Guidance needed

[Colinm]

Hi Sarah,

Why not? Are you assuming they have all experienced it whatever ‘it’ is? This is about your experience not a story coming from someone else (do not read harshness here!).

When you take out all of our assumptions, there’s not much left!

I want you to look at that doubt. Stare at it as Ive said before as if down a microscope. See what it is – just thought. See the stories that make it – lots of thoughts. What or who is doubting?

Who is doubting? Just a bunch of thoughts that I identify with, labelled me and my thoughts, attitudes, opinions, feelings, etc. It’s understandable that the thought of I can’t comprehend its own illusory nature. Well, thoughts can’t understand anything really.

Other than what you have said here - can you tell me what else you expect, believe will happen or just plain want?

What I want is peace, happiness, bliss (not sure what that is but it sounds good). But somewhere along the line my expectations were refined to ‘nothing special’. I still have a belief that this is really hard and elusive.

Its not a case of right or wrong – but of what thoughts and expectations it creates. Pull them out! Spread them on the table in front of you and look.

With so many words written about this process there is the tendency to try and work it out intellectually. There is an attraction towards reading, perhaps it’s a desire to escape the present moment.

What don’t you ‘know’? Sit with that – don’t think it out. Just sit and look. What else is there but this?

So many layers of thoughts, assumptions, beliefs, labelling that create my sense of reality. They are overlayed on ‘just this’, a sense of awareness. What don’t I know? Thought based knowing is moving away from what is real. Anything but ‘just this’ can only be a thought.

Love Colin

[Sarah7]

Hi Colin

When you take out all of our assumptions, there’s not much left!

Is that a problem? How does this sentence feel?

Well, thoughts can’t understand anything really.

Look at whether they can or cant. Check.

What I want is peace, happiness, bliss (not sure what that is but it sounds good). But somewhere along the line my expectations were refined to ‘nothing special’. I still have a belief that this is really hard and elusive.

Are all these thoughts? Repeated refined thoughts? What would be bothered if things were not happy all the time? What is doing the comparing here, and to what? What is affected by not being happy all the time?

Are you thoughts? Or are thoughts just experienced? Sit with this. Are ‘you’ thoughts? Are thoughts just appearing in consciousness along with everything else being labelled? Is there anything in consciousness that appears in consciousness that is permanent?

With so many words written about this process there is the tendency to try and work it out intellectually. There is an attraction towards reading, perhaps it’s a desire to escape the present moment.

Yes – thoughts do what thoughts do. Thoughts want. Is it possible to escape the present? What else is there but NOW?

So many layers of thoughts, assumptions, beliefs, labelling that create my sense of reality. They are overlayed on ‘just this’, a sense of awareness. What don’t I know? Thought based knowing is moving away from what is real. Anything but ‘just this’ can only be a thought.

Is this seen? Have "you" been revealed as a thought story? If so what remains?
Much love Sarah xx

[Colinm]

Hi Sarah,

Colinm wrote:When you take out all of our assumptions, there’s not much left!
Is that a problem? How does this sentence feel?

Not a problem. Life would be less stressful, more peaceful.

Colinm wrote:Well, thoughts can’t understand anything really.
Look at whether they can or cant. Check.

How can they? They are just thoughts that come and go in awareness. Understanding would be just another thought in the procession.

Are all these thoughts? Repeated refined thoughts?

Yep, just more thoughts.

What would be bothered if things were not happy all the time? What is doing the comparing here, and to what? What is affected by not being happy all the time?

When things are not happy, ‘unpleasant’ thoughts and sensations arise. Or rather, thoughts label them as ‘unpleasant’. That creates the desire to get rid of them. A thought arises – ‘I don’t like that’. Preferences are frequently arising as thoughts in the mind. Thought/memory is comparing to stored memories of happy feelings. What is being affected? Happiness and unhappiness appear to be time based concepts, not relevant to the reality of NOW. They are both just changing thoughts and sensations in awareness.

Are you thoughts? Or are thoughts just experienced? Sit with this. Are ‘you’ thoughts? Are thoughts just appearing in consciousness along with everything else being labelled? Is there anything in consciousness that appears in consciousness that is permanent?

Thoughts are just appearing in consciousness. Am I thoughts? It sure feels that way. But thoughts don’t have any real substance. I can’t think of anything permanent that appears in consciousness.

Yes – thoughts do what thoughts do. Thoughts want. Is it possible to escape the present? What else is there but NOW?

No, I can’t really escape the present. Perhaps there is a desire to escape the thoughts and sensations that are presently arising, to exchange them for different thoughts and sensations.

Is this seen? Have "you" been revealed as a thought story? If so what remains?

