I would like a guide please.

[Canfora]

Beautiful Dianne. Thank you.

How does it feel to see this way?

Are you seeing that the separated self is an illusion everytime you look?

As always, from what is experienced:

With "you" revealed as a thought story, what remains?

What experiences?

What thinks?

What does?

What is aware?

What controles?

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

Hi Sandra,
It feels like deliberately paying attention to what's happening now. That exercise lasted while sitting in the coffee shop, then once I started shopping the deliberate noticing stopped.
I keep stopping to look and pen is writing, thumb is noticed and as long as I am deliberate in noticing I can keep it up for a short while. So in answer to your question, no I am not seeing that the separated self is an illusion every time I look. But as I write I keep trying to notice pen and hand moving, words just appearing.
With me revealed as thought story what remains?
Thought story isn't persistent enough. Have to really look all the time to keep revealing it.
Experiences are sitting, writing, thinking, hearing and worrying.
What thinks?
Who knows. Dianne just catches glimpses of thoughts and gets carried along until a thought - stop and look brings back writing, thinking and hearing.
What does? No idea. Doing happens.
What is aware?
Drinking water is felt and tasted but I'm not sure what is aware of that. I feel like saying me.
What controls?
Good question, I can't find the answer. Dianne certainly doesn't have time to tell herself to think, breath, take each step. Words come from nowhere. Don't know who controls.

So here I am no closer but deliberately looking as much as I can to see what is happening in the moment.

Hope that helps,
Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne.

I'm aware that I'm being a sort of a question machine sometimes and that this can feel frustrating but the real question here is not what is being experience, it's if there is a experiencer - and the only way to see that is looking to what's being experienced... like you did.

It seems that you're expecting for a permanent state/realization but there is an experience of no-self going on already, effortlessly. Everything you describe is happening without a self. It just is. Even the thoughts saying that noticing stopped and that Dianne comes back.

Everything comes and goes, nothing is permanent. You're answer to "What is aware?" was "I feel like saying me."
Yes, everything experienced is "me" but is this "me" a person, an entity, a thing? Or is this "me" the All, Life, This?

Thoughts can't understand or point to "me". They are also "me" and appearing in "me".

Is this your experience?

Anyway we aren't trying to describe or understand or always be aware of "me". Just seeing if a Dianne can be found in this "me".

There are thoughts about Dianne appearing.
There is a sense of existing appearing - a visceral knowing of the existence of "me".
All is experienced here and now.

Can you find a Dianne also appearing? If yes, what is she and where is she?

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

I'm aware that I'm being a sort of a question machine sometimes and that this can feel frustrating but the real question here is not what is being experience, it's if there is a experiencer - and the only way to see that is looking
to what's being experienced... like you did I don't mind your questions. They always make me look deeper even when answers are illusive.

Everything comes and goes, nothing is permanent. You're answer to "What is aware?" was "I feel like saying me."
Yes, everything experienced is "me" but is this "me" a person, an entity, a thing? Or is this "me" the All, Life, This?

Not sure what is aware. Can't grasp what is aware. Something is aware but it eludes me. I have no knowledge of what is aware. How can words describe something that contains words. I see curtains moving, fingers typing, cloudy sky all contained in awareness, Dianne is also moving, feeling breeze (thoughting) not a real word but trying to relay the unconscious happenings moving through Dianne.
Everything happening is in uncontained space or openness. The writing of this, the thoughts passing through, the feeling of breeze, the sound of mower. The only one clinging to all happening to her is Dianne and yet she knows she isn't in control but the freedom of no control still out of reach.
Thoughts can't understand or point to "me". They are also "me" and appearing in "me".

Is this your experience?
Okay I experience a thought that the fan is cool on my legs. The thought appeared, came into experience without any help from Dianne and appeared in whatever Dianne is appearing in. That's as close as I can get.

Anyway we aren't trying to describe or understand or always be aware of "me". Just seeing if a Dianne can be found in this "me".

There are thoughts about Dianne appearing.
There is a sense of existing appearing - a visceral knowing of the existence of "me".
All is experienced here and now.

Can you find a Dianne also appearing? If yes, what is she and where is she?

I will start by eliminating what Dianne is not.
Thoughts come and go, she isn't thoughts.
Movement happens, she doesn't do it.
Hearing happens not her doing, she can't stop or start hearing with her will.
Seeing happens. As head moves different scenes appear. Is she seeing? By closing her eyes she cuts off the scenes and sees blackness. Seems like she has some control there. But thought came to shut her eyes and that didn't come from a separate Dianne. It was automatic just like blinking.

