The Gate

Beunas Noches, Karen!

Thankyou for your reply.

Please take your time, and answer every question I ask.
Each one points to something. Read the words carefully, then LOOK and SEE for yourself.

goneforgood wrote:So, in YOUR DIRECT EXPERIENCE, does brain exist?

From Direct Experience alone, the honest answer would have to be no. It could not be found. LOL~

Is your answer “No, the brain does not exist” or “No the brain could not be found?” Look in your Direct Experience. Does brain exist?

While sitting & being quiet looking for bodily sensations of the brain, yes, thoughts were observed & body was doing what it does.

Excellent.

In direct experience, The nerves, liver, kidney, bladder, pancreas, etc cannot be "felt"

Good. Direct experience is what is real.

In your direct experience, without labels, do nerves, liver, kidney, bladder, pancreas etc. exist? Yes or No?

UNLESS they are poked or prodded as was my liver on Monday.

This is thought babble. Future/past. Leave it out. Stay with DIRECT EXPERIENCE.

In direct experience the systems of the body, organs, nerves, synapses etc.. function silently in the background,

You just said, above, that they cannot be felt in direct experience.
Direct experience does not label. Direct experience experiences.

How do you know “organs” and “synapses” are there?
How do you experience this “functioning silently in the background”?
Is it a felt experience, or is this more thought, making stuff up?
Which is more real: Your experience, or a thought?

again, UNLESS there is lots of movement or distress in which case physical feelings & sensations may manifest via pressure, pain. Bladder makes it known when it is full. A pinched nerve will make itself known.

This is more thought babble, making stuff up, rambling. STOP IT!

You did not answer this question from my last post:
What other sensations do you experience? Can you experience them without labelling and thought?

Please answer from your Direct Experience – from LOOKING INSIDE YOUR BODY.

Hope this isn't a babble but it it interesting how some but not all of the body /systems parts can be felt, at least by "me".

Which "parts" are you referring to exactly? Before there is thought about them, how are they experienced?

If you had never heard of the word “heart”, how would you experience its existence?

Thankyou Karen. Stay in your DIRECT, here, now, experience. THAT is what's real.

With Love, Robin

Robin,

Kallie wrote: goneforgood wrote:So, in YOUR DIRECT EXPERIENCE, does brain exist?

From Direct Experience alone, the honest answer would have to be no. It could not be found. LOL~

Is your answer “No, the brain does not exist” or “No the brain could not be found?” Look in your Direct Experience. Does brain exist?

In DE the brain could not be FELT nor FOUND via sensation. Answered it the first time just as the question was posed.

In your direct experience, without labels, do nerves, liver, kidney, bladder, pancreas etc. exist? Yes or No?

In DE they could not be FELT nor FOUND via sensation

How do you know “organs” and “synapses” are there?
How do you experience this “functioning silently in the background”?
Is it a felt experience, or is this more thought, making stuff up?
Which is more real: Your experience, or a thought?

In DE some organs cannot be "felt" by "me". The experience of functioning silently in the background is not making stuff up, it is obvious & shown in DE by a body that is functioning. Experience is more real.

You did not answer this question from my last post:
What other sensations do you experience? Can you experience them without labelling and thought?

Please answer from your Direct Experience – from LOOKING INSIDE YOUR BODY.

Not sure what you are requesting here. Thought (mistake #1) that we had covered the body & then moved on to the brain & other organs. Please clarify.

Kallie wrote:Hope this isn't a babble but it it interesting how some but not all of the body /systems parts can be felt, at least by "me".
Which "parts" are you referring to exactly? Before there is thought about them, how are they experienced?

The parts that being experienced now, bladder is full, need to pee, stomach is growling.

If you had never heard of the word “heart”, how would you experience its existence?

Might not be aware of it. Might hear or feel the beating of it if placement of hand or head in proper position happened, but this is just an idea, a thought about how a heart (if unknown) might be experienced. The answer is I don't know.

I KNOW that RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW is all that exists. It has been "my" mantra. I know BS past/future, but in reality, in DE right now that mantra is what keeps "me" in the present. I will try to answer your questions as directly and with as minimal words as possible, but sometimes it seems as though damned if ya do & damned if ya don't kind of situation. All I can offer is best effort.

x0x
Karen

Hi Karen,

Thankyou for your reply.
Monday is my busiest day, and I'm away from my computer until later this evening (it's now almost 2.00pm).
Will answer your post overnight.