It is vaguely seen, not clearly enough to have any impact. The thought story of me hasn’t had its momentum diminished. (Uh oh, that’s also a bunch of thoughts!).

Love Colin

[Sarah7]

Hi Colin

Not a problem. Life would be less stressful, more peaceful.

And what makes it less peaceful and more stressful? Is this really the case – more stress less peace? Or is that a lovely habitual comparison story building thought too? (Insert smile here…..!)

When things are not happy, ‘unpleasant’ thoughts and sensations arise. Or rather, thoughts label them as ‘unpleasant’. That creates the desire to get rid of them. A thought arises – ‘I don’t like that’. Preferences are frequently arising as thoughts in the mind. Thought/memory is comparing to stored memories of happy feelings. What is being affected? Happiness and unhappiness appear to be time based concepts, not relevant to the reality of NOW. They are both just changing thoughts and sensations in awareness.

Yes. Watch this happen.

Perhaps there is a desire to escape the thoughts and sensations that are presently arising, to exchange them for different thoughts and sensations.

Would that be another thought! (Another smile please!)

It is vaguely seen, not clearly enough to have any impact. The thought story of me hasn’t had its momentum diminished. (Uh oh, that’s also a bunch of thoughts!).

Expectations!!!!! ‘Impact’ – story expectation. ‘Momentum being diminished’ – story expectation. Sit with this for a bit…… Have "you" been revealed as a thought story? If so what remains? See it all happening.
Much love Sarah xx

[Colinm]

Hi Sarah,

And what makes it less peaceful and more stressful? Is this really the case – more stress less peace? Or is that a lovely habitual comparison story building thought too? (Insert smile here…..!)

Yes, that would have to be one of those too!

Would that be another thought! (Another smile please!)

No doubt a desire is just another thought.

Expectations!!!!! ‘Impact’ – story expectation. ‘Momentum being diminished’ – story expectation. Sit with this for a bit…… Have "you" been revealed as a thought story? If so what remains? See it all happening.

Expectations crawling out of the woodwork.
Have ‘I’ been revealed a thought story? Well what else can I be? My whole sense of a separate self is based on memory thoughts and assumptions, so there is no room for argument there (apart from more thoughts). If so what remains? I guess you mean what is left if one takes away the thought story of me. In direct experience there are thoughts, feelings, sensation. If I add anything to that it will probably be just a thought!

Love Colin

[Sarah7]

Hi Colin

Expectations crawling out of the woodwork.
Have ‘I’ been revealed a thought story? Well what else can I be? My whole sense of a separate self is based on memory thoughts and assumptions, so there is no room for argument there (apart from more thoughts). If so what remains? I guess you mean what is left if one takes away the thought story of me. In direct experience there are thoughts, feelings, sensation. If I add anything to that it will probably be just a thought!

Have good look into what remains. Is it nothing or everything? Are you limited in any way?

If any other expectations crop up – just see them and smile!

What experiences?

What thinks?

What does?

What is aware?
Much love Sarah xx

[Colinm]

Hi Sarah,

Have good look into what remains. Is it nothing or everything? Are you limited in any way?

If I close my eyes, I experience sensations, sounds, a dark screen, a stream of thoughts. There are thought stories of a separate me with boundaries. Beyond the thought stories, there are no boundaries perceivable. Is it nothing or everything? That’s a good question!

If any other expectations crop up – just see them and smile!

I think you have dashed all my expectations! When they pop up, there is a sign saying ‘wrong way, go back’…

What experiences?
What thinks?
What does?
What is aware?

Can I use your ‘nothing or everything’ to answer this one? The story of self appears to be created by the mind as a noun to go with these verbs, but direct experience would suggest that the verbs can fly solo.

Love Colin

[Sarah7]

Hi Colin

I think you have dashed all my expectations! When they pop up, there is a sign saying ‘wrong way, go back’…

Wrong way????? What makes it wrong? Is there such a thing? Please forgive if I misread what you meant here – I just want to be thorough and make sure everything has been looked at and into. OK.

Can I use your ‘nothing or everything’ to answer this one? The story of self appears to be created by the mind as a noun to go with these verbs, but direct experience would suggest that the verbs can fly solo.

Do you mean there is only experiencing etc…..?

Are you feel the illusion of self has been revealed? Are you clear? If not what is not clear? Is there anything else you need to know? Any confusion? Anything at all?

How is all this feeling Colin? How are you experiencing it all, how do you feel?
Much love Sarah xx

[Colinm]

Hi Sarah,

Wrong way????? What makes it wrong? Is there such a thing? Please forgive if I misread what you meant here – I just want to be thorough and make sure everything has been looked at and into. OK.

