to be the doer. The life happening without doer is getting "stronger" though or occurs more frequently. But there is no self.
Love,
Ben
"Notice how the feeling of clarity arises spontaneously and is simultaneously recognized... Equally as the perception of cloudiness...
Effort and effortlessness arise effortlessly.... No do-er...no controller..."
Yes, noticing how everything is arising and being recognized. Everything is just happening. Even the tension and the identification with a body or doer at times, also noticing that.
"And no problem... We chat here until you are ready. I love chatting!"
I appreciate your patience and am deeply grateful for the guidance.
"So could you say that life is pin down able? Can it ever be captured? Does it feel like you are still searching for something other?"
Life can never be captured by any thoughts or objects or words. Life is wide, fluid, seamless, spontaneous, and thoughts try to catch what is untouchable.
It feels like there are two answers to your question, depending on the "moment" or situations. At times, there is immense clarity, and there is only life happening, and there is no search. And at other times, there is an identification with the body, doer, in which there seems to be spearation, and wanting not to be the doer. The life happening without doer is getting "stronger" though or occurs more frequently. But there is no self.
Love,
Ben
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Ben,
"Yes, noticing how everything is arising and being recognized. Everything is just happening. Even the tension and the identification with a body or doer at times, also noticing that. "
Yes!
"Life can never be captured by any thoughts or objects or words. Life is wide, fluid, seamless, spontaneous, and thoughts try to catch what is untouchable. "
Yes! Cool huh?
"It feels like there are two answers to your question, depending on the "moment" or situations. At times, there is immense clarity, and there is only life happening, and there is no search. And at other times, there is an identification with the body, doer, in which there seems to be spearation, and wanting not to be the doer. The life happening without doer is getting "stronger" though or occurs more frequently. But there is no self. "
So notice how the feeling of identifying with the body happens absolutely unbidden. Spontaneously. Without you doing a thing. And is recognized simultaneously. Effortlessly.
And there is no separate you who can step outside of this seamless timeless all-encompassing unitary flow and stop it or change it or control it in any way. Life simply spontaneously naturally effortlessly happens all by itself.
Is there a thinker?
A controller?
A do-er?
Love,
Nettie
"Yes, noticing how everything is arising and being recognized. Everything is just happening. Even the tension and the identification with a body or doer at times, also noticing that. "
Yes!
"Life can never be captured by any thoughts or objects or words. Life is wide, fluid, seamless, spontaneous, and thoughts try to catch what is untouchable. "
Yes! Cool huh?
"It feels like there are two answers to your question, depending on the "moment" or situations. At times, there is immense clarity, and there is only life happening, and there is no search. And at other times, there is an identification with the body, doer, in which there seems to be spearation, and wanting not to be the doer. The life happening without doer is getting "stronger" though or occurs more frequently. But there is no self. "
So notice how the feeling of identifying with the body happens absolutely unbidden. Spontaneously. Without you doing a thing. And is recognized simultaneously. Effortlessly.
And there is no separate you who can step outside of this seamless timeless all-encompassing unitary flow and stop it or change it or control it in any way. Life simply spontaneously naturally effortlessly happens all by itself.
Is there a thinker?
A controller?
A do-er?
Love,
Nettie
-
Actuallyone
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:29 am
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Nettie,
"Life can never be captured by any thoughts or objects or words. Life is wide, fluid, seamless, spontaneous, and thoughts try to catch what is untouchable. "
Yes! Cool huh?"
It is super cool :) an amazing playground.
"So notice how the feeling of identifying with the body happens absolutely unbidden. Spontaneously. Without you doing a thing. And is recognized simultaneously. Effortlessly.
And there is no separate you who can step outside of this seamless timeless all-encompassing unitary flow and stop it or change it or control it in any way. Life simply spontaneously naturally effortlessly happens all by itself."
There is an immense playfulness in that, which is also noticed, and sometimes i can see there is a pattern going on to try to grasp that clarity and make it permanent. Right now, i can see how that also occurs. And something else occurs. All of it. All of life, there is nothing but life, there can never be something other than life.
"Is there a thinker?
A controller?
A do-er?"