Take care,
With Love, Robin

Hello again, Karen.
Thankyou for your patience.

I will try to answer your questions as directly and with as minimal words as possible, but sometimes it seems as though damned if ya do & damned if ya don't kind of situation. All I can offer is best effort.

I appreciate that you are doing your best.

If I have given the impression I want minimal words, then I apologise. Minimal thinking, yes – apart from the necessary thought it takes to write on what you find. This does not mean that thoughts will vanish. As you have already seen, you don’t choose your thoughts, nor do you have control over them. Thoughts just happen. But thought will not show you what you are here to see, at Liberation Unleashed. That is why I am quick to point out their irrelevance.

You may write as many words as you need to answer the questions. The more fully you do this, the more clearly I can see what you are seeing, and point where to look next. And please, feel free to use your own words. Don’t feel you must limit yourself to only the ones I use in the question. My words only point, as an arrow saying “go in this direction”.

Sometimes when I ask a question more than once, or one that is very similar, it is either because I am looking for clarity, to be quite sure I am understanding you correctly, or it may be that I am asking you to look again, because there is more to see.

In DE the brain could not be FELT nor FOUND via sensation. Answered it the first time just as the question was posed.

But can you see that my question is slightly different this time? When you look in DE, there is no such thing as brain, would you agree? So then we could say that in DE brain does not exist. It only exists as a concept in thought. Can you see this?

In your direct experience, without labels, do nerves, liver, kidney, bladder, pancreas etc. exist? Yes or No?

In DE they could not be FELT nor FOUND via sensation

Again, (same as above) I am askng you if they exist in DE. If you can’t find it in DE, it doesn’t exist for you in DE. It only exists as thought or concept. Is that clear? If not, please say so.

In DE some organs cannot be "felt" by "me".

Are there other organs that you can feel? If so, what do they feel like?

The experience of functioning silently in the background is not making stuff up, it is obvious & shown in DE by a body that is functioning. Experience is more real.

Yes, I see what you mean. The body is functioning, somehow. Experience tells you this.

What other sensations do you experience? Can you experience them without labelling and thought?

Please answer from your Direct Experience – from LOOKING INSIDE YOUR BODY.



Not sure what you are requesting here. Thought (mistake #1) that we had covered the body & then moved on to the brain & other organs. Please clarify.

I am asking you to continue experiencing your body directly, the way you did when you went looking for the brain. When you take the time to sit and notice what is happening, by feeling it intimately, looking at it closely, in detail, you discover what is really true for you, as opposed to information you have read, or images you have seen. So what you are doing is seeing more and more clearly the difference between DE and thoughts or concepts. I hope that helps clarify it for you.

It is through this clear distinction between DE (the 5 physical senses) and thought content that you will come to see the absence of self.

I hope this post has helped your understanding.

With Love,
Robin

Robin,

Thank you for taking the time to soothe me. I get what you are trying to help me with & I suppose I got frustrated & something took it personally, because you were yelling at STOP IT! In DE yesterday tension arose, anger, frustration came up & yes it can clearly be seen that nothing here is in control of thoughts, as yesterday they were hard to shake & today there was DE of some feelings of sadness. It is seen how emotions and feelings are just thoughts wrapped around ideas of what ifs etc., but still they come. This understanding has been gradually unfolding over the past year, many illusions & ideas have been seen thru, many more to go? This is just the next & hopefully last step on that journey. Many years of conditioning to be undone. Thank you for your patience.

If I had to go by DE alone,then brain, kidney, liver, pancreas etc, NO do not exist, except as a thought or concept. Yes, that can be seen that for sure in DE.

Kallie wrote:In DE some organs cannot be "felt" by "me".

Are there other organs that you can feel? If so, what do they feel like?

I see what you are saying. No cannot "feel" any organs. There are bodily sensations that thoughts and concepts of the assumed location ie: stomach, bladder can be felt, when in DE there is just a sense of fullness or emptiness & if it wasn't known where or what a stomach or bladder was, only know those sensations would be noticed.

Yes, I see what you mean. The body is functioning, somehow. Experience tells you this.

Yes, experience seems to point to the reality of the body, but is it, real? Sensations within at times. Visible and easy to touch. DE exercises? Please?