Expectations are thought stories, concepts. To interpret reality through thought stories is the "wrong way" to approach THIS. But I guess you are emphasising that it is all a part of what is, where right and wrong are just thought labels. So I stand corrected!

Do you mean there is only experiencing etc…..?

That appears to be the case in direct experience.

Are you feel the illusion of self has been revealed? Are you clear? If not what is not clear? Is there anything else you need to know? Any confusion? Anything at all?
How is all this feeling Colin? How are you experiencing it all, how do you feel?

No I don’t feel very clear on this, still lots of confusion. I don’t feel that there is anything I need to know, but I am still strongly identified with the thinking process. There appears to be the expectation of ‘more clarity’ and ‘certainty’, perhaps a concept of what this should look and feel like. The attention has a strong tendency to focus on the mind rather than direct experience. When this is noticed, the attention is redirected to body sensation. Does that have any value?

Love Colin

[Sarah7]

Hi Colin

So I stand corrected!

LOL. Don’t just believe me! Verify yourself!

there is only experiencing etc…..?

That appears to be the case in direct experience.

Is this experienced then?

No I don’t feel very clear on this, still lots of confusion. I don’t feel that there is anything I need to know, but I am still strongly identified with the thinking process.

Thank you for this. Any doubts or confusion needs looking at.
Does this mean you listen or believe what thoughts are saying or that you react to what thoughts say?
If you listen – does there come a point when you notice listening? If you react – again does there come a point when you notice reacting? So is the confusion caused by thoughts saying that this shouldn’t be happening? That there should be no listening and no reacting?

There appears to be the expectation of ‘more clarity’ and ‘certainty’, perhaps a concept of what this should look and feel like.

Perhaps or defiantly? Are you widely read? Who influenced you – what concepts particularly spoke to you? What do you think you are waiting for? Is it based on what has been read?

The attention has a strong tendency to focus on the mind rather than direct experience. When this is noticed, the attention is redirected to body sensation.

Are ‘you’ doing this or does it just happen? Is there a you in control of any of this?

Does that have any value?

To Whom?
Much Love Sarah xx

[Colinm]

Hi Sarah,

Is this experienced then?

I’m not sure if seeing something is the same as experiencing it.

Does this mean you listen or believe what thoughts are saying or that you react to what thoughts say?
If you listen – does there come a point when you notice listening? If you react – again does there come a point when you notice reacting? So is the confusion caused by thoughts saying that this shouldn’t be happening? That there should be no listening and no reacting?

Yes, listen, believe and react to thoughts.
Yes, there comes a point when I notice listening and reacting.
So how would I describe the confusion? There are often thoughts that say I shouldn’t be listening and reacting. There is also the habitual momentum of the ego wanting something other than THIS. Of course, these are all just thoughts arising in the present moment.

Perhaps or defiantly? Are you widely read? Who influenced you – what concepts particularly spoke to you? What do you think you are waiting for? Is it based on what has been read?

Widely read is true, but I think my expectations are more like that generic ‘peace and happiness’. The mind tends to be chasing after something better.

Are ‘you’ doing this or does it just happen? Is there a you in control of any of this?

I often assume there is a me doing it, but when I remember to look deeper, no me can be found. Attention is just something happening in the present moment. What else can there be but the present moment? Certainly there is no room for a separate self in this moment.

To Whom?

Nobody!

Love Colin

[Sarah7]

Hi Colin

I’m not sure if seeing something is the same as experiencing it.

What else is there? What is experienced may look different but is it? Isnt it all just experience? Check. Sit and just look.

Yes, listen, believe and react to thoughts. Yes, there comes a point when I notice listening and reacting. So how would I describe the confusion? There are often thoughts that say I shouldn’t be listening and reacting. There is also the habitual momentum of the ego wanting something other than THIS. Of course, these are all just thoughts arising in the present moment.

And what happens when you see this happening? Does noticing happen at the time of it occurring?
What happens to that present moment with thoughts – and what happens to that present moment without them? Is the present moment effected at all? Does the present moment become less perfect because you were engaging in thought? What apparently supplies meaning – but ultimately cannot describe anything.

Widely read is true, but I think my expectations are more like that generic ‘peace and happiness’. The mind tends to be chasing after something better.

Better than this again! How would that work – having things other than they are? How can they be - other than in thought?
The question is what exactly is responsible for things NOT being perfect. Those lovely little thoughts again? This doesnt mean they are the enemy - they just belong - along with everything else experienced- in what is. Now this you ‘know’ – so ‘be’ with what is – including those lovely little thoughts. Treat them like the clouds. You are simply watching weather pass by. Moods, emotions, feelings and thoughts – all weather.