There is no thinker - only thoughts.
There is no controller - life just happening. Thoughts appearing, action appearing. If at all, thoughts may give a "command" to the body, but nobody being involved in that.
There is no doer. These fingers are typing. The body is breathing.
Much Love,
Ben
"Life can never be captured by any thoughts or objects or words. Life is wide, fluid, seamless, spontaneous, and thoughts try to catch what is untouchable. "
Yes! Cool huh?"
It is super cool :) an amazing playground.
"So notice how the feeling of identifying with the body happens absolutely unbidden. Spontaneously. Without you doing a thing. And is recognized simultaneously. Effortlessly.
And there is no separate you who can step outside of this seamless timeless all-encompassing unitary flow and stop it or change it or control it in any way. Life simply spontaneously naturally effortlessly happens all by itself."
There is an immense playfulness in that, which is also noticed, and sometimes i can see there is a pattern going on to try to grasp that clarity and make it permanent. Right now, i can see how that also occurs. And something else occurs. All of it. All of life, there is nothing but life, there can never be something other than life.
"Is there a thinker?
A controller?
A do-er?"
There is no thinker - only thoughts.
There is no controller - life just happening. Thoughts appearing, action appearing. If at all, thoughts may give a "command" to the body, but nobody being involved in that.
There is no doer. These fingers are typing. The body is breathing.
Much Love,
Ben
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Ben,
"Life can never be captured by any thoughts or objects or words. Life is wide, fluid, seamless, spontaneous, and thoughts try to catch what is untouchable. "
Yes! Cool huh?"
It is super cool :) an amazing playground.
"So notice how the feeling of identifying with the body happens absolutely unbidden. Spontaneously. Without you doing a thing. And is recognized simultaneously. Effortlessly.
And there is no separate you who can step outside of this seamless timeless all-encompassing unitary flow and stop it or change it or control it in any way. Life simply spontaneously naturally effortlessly happens all by itself."
"There is an immense playfulness in that, which is also noticed, and sometimes i can see there is a pattern going on to try to grasp that clarity and make it permanent. Right now, i can see how that also occurs. And something else occurs. All of it. All of life, there is nothing but life, there can never be something other than life. "
""Is there a thinker?
A controller?
A do-er?"
There is no thinker - only thoughts.
There is no controller - life just happening. Thoughts appearing, action appearing. If at all, thoughts may give a "command" to the body, but nobody being involved in that.
There is no doer. These fingers are typing. The body is breathing. "
How beautiful!
Is there a feeling like you are awareness or observer separate from the flow?
How do you suppose the illusion of a separate self begins?
Much Love,
Nettie
"Life can never be captured by any thoughts or objects or words. Life is wide, fluid, seamless, spontaneous, and thoughts try to catch what is untouchable. "
Yes! Cool huh?"
It is super cool :) an amazing playground.
"So notice how the feeling of identifying with the body happens absolutely unbidden. Spontaneously. Without you doing a thing. And is recognized simultaneously. Effortlessly.
And there is no separate you who can step outside of this seamless timeless all-encompassing unitary flow and stop it or change it or control it in any way. Life simply spontaneously naturally effortlessly happens all by itself."
"There is an immense playfulness in that, which is also noticed, and sometimes i can see there is a pattern going on to try to grasp that clarity and make it permanent. Right now, i can see how that also occurs. And something else occurs. All of it. All of life, there is nothing but life, there can never be something other than life. "
""Is there a thinker?
A controller?
A do-er?"
There is no thinker - only thoughts.
There is no controller - life just happening. Thoughts appearing, action appearing. If at all, thoughts may give a "command" to the body, but nobody being involved in that.
There is no doer. These fingers are typing. The body is breathing. "
How beautiful!
Is there a feeling like you are awareness or observer separate from the flow?
How do you suppose the illusion of a separate self begins?
Much Love,
Nettie
-
Actuallyone
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:29 am
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Nettie,
""Is there a thinker?
A controller?
A do-er?"
There is no thinker - only thoughts.
There is no controller - life just happening. Thoughts appearing, action appearing. If at all, thoughts may give a "command" to the body, but nobody being involved in that.