Please answer from your Direct Experience – from LOOKING INSIDE YOUR BODY.

[/quote]

DE at the moment is showing me nothing inside the body, no sensations happening, quiet, just breathing.

Ahhh Robin, thanks again for your patience. For what it's worth, I do enjoy the exercises & will continue to practice DE & become more accustomed to TRUSTING it. Also for what it's worth, so tired of thinking.

Love,
'Karen

Robin,
Since we are doing such profound work together, there is a desire to share something with you so that you know where " I AM". My doc called this morning & confirmed that the cancer has returned & is in liver. Can't feel or find liver by sensation. Can't feel or find cancer by sensation. By DE neither exists. I know that this message is not DE, just part of the "Karen" saga, but perhaps it is relevant in unraveling old ideas & beliefs. Thru out the cancer journey, whoever this is, whatever this is, has been blessed by for the most part, by the absence of fear, live or die, it is just a journey, nothing ever really dies. When I came here to LU, complete surrender & acceptance of whatever is, was in effect & was & is the goal. Life is in charge of life. Sometimes the path needs to be cleared.

In DE right now, No grumbling, urges or sensations. Just breath. Pulsing in right ear.

Thanks again Robin,
Much Love,
Karen

Thankyou for letting me know, Karen.

I will send you a full post later today.

With Love and Appreciation,
Robin

Hello Dear Karen,

I’m so glad you are feeling better today.

In DE yesterday tension arose, anger, frustration came up & yes it can clearly be seen that nothing here is in control of thoughts, as yesterday they were hard to shake & today there was DE of some feelings of sadness. It is seen how emotions and feelings are just thoughts wrapped around ideas of what ifs etc., but still they come.

Yes, thoughts and feelings will continue, with or without your consent.

Which comes first? Thought or emotion?
Does emotion happen, felt by sensation in the body, and then thought makes up a story about it?
OR Does thought come first, and the emotion follow?

When something appears, whatever it is, tension, desire, sound, anything – focus on it with laser sharpness. Observe it before any thoughts about it appear. Is there an “I” before the thoughts appear, or does it come with the thoughts?

This understanding has been gradually unfolding over the past year, many illusions & ideas have been seen thru, many more to go? This is just the next & hopefully last step on that journey. Many years of conditioning to be undone. Thank you for your patience.

It is my pleasure to be here walking with you, dear Karen.

If I had to go by DE alone,then brain, kidney, liver, pancreas etc, NO do not exist, except as a thought or concept. Yes, that can be seen that for sure in DE.

This is excellent noticing. Well done!

No cannot "feel" any organs. There are bodily sensations that thoughts and concepts of the assumed location ie: stomach, bladder can be felt, when in DE there is just a sense of fullness or emptiness & if it wasn't known where or what a stomach or bladder was, only know those sensations would be noticed.

Good noticing! You are making great progress here.

Yes, experience seems to point to the reality of the body, but is it, real? Sensations within at times. Visible and easy to touch.

In DE, you can see, touch, feel, smell and taste a body. The body exists.

Is there an inside and outside? Stop everything for two minutes and listen intently to all sounds that are present. Is there a hearer of sound, separate from the hearing and the heard? Where does hearing happen? Listen to distant sounds. Where is the hearer then? With eyes closed, check if there is a line between here and there. Can it be defined?

Notice too, the habitual thought “I hear that.” Now just pay attention to how sound happens. Take your time with it. Are you doing the hearing or is hearing just happening?

When you observe a flower, is there any separation between you and the flower?

For what it's worth, I do enjoy the exercises & will continue to practice DE & become more accustomed to TRUSTING it.

Of course! I’m glad you are enjoying looking.

Also for what it's worth, so tired of thinking.

Here are two of the expectations you wrote at the beginning of our time together:
"How will it feel? Relief since I will have ceased thinking about it.
What do I expect liberation will do for me? Free me from my mind."

Is it “you” thinking, or is thinking just happening? Is there a “you” in control of thoughts? Are they “your” thoughts, or just thoughts?

Take your time with this today. There is much to investigate and enjoy.