So if Dianne is not doing all those things if they are just happening and sensations are just happening and Dianne is not in charge of any of this that leaves no Dianne appearing separately from what is happening at present.

Looking for me is so hard. Almost like turning my eyeballs backward to try to look prior to Dianne where if feels everything is coming from. Not sure if any of this makes sense.
Dianne is really a hard case. Thank you for your patience.
Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne.

I will start by eliminating what Dianne is not.

When you say "eliminating what Dianne is not" aren't you implying that a Dianne exists and has these characteristics but not that one's?

Spend some time looking at this:

What makes Dianne *Dianne*?
Here and now - not in thoughts about the past or about the future.

********************************************************************************

After answering the above question have a go with these ones:

Something happens and now you have amnesia. Are you still this Dianne?

If you also completely forget the concept of the existence of a self, would the experiencing of life stop?

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

[quoteWhen you say "eliminating what Dianne is not" aren't you implying that a Dianne exists and has these characteristics but not that one's?][/quote]

I don't think I was implying that Dianne exists with these characteristics and not that one. I just didn't write everything Dianne is not. The ones I wrote are the obvious ones that are blatantly telling me what I'm not so I keep going back to them looking at what's happening in the moment to eliminate all that happens. Writing happens automatically (no Dianne in charge). Hearing the birds (no Dianne doing hearing).

What makes Dianne *Dianne*?
Here and now - not in thoughts about the past or about the future.

What makes Dianne *Dianne*? The noticing in the present, seeing, hearing, feeling through Dianne gives a flavour to seeing, hearing, feeling which is unique to life living through Dianne. As apposed to life also living through my dog. He likes to sniff the chickens butt in this moment and that is not how life experiences in this moment for Dianne.

Something happens and now you have amnesia. Are you still this Dianne?

With amnesia life is living through Dianne in the moment no thoughts of what should or shouldn't be based on past.
Maybe I should knock Dianne on the head and bring on amnesia start afresh with life just happening, now without Dianne trying to control.

If you also completely forget the concept of the existence of a self, would the experiencing of life stop?

If I forget the concept of a self life would live. The controlling would be gone but it's just the forgetting of the concept of the existence of a self that has no say anyway. Everything would still go on, the experience of life wouldn't stop. That's how life is lived anyway just Dianne wants to claim it.

Have a nice night.
Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne,

If I understand your words, Dianne is in some things - like the trying to control - and not in others - like doing actions (writing, hearing,...).
What happens that makes this Dianne appear and disappear?

Maybe I should knock Dianne on the head and bring on amnesia start afresh with life just happening, now without Dianne trying to control.

Well, there is a safer and painless way to do that... just LOOK!

Here and now... is life just happening or are there moments when the flow stops?

When this need to control appears give a good look at what's happening:
- how do you know there's a Dianne there trying to control? What makes her real?
- what is this need to control made of?
- can you see Dianne trying to control?

Give me some examples of moments when this Dianne appears and tries to control something.

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

If I understand your words, Dianne is in some things - like the trying to control - and not in others - like doing actions (writing, hearing,...).
What happens that makes this Dianne appear and disappear?

A thought happens and instead of breeze blowing, hand writing, hearing sounds, Dianne is believing she must get this done. An 'I' comes in by way of thought to get in the drivers seat and take off cruise control. Is she ever in the drivers seat? No. So Dianne thinking she's in control is just another thought that passes as experiences pass. Right now Dianne thinks she has to answer this question "What happens that makes this Dianne appear and disappear?" For some reason this doesn't appear to be a question asked of ALL THAT IS but a question asked of a Dianne. Like everything else is life flowing, but she needs to think as Dianne to answer this question. The same way she thinks she needs to awaken like there's a before and after. Intellectually I know Dianne doesn't get to awaken because she doesn't exist, life experiences through this body.

Here and now... is life just happening or are there moments when the flow stops?

It seems to go like this. Life is happening, head is scratched, foot comes up to rest on bin under computer desk, hearing of birds, hand seems separate just writing on its own. Words feel like they are being said in mouth (kind of like thoughts have to be spoken internally as writing happens). Rainbow colours noticed around room from sunlight on hanging crystal, thoughts of Christmas, then suddenly Dianne thinks "time to get up and do dishes. Now realistically I know that that was just another happening in the endless happenings in daily life but that thought felt like enough of this for today, husband will be home soon from golf and Dianne has things to do. Let's put getting enlightened away for a couple of hours and get back to it later. Yet when