There is no doer. These fingers are typing. The body is breathing.
How beautiful!"
Before going into the questions below, I suggest I will stay with the question of whether there is a thinker, controller or do-er. There are "moments", in which it is very clear that there is no such thing/ entitiy, but in more moments, i notice that there is still a relatively strong belief in labels. I just feel that before moving to the next question, it would be good to be crystal clear about this, so it is seen not just momentary, but througout the day.
Is there a feeling like you are awareness or observer separate from the flow?
How do you suppose the illusion of a separate self begins?
Much Love,
Ben
""Is there a thinker?
A controller?
A do-er?"
There is no thinker - only thoughts.
There is no controller - life just happening. Thoughts appearing, action appearing. If at all, thoughts may give a "command" to the body, but nobody being involved in that.
There is no doer. These fingers are typing. The body is breathing.
How beautiful!"
Before going into the questions below, I suggest I will stay with the question of whether there is a thinker, controller or do-er. There are "moments", in which it is very clear that there is no such thing/ entitiy, but in more moments, i notice that there is still a relatively strong belief in labels. I just feel that before moving to the next question, it would be good to be crystal clear about this, so it is seen not just momentary, but througout the day.
Is there a feeling like you are awareness or observer separate from the flow?
How do you suppose the illusion of a separate self begins?
Much Love,
Ben
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Ben,
""Is there a thinker?
A controller?
A do-er?"
There is no thinker - only thoughts.
There is no controller - life just happening. Thoughts appearing, action appearing. If at all, thoughts may give a "command" to the body, but nobody being involved in that.
There is no doer. These fingers are typing. The body is breathing."
How beautiful!
"Before going into the questions below, I suggest I will stay with the question of whether there is a thinker, controller or do-er. There are "moments", in which it is very clear that there is no such thing/ entitiy, but in more moments, i notice that there is still a relatively strong belief in labels. I just feel that before moving to the next question, it would be good to be crystal clear about this, so it is seen not just momentary, but througout the day. "
Lovely! Thought is composed of learned shared words....and it seems to divide the timeless flow into 'bits' that includes a separate you. And this all happens effortlessly....and is there a you who can step outside of this all-encompassing un-compounded unicity to change or re-arrange or add to or subtract any other part less part?
It would be like the sky itself trying to cut out a piece of the sky and put it someplace else.
So does life simply spontaneously naturally effortlessly happen all by itself?
Notice that all indivisible perceptions...thoughts sights sounds etc. spontaneously arise and are naturally labeled without a you doing a thing. Totally effortlessly. Believing the label or not also happens utterly effortlessly. Without a you having to do anything.
The story of you continues.... Yet it is seen as a story.
Do words actually divide this seamless timeless unitary flow?
Can you tell where one perception ends and another begins?
Can you put two isolated perceptions side by side and compare them?
If there is really no isolating or comparing them than how could there actually be a better or worse?
And if there is no isolating separate events, how could there be cause and effect?
Much love,
Nettie
(I am going to be traveling the next day so might take longer to respond)
""Is there a thinker?
A controller?
A do-er?"
There is no thinker - only thoughts.
There is no controller - life just happening. Thoughts appearing, action appearing. If at all, thoughts may give a "command" to the body, but nobody being involved in that.
There is no doer. These fingers are typing. The body is breathing."
How beautiful!
"Before going into the questions below, I suggest I will stay with the question of whether there is a thinker, controller or do-er. There are "moments", in which it is very clear that there is no such thing/ entitiy, but in more moments, i notice that there is still a relatively strong belief in labels. I just feel that before moving to the next question, it would be good to be crystal clear about this, so it is seen not just momentary, but througout the day. "
Lovely! Thought is composed of learned shared words....and it seems to divide the timeless flow into 'bits' that includes a separate you. And this all happens effortlessly....and is there a you who can step outside of this all-encompassing un-compounded unicity to change or re-arrange or add to or subtract any other part less part?
It would be like the sky itself trying to cut out a piece of the sky and put it someplace else.
So does life simply spontaneously naturally effortlessly happen all by itself?