With Love, Robin

Beautiful Karen,

My doc called this morning & confirmed that the cancer has returned & is in liver. Can't feel or find liver by sensation. Can't feel or find cancer by sensation. By DE neither exists. I know that this message is not DE, just part of the "Karen" saga, but perhaps it is relevant in unraveling old ideas & beliefs. Thru out the cancer journey, whoever this is, whatever this is, has been blessed by for the most part, by the absence of fear, live or die, it is just a journey, nothing ever really dies. When I came here to LU, complete surrender & acceptance of whatever is, was in effect & was & is the goal. Life is in charge of life.

Life is indeed in charge of life, and your growing practice and awareness in direct experience is no accident.

There is no me, there is no you. Just life, showing up, as this.

Greatest Love and Thanks,
Robin

Hi Robin,

I hope all is well with you today. All is well here. Right here, right now. OK we've got DE and BA (Babble Alert)
Can't help it Robin, it just happens, but at least there is more awareness about it now & a heads up to you!

Is there an inside and outside? Stop everything for two minutes and listen intently to all sounds that are present. Is there a hearer of sound, separate from the hearing and the heard? Where does hearing happen? Listen to distant sounds. Where is the hearer then? With eyes closed, check if there is a line between here and there. Can it be defined?

Notice too, the habitual thought “I hear that.” Now just pay attention to how sound happens. Take your time with it. Are you doing the hearing or is hearing just happening?

When you observe a flower, is there any separation between you and the flower?

DE: Inside & outside. No it is one continuity, seemingly separated by a box shaped thing we call a house. The same air, life force circulates.

BA: : ) I've often wondered why we are the only species that requires these boxes, sure we have no fur, but..just sayin' . Not that I don't appreciate the box.

DE: Tic toc tic toc. Bacon sizzling in the pan. No there is no separate thing hearing. Sound is being experienced. Sound, hearer & hearing meld into one spontaneous experience. Same room, distant room, volume differs. No distinct line between any of it.

B/A: Music has always been a powerful experience, sometimes incurring weeping in public places or channeling some world famous dancer. LOL. Will examine this further with curiosity & attention when the time presents itself again to SEE what is happening for sure in DE.

DE: Observing houseplant. Touching with eyes closed. Feeling texture & coolness. Open eyes. See variation in colors between hand & plant. There is no separation. Life flows thru all of this.

Here are two of the expectations you wrote at the beginning of our time together:
"How will it feel? Relief since I will have ceased thinking about it.
What do I expect liberation will do for me? Free me from my mind."

Is it “you” thinking, or is thinking just happening? Is there a “you” in control of thoughts? Are they “your” thoughts, or just thoughts?

DE: Thinking just happens & no there is no me in control of thoughts & it is seen that there is no ownership, they just happen, often times so randomly.

B/A: There are times when they seem to be practical & ordered in taking care of daily business, but even they cannot be claimed by this/me. They are on auto pilot, just knowing what to do & how to get things done. There is no control & apparently no freakin' off switch! At times thoughts & ideas are fun interjecting their bit of humor on life, at other times pure misery. Guess the gift & trick is to let them all just flow without attachment. Easier said then done sometimes. Fortunate or unfortunate? Matters not. Accept it.

Which comes first? Thought or emotion?
Does emotion happen, felt by sensation in the body, and then thought makes up a story about it?
OR Does thought come first, and the emotion follow?

When something appears, whatever it is, tension, desire, sound, anything – focus on it with laser sharpness. Observe it before any thoughts about it appear. Is there an “I” before the thoughts appear, or does it come with the thoughts?

I was going to wait to do this one, but something is happening now as I prepare to sign off.
DE: I thought of the word gratitude (towards you at the moment) & emotions are arising and eyes are getting teary. Apparently the word/thought produced a feeling that produced a sensation, crying, not an unusual response. Will pay attention to this area as we move forward.

BA: It seems that everything from fear, anger, resentment to the flip side of love & gratitude are conceptual ideas entangled in mind. That's a big one. Easy to see the former, much harder to accept the latter.

Thank you for everything Robin~Life is just life as you say, just showing up as this & there are no accidents or coincidences. All is as it is meant to be. SURRENDER. Lol!

Lots of Love, Laughs & Hugs,
Karen

Good Morning, Karen.

Thankyou for the hugs, love and laughs, which I share joyfully with you.

I hope all is well with you today. All is well here. Right here, right now. OK we've got DE and BA (Babble Alert) Can't help it Robin, it just happens, but at least there is more awareness about it now & a heads up to you!

I love it that you can now distinguish between DE and thought babble, and that you give me the heads up!