I often assume there is a me doing it, but when I remember to look deeper, no me can be found. Attention is just something happening in the present moment. What else can there be but the present moment? Certainly there is no room for a separate self in this moment.

Yes. See the habit of ‘I’. Looking is the key. How can you be separate from what you have created?
Much love Sarah xx

[Colinm]

Hi Sarah,

What else is there? What is experienced may look different but is it? Isnt it all just experience? Check. Sit and just look.

Yes it is all just experience.

And what happens when you see this happening? Does noticing happen at the time of it occurring?

Noticing tends to happen just afterwards. Sensations may arise that the mind labels as negative or other times all these thoughts simply pass by.

What happens to that present moment with thoughts – and what happens to that present moment without them? Is the present moment effected at all? Does the present moment become less perfect because you were engaging in thought? What apparently supplies meaning – but ultimately cannot describe anything.

If I look at the present moment as this ‘space’ in which everything is happening, then it’s not really affected by the coming and going of thoughts. All the apparent problems are in the thoughts, when we assign too much value to them.

Better than this again! How would that work – having things other than they are? How can they be - other than in thought?

Yes, how ridiculous. Things simply are as they are. Thought appears to have its own reality, often quite oblivious to what is actually true.

The question is what exactly is responsible for things NOT being perfect. Those lovely little thoughts again? This doesnt mean they are the enemy - they just belong - along with everything else experienced- in what is. Now this you ‘know’ – so ‘be’ with what is – including those lovely little thoughts. Treat them like the clouds. You are simply watching weather pass by. Moods, emotions, feelings and thoughts – all weather.

Yes, those precious little thoughts are never satisfied. They don’t appear too lovable from the perspective of the separate self, but that is also just part of the stream of thoughts. Without believing the ‘my thoughts’ label, there is no reason to care what the thoughts are preaching.

Yes. See the habit of ‘I’. Looking is the key. How can you be separate from what you have created?

That’s where I tend to get lost – seeing the habit of ‘I’. Is it something that requires effort or just a relaxation into what is happening now?

Love Colin

[Sarah7]

Hi Colin

Noticing tends to happen just afterwards. Sensations may arise that the mind labels as negative or other times all these thoughts simply pass by.

And has this been experienced more often? Have things moved, shifted…..?

If I look at the present moment as this ‘space’ in which everything is happening, then it’s not really affected by the coming and going of thoughts. All the apparent problems are in the thoughts, when we assign too much value to them.

I don’t know how old you are Colin – but the expectation of a moment when everything just falls into place and from that time on all things make sense, there is no doubt and there is bliss all day long…., blah, blah, blah….. LOL. Have you ever experienced the breaking of a habit? Is it quick? It starts with the seeing…..

Yes, how ridiculous. Things simply are as they are. Thought appears to have its own reality, often quite oblivious to what is actually true.

And…….????????? What is your response to this????? Are you smiling, laughing????? What else is there!

Without believing the ‘my thoughts’ label, there is no reason to care what the thoughts are preaching.

YES. YES. YES!!!!! How does this sentence feel? Sit with it.

That’s where I tend to get lost – seeing the habit of ‘I’. Is it something that requires effort or just a relaxation into what is happening now?

Who is getting lost here? Who wants a solution to this? What wants something to do here?
Lots of love Sarah xx

[Colinm]

Hi Sarah,

And has this been experienced more often? Have things moved, shifted…..?

Yes, there is a little more awareness of thought stories and identification happening now.

I don’t know how old you are Colin – but the expectation of a moment when everything just falls into place and from that time on all things make sense, there is no doubt and there is bliss all day long…., blah, blah, blah….. LOL. Have you ever experienced the breaking of a habit? Is it quick? It starts with the seeing…..

I guess you are saying here that this process is similar to an old habit being broken. I’ve certainly had lots of habits and beliefs going or changing over the years. Often the effort to eradicate them was counterproductive; they just faded away in their own time.

And…….????????? What is your response to this????? Are you smiling, laughing????? What else is there!

I don’t think that I’m smiling or laughing. Perhaps a little confused when it becomes apparent that thoughts are not such a great tool for interpreting reality. Yes, it leaves me wondering what else is there?

YES. YES. YES!!!!! How does this sentence feel? Sit with it.

Not identifying with thoughts seems totally opposite to what I’ve spent a lifetime doing. It feels like if this could be seen clearly then that would remove a lot of life’s apparent problems.

Who is getting lost here? Who wants a solution to this? What wants something to do here?

It must be my illusory thoughts of a separate self, can’t be anyone else wanting all these things. He feels really good when there are methods and practices suggested. Even when there are no methods, he conceptualizes the ‘no method method’. But of course it’s just thoughts followed by more thoughts with their incessant desire for change and pleasant sensations.

Love Colin