Notice that all indivisible perceptions...thoughts sights sounds etc. spontaneously arise and are naturally labeled without a you doing a thing. Totally effortlessly. Believing the label or not also happens utterly effortlessly. Without a you having to do anything.
The story of you continues.... Yet it is seen as a story.
Do words actually divide this seamless timeless unitary flow?
Can you tell where one perception ends and another begins?
Can you put two isolated perceptions side by side and compare them?
If there is really no isolating or comparing them than how could there actually be a better or worse?
And if there is no isolating separate events, how could there be cause and effect?
Much love,
Nettie
(I am going to be traveling the next day so might take longer to respond)
-
Actuallyone
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:29 am
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Nettie,
Thanks for letting me know that you may reply a bit later. I really appreciate chatting and your usual fast responses!
"Lovely! Thought is composed of learned shared words....and it seems to divide the timeless flow into 'bits' that includes a separate you. And this all happens effortlessly....and is there a you who can step outside of this all-encompassing un-compounded unicity to change or re-arrange or add to or subtract any other part less part?
It would be like the sky itself trying to cut out a piece of the sky and put it someplace else.
So does life simply spontaneously naturally effortlessly happen all by itself?
Notice that all indivisible perceptions...thoughts sights sounds etc. spontaneously arise and are naturally labeled without a you doing a thing. Totally effortlessly. Believing the label or not also happens utterly effortlessly. Without a you having to do anything."
That's beautiful and a great pointer helping to look further, to look into areas that I have not seen before. I have observed yesterday and today how the thoughts are always trying to be separate from everything else, how they try to separate a self from the rest of the world, while they are part of everything. Seemingly, there is a tendency to sort of take a break, step out of of the flow of life and "think" about the next action etc. while even that is part of the entire flow. That's beautiful to see.
"The story of you continues.... Yet it is seen as a story."
Many times, it is only seen AFTER some actions that the story of the you is made up or only appears to be true, but not DURING it happens, at least more times after than during. But the more I look, the more there is an observation DURING the action.
"Do words actually divide this seamless timeless unitary flow?"
They only seemingly divide the flow, but not actually. Many times, they make it seem like they stop the flow and set up new action, but even that is part of the timeless, uncontrollable flow.
"Can you tell where one perception ends and another begins?"
Perceptions are ongoing, seamless, un-graspable for the mind/ thoughts, and they only appear separate through the labeling of the mind, but actually they are just going on, they don't end and do not begin, at least not recognizable. The labeling is trying to catch them, but cannot touch them at all times.
"Can you put two isolated perceptions side by side and compare them?"
No, that can only happen with thoughts, which does not impact the flow of life, it is actually part of it. Also thoughts just appear and are part of that flow. So, seemingly that appears to be true many times, but in other times i can see that the flow of life is just going on.
"If there is really no isolating or comparing them than how could there actually be a better or worse?"
The better worse only appears on a labeling level and stops there. There are only perceptions and appearances of objects, but nothing good or bad. Sounds appear, looking appears, hands appear, thoughts appear labeling that, but none of that is good or bad. It only appears to be such if there is a belief in labels, which also appears in the flow of life.
And if there is no isolating separate events, how could there be cause and effect?
"i guess even if there was cause and effect, it would not matter so much, because we have seen that we cannot influence the cause. But, yes, cause and effect only exists on a label level, but not in actuality. When we see that the labels are just labels, they are not taking for reality, and then things such as cause and effect have no relevance.
Much love,
Ben
Thanks for letting me know that you may reply a bit later. I really appreciate chatting and your usual fast responses!
"Lovely! Thought is composed of learned shared words....and it seems to divide the timeless flow into 'bits' that includes a separate you. And this all happens effortlessly....and is there a you who can step outside of this all-encompassing un-compounded unicity to change or re-arrange or add to or subtract any other part less part?
It would be like the sky itself trying to cut out a piece of the sky and put it someplace else.
So does life simply spontaneously naturally effortlessly happen all by itself?
Notice that all indivisible perceptions...thoughts sights sounds etc. spontaneously arise and are naturally labeled without a you doing a thing. Totally effortlessly. Believing the label or not also happens utterly effortlessly. Without a you having to do anything."