DE: Inside & outside. No it is one continuity, seemingly separated by a box shaped thing we call a house. The same air, life force circulates.

Haha! I should have been more specific. Let’s come in close and personal….right into the body.

In DE, is there an inside and outside of the body?

Look at the houseplant again, without touching it.

Become aware of where the body is in relation to the plant, and how thought automatically labels body and plant as separate items.

Now, find SEEING. Where is the SEE-er? Do not give me a summary answer from the mind. To simply say “there is no separation” is the mind taking precedence again, running the show.

Get inside yourself – REALLY go inside to that unknown space where nothing seems clear or defined. Get behind the eyes. Can you find a SEE-er there? LOOK with your inner senses, your inner searchlight. Where does the SEE-er end and the SEEn begin? Can you find the edges, a boundary?

Leave words behind, and FEEL your way, Karen. Do not come up with explanations. Be willing to get lost in the unexplored “inner landscape”. Find what is REAL.

DE: Tic toc tic toc. Bacon sizzling in the pan. No there is no separate thing hearing. Sound is being experienced.

Sound is being experienced by whom? Where is the Hearer? Where does sound end and hearer begin? Who or what is doing the hearing? Feel it. Sense it. Find it in your direct experience.

Sound, hearer & hearing meld into one spontaneous experience.

If, as you say above, there is no separate thing hearing, what is doing this melding, or being melded, that you refer to?

Life flows thru all of this.

Life flows through what? Is there life and then something separate from life, that life flows through? “Life force” (a term you used earlier in this post) is a LABEL. Can you find anywhere where life is not? Search, Karen.

DE: Thinking just happens & no there is no me in control of thoughts & it is seen that there is no ownership, they just happen, often times so randomly.

Seeing this, has your expectation about “ceasing thinking” changed in any way? Can you get rid of thinking? What about being free from your mind?

B/A: There are times when they seem to be practical & ordered in taking care of daily business, but even they cannot be claimed by this/me. They are on auto pilot, just knowing what to do & how to get things done.

Good to notice!

Guess the gift & trick is to let them all just flow without attachment. Easier said then done sometimes. Fortunate or unfortunate? Matters not. Accept it.

When attachment to thought happens, who or what is attaching? Or, put another way, what is there that thought attaches to?

DE: I thought of the word gratitude (towards you at the moment) & emotions are arising and eyes are getting teary. Apparently the word/thought produced a feeling that produced a sensation, crying, not an unusual response. Will pay attention to this area as we move forward.

Yes, keep noticing. Feelings, then thoughts about feelings? Or thoughts, then feelings about thoughts?

BA: It seems that everything from fear, anger, resentment to the flip side of love & gratitude are conceptual ideas entangled in mind.

Very good. They are labels we give to experiences and sensations. Useful labels, sometimes, but nevertheless, just labels.

What makes one emotion sensation different from another? Without thought labelling, how do you distinguish between fear/anger/resentment/love/gratitude? Can you describe the feeling itself, as it is experienced in the body?

HEADS UP:
It is my observation that you are in a hurry to get somewhere. There is nowhere to get. THIS is it. THIS is all there is. Use this to see this. Liberation is right here when you stop to look and see.
With the most loving intention, if I see that you continue to hurry through every exercise, I may shout again.

In Love and Enjoyment,
Robin

LoL Robin,

Perhaps it seems like I hurry & maybe I do, but this sliver of life is very quiet. No work. Cold & snowy outside. Finished my cheezy novel. : )

I will however in light of the possibility of you yelling again, try to slow down & ponder these overnight into tomorrow~

Whatever homework I get tomorrow will likely not be answered till Friday as back to Doc on Thurs, which is an all day affair.

Lots of Love,
Karen

It is your thinking that hurries. Your mind runs. It wants to be out in front. That is the nature of mind. Look and see.

By the sound of it, time is in your favour. Take a holiday from your mind, and dive into DE!

Identifying the distinction between thought and DE is ongoing. Seeing becomes clearer. Seeing sees more. Seeing grows and continues on. Liberation is seeing because you look. Looking sees. Seeing liberates.

I like your plan, and it will suit me well, as tomorrow (Thursday) my computerr will be out of action during daytime hours.

I look forward to your next post.
With Love,
Robin

Hi Robin!