That's beautiful and a great pointer helping to look further, to look into areas that I have not seen before. I have observed yesterday and today how the thoughts are always trying to be separate from everything else, how they try to separate a self from the rest of the world, while they are part of everything. Seemingly, there is a tendency to sort of take a break, step out of of the flow of life and "think" about the next action etc. while even that is part of the entire flow. That's beautiful to see.
"The story of you continues.... Yet it is seen as a story."
Many times, it is only seen AFTER some actions that the story of the you is made up or only appears to be true, but not DURING it happens, at least more times after than during. But the more I look, the more there is an observation DURING the action.
"Do words actually divide this seamless timeless unitary flow?"
They only seemingly divide the flow, but not actually. Many times, they make it seem like they stop the flow and set up new action, but even that is part of the timeless, uncontrollable flow.
"Can you tell where one perception ends and another begins?"
Perceptions are ongoing, seamless, un-graspable for the mind/ thoughts, and they only appear separate through the labeling of the mind, but actually they are just going on, they don't end and do not begin, at least not recognizable. The labeling is trying to catch them, but cannot touch them at all times.
"Can you put two isolated perceptions side by side and compare them?"
No, that can only happen with thoughts, which does not impact the flow of life, it is actually part of it. Also thoughts just appear and are part of that flow. So, seemingly that appears to be true many times, but in other times i can see that the flow of life is just going on.
"If there is really no isolating or comparing them than how could there actually be a better or worse?"
The better worse only appears on a labeling level and stops there. There are only perceptions and appearances of objects, but nothing good or bad. Sounds appear, looking appears, hands appear, thoughts appear labeling that, but none of that is good or bad. It only appears to be such if there is a belief in labels, which also appears in the flow of life.
And if there is no isolating separate events, how could there be cause and effect?
"i guess even if there was cause and effect, it would not matter so much, because we have seen that we cannot influence the cause. But, yes, cause and effect only exists on a label level, but not in actuality. When we see that the labels are just labels, they are not taking for reality, and then things such as cause and effect have no relevance.
Much love,
Ben
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Ben,
"I have observed yesterday and today how the thoughts are always trying to be separate from everything else, how they try to separate a self from the rest of the world, while they are part of everything."
The thought tries?
" Seemingly, there is a tendency to sort of take a break, step out of of the flow of life and "think" about the next action etc. while even that is part of the entire flow. That's beautiful to see. "
Yes... It "seems" so.
"Many times, it is only seen AFTER some actions that the story of the you is made up or only appears to be true, but not DURING it happens, at least more times after than during. But the more I look, the more there is an observation DURING the action. "
Look! It only takes a second to look!
Look! Is there a separate self? Does it have shape or color or qualities or characteristics that are unchanging? Can you bring it to me and put it on a shelf?
"(Words) They only seemingly divide the flow, but not actually. Many times, they make it seem like they stop the flow and set up new action, but even that is part of the timeless, uncontrollable flow. "
Yes!
""Can you tell where one perception ends and another begins?"
Perceptions are ongoing, seamless, un-graspable for the mind/ thoughts, and they only appear separate through the labeling of the mind, but actually they are just going on, they don't end and do not begin, at least not recognizable. The labeling is trying to catch them, but cannot touch them at all times."
Can word thought ever capture the flow?
"Can you put two isolated perceptions side by side and compare them?"
"No, that can only happen with thoughts, which does not impact the flow of life, it is actually part of it. Also thoughts just appear and are part of that flow. So, seemingly that appears to be true many times, but in other times i can see that the flow of life is just going on. "
If it appears to be life simply going on when examined... Wouldn't it be simply so when not examined?
"The better worse only appears on a labeling level and stops there. There are only perceptions and appearances of objects, but nothing good or bad. Sounds appear, looking appears, hands appear, thoughts appear labeling that, but none of that is good or bad. It only appears to be such if there is a belief in labels, which also appears in the flow of life."
Yes. And the appearance of objects is thought labeling perception? Spontaneously occurring.
And if there is no isolating separate events, how could there be cause and effect?
"i guess even if there was cause and effect, it would not matter so much, because we have seen that we cannot influence the cause. But, yes, cause and effect only exists on a label level, but not in actuality. When we see that the labels are just labels, they are not taking for reality, and then things such as cause and effect have no relevance.
Yet... Not just relevance.., if there is no sticking a 'knife blade' in the flow of thought/perception. There are actually no separate events?
And is there a separate you who could step outside of this flow and isolate an event or a separate 'thing'?
Love,
Nettie
"I have observed yesterday and today how the thoughts are always trying to be separate from everything else, how they try to separate a self from the rest of the world, while they are part of everything."
The thought tries?
" Seemingly, there is a tendency to sort of take a break, step out of of the flow of life and "think" about the next action etc. while even that is part of the entire flow. That's beautiful to see. "
Yes... It "seems" so.
"Many times, it is only seen AFTER some actions that the story of the you is made up or only appears to be true, but not DURING it happens, at least more times after than during. But the more I look, the more there is an observation DURING the action. "
Look! It only takes a second to look!
Look! Is there a separate self? Does it have shape or color or qualities or characteristics that are unchanging? Can you bring it to me and put it on a shelf?
"(Words) They only seemingly divide the flow, but not actually. Many times, they make it seem like they stop the flow and set up new action, but even that is part of the timeless, uncontrollable flow. "
Yes!
""Can you tell where one perception ends and another begins?"
Perceptions are ongoing, seamless, un-graspable for the mind/ thoughts, and they only appear separate through the labeling of the mind, but actually they are just going on, they don't end and do not begin, at least not recognizable. The labeling is trying to catch them, but cannot touch them at all times."
Can word thought ever capture the flow?
"Can you put two isolated perceptions side by side and compare them?"
"No, that can only happen with thoughts, which does not impact the flow of life, it is actually part of it. Also thoughts just appear and are part of that flow. So, seemingly that appears to be true many times, but in other times i can see that the flow of life is just going on. "
If it appears to be life simply going on when examined... Wouldn't it be simply so when not examined?
"The better worse only appears on a labeling level and stops there. There are only perceptions and appearances of objects, but nothing good or bad. Sounds appear, looking appears, hands appear, thoughts appear labeling that, but none of that is good or bad. It only appears to be such if there is a belief in labels, which also appears in the flow of life."
Yes. And the appearance of objects is thought labeling perception? Spontaneously occurring.
And if there is no isolating separate events, how could there be cause and effect?
"i guess even if there was cause and effect, it would not matter so much, because we have seen that we cannot influence the cause. But, yes, cause and effect only exists on a label level, but not in actuality. When we see that the labels are just labels, they are not taking for reality, and then things such as cause and effect have no relevance.
Yet... Not just relevance.., if there is no sticking a 'knife blade' in the flow of thought/perception. There are actually no separate events?
And is there a separate you who could step outside of this flow and isolate an event or a separate 'thing'?
Love,
Nettie
-
Actuallyone
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:29 am
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Nettie,
“The thought tries?”
Good point. The thoughts are not trying, they just appear and disappear, not driven by any outside entity. And their role is to seemingly separate this from that, the focus being on seemingly.
"Many times, it is only seen AFTER some actions that the story of the you is made up or only appears to be true, but not DURING it happens, at least more times after than during. But the more I look, the more there is an observation DURING the action. "
“Look! It only takes a second to look!”
When I look, there is no separate entity, only the awareness, the noticing and “objects” appearing such as sounds, fingers, action, thoughts, etc. That separate you only seem to exist in thoughts. But who believes those thoughts? The thoughts themselves?
“Look! Is there a separate self? Does it have shape or color or qualities or characteristics that are unchanging? Can you bring it to me and put it on a shelf?” There is no separate self. I was just looking at the computer, and then closed my eyes. When the eyes are open, there is a computer, when I close them, I can only imagine it, but it then only exists in thoughts. If I do the same with the self, I see that the self not only exists now, but it has never existed. It does not have any color, shape or anything real. Wow. That’s shocking in a way. And relieving at the same time. And crazy! And it makes life look like a “game” without any “players”, without anybody there to play it.
“Can word thought ever capture the flow?”
Word thought are part of the flow, so that fraction cannot capture the whole. One is real and word thought is a label.
“If it appears to be life simply going on when examined... Wouldn't it be simply so when not examined?”
The question I have is what is going on when “not examined”, when not looked. The noticing is still going on very naturally without any effort. But there seems to be something, a thought, a belief that projects an “I” into “the past” in a way. Yeah, those are just more thoughts, not more.
“Yes. And the appearance of objects is thought labeling perception? Spontaneously occurring.”
There are objects (hand, table, etc.) appearing and at the same time there is a though labeling appearing.
And if there is no isolating separate events, how could there be cause and effect?
"I guess even if there was cause and effect, it would not matter so much, because we have seen that we cannot influence the cause. But, yes, cause and effect only exists on a label level, but not in actuality. When we see that the labels are just labels, they are not taking for reality, and then things such as cause and effect have no relevance.
“Yet... Not just relevance.., if there is no sticking a 'knife blade' in the flow of thought/perception. There are actually no separate events?
And is there a separate you who could step outside of this flow and isolate an event or a separate 'thing'?”
There is only this happening what is happening right now. Nothing else. There are thoughts as well, but they all happen here and not separate from the flow. If there were thoughts or anything separate from the flow, it would not be noticed. Not only that, but it would not exist. There is no self, no you, no separate entity. There is only the flow and everything is part of it. It is just going on whether with or without a seemingly separate self-appearing in thoughts or not.
Much Love,
Ben
“The thought tries?”
Good point. The thoughts are not trying, they just appear and disappear, not driven by any outside entity. And their role is to seemingly separate this from that, the focus being on seemingly.
"Many times, it is only seen AFTER some actions that the story of the you is made up or only appears to be true, but not DURING it happens, at least more times after than during. But the more I look, the more there is an observation DURING the action. "
“Look! It only takes a second to look!”
When I look, there is no separate entity, only the awareness, the noticing and “objects” appearing such as sounds, fingers, action, thoughts, etc. That separate you only seem to exist in thoughts. But who believes those thoughts? The thoughts themselves?
“Look! Is there a separate self? Does it have shape or color or qualities or characteristics that are unchanging? Can you bring it to me and put it on a shelf?” There is no separate self. I was just looking at the computer, and then closed my eyes. When the eyes are open, there is a computer, when I close them, I can only imagine it, but it then only exists in thoughts. If I do the same with the self, I see that the self not only exists now, but it has never existed. It does not have any color, shape or anything real. Wow. That’s shocking in a way. And relieving at the same time. And crazy! And it makes life look like a “game” without any “players”, without anybody there to play it.
“Can word thought ever capture the flow?”
Word thought are part of the flow, so that fraction cannot capture the whole. One is real and word thought is a label.
“If it appears to be life simply going on when examined... Wouldn't it be simply so when not examined?”
The question I have is what is going on when “not examined”, when not looked. The noticing is still going on very naturally without any effort. But there seems to be something, a thought, a belief that projects an “I” into “the past” in a way. Yeah, those are just more thoughts, not more.
“Yes. And the appearance of objects is thought labeling perception? Spontaneously occurring.”
There are objects (hand, table, etc.) appearing and at the same time there is a though labeling appearing.
And if there is no isolating separate events, how could there be cause and effect?
"I guess even if there was cause and effect, it would not matter so much, because we have seen that we cannot influence the cause. But, yes, cause and effect only exists on a label level, but not in actuality. When we see that the labels are just labels, they are not taking for reality, and then things such as cause and effect have no relevance.
“Yet... Not just relevance.., if there is no sticking a 'knife blade' in the flow of thought/perception. There are actually no separate events?
And is there a separate you who could step outside of this flow and isolate an event or a separate 'thing'?”
There is only this happening what is happening right now. Nothing else. There are thoughts as well, but they all happen here and not separate from the flow. If there were thoughts or anything separate from the flow, it would not be noticed. Not only that, but it would not exist. There is no self, no you, no separate entity. There is only the flow and everything is part of it. It is just going on whether with or without a seemingly separate self-appearing in thoughts or not.
Much Love,
Ben
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