This is only a partial response. I must take my time with the first half of your interrogation, lol! I fell asleep last night staring at an apple & spent the morning drinking tea staring at the plant. I need more time with the seeing & hearing exercises & will report back as soon as I feel that I may have something. Feel free to offer additional points : ) In the meantime, I have assumed the fetal position and have my helmet on should you decide to unleash the fury. Hugs? x0x

Life flows through what? Is there life and then something separate from life, that life flows through? “Life force” (a term you used earlier in this post) is a LABEL. Can you find anywhere where life is not? Search, Karen.

Poor choice of words. Absolutely not, there is no place anywhere where life is not.

Seeing this, has your expectation about “ceasing thinking” changed in any way? Can you get rid of thinking? What about being free from your mind?

Yes, I see that thoughts will come & go whether invited or not, there is no stopping them. In this knowing now, there is some freedom from feeling like "I" have to try to do anything, just let it be.

When attachment to thought happens, who or what is attaching? Or, put another way, what is there that thought attaches to?

Thoughts are like ether, air, non tangible, what could nothing attach to? Another label, another thought. Building the story higher & higher.

Yes, keep noticing. Feelings, then thoughts about feelings? Or thoughts, then feelings about thoughts?

Yesterday it was thinking about how grateful I am to you & then sensations/feelings in the body occurred, tears. I'll keep an eye on this type of situation & well, every other one too!

What makes one emotion sensation different from another? Without thought labelling, how do you distinguish between fear/anger/resentment/love/gratitude? Can you describe the feeling itself, as it is experienced in the body?

Both feel like pent up energy in the body, the release is different. Anger side of spectrum body experiences tension, knot in stomach, more rapid breathing, need to engage in physical activity, maybe (whoops) yelling. Love & gratitude side, body experiences calm, quietness & often tears.

B/A: I will pay attention to the above stuff. How thoughts, feelings, emotions seem to have real effect on body. Or is this too just a belief? Fortunately not much of the anger side happening anymore, saw that vicious cycle & got off that merry go round.

Alright Robin. I'll give you something when I've got it.
Lots of Love, Laughs & Hugs. Gotta laugh about it, no?

x0x
Karen

Hello Robin,

I hope that all is well. I'm going to step out on a limb and risk a whooping, cause I cannot let fear of pixels on a screen yelling at me keep this slice of life from moving forward! LOL~ It has been noticed that pointing comes with yellin'..

In DE, is there an inside and outside of the body?

DE: As I close my eyes & the body is quiet there is nothing to indicate any difference.
DE: Sitting here trying to feel where my face ends, without touching, the ending cannot be felt.
There is no boundary.
B/A: Life/God could not be fenced in by this body or by a tree, etc

Look at the houseplant again, without touching it.

Become aware of where the body is in relation to the plant, and how thought automatically labels body and plant as separate items.

Now, find SEEING. Where is the SEE-er? Do not give me a summary answer from the mind. To simply say “there is no separation” is the mind taking precedence again, running the show.

Get inside yourself – REALLY go inside to that unknown space where nothing seems clear or defined. Get behind the eyes. Can you find a SEE-er there? LOOK with your inner senses, your inner searchlight. Where does the SEE-er end and the SEEn begin? Can you find the edges, a boundary?

Yes, I noticed this upon first look. If it weren’t called a plant, why not call it a foot?
DE: Now. There is the body. There is seeing of a plant. There is seeing of space in between body and plant.

B/A: It is seen that space is just a label, in this instance it would be referred to life/God, as there is nowhere where God is not & it seems to be the seeming empty space that creates the illusion of separateness. Robin, when I look, when seeing happens from this slice of life, the matrix is not seen, pixels are not seen. Images & forms are seen. Karen ducks for cover

DE: Seer cannot be found, seeing is automatic as is the seen. I look now at the books on the bookcase, close my eyes, open them, it’s instant. Taken for granted & instant.

I know I have more exercises to complete, on hearing, but like you said, no hurry.

I look forward to your reply! Hope you had a most awesome day!
Love,
Karen

P.S. B/A: I think (LOL) this was already mentioned, but really been examining thoughts & how they are not tangible, they are fleeting, they cannot be touched, seen, felt, smelled or heard but sometimes they seem so powerful, but that is BS. DE: Thought stacked upon thought creates story, end of story. Bye for now. This ain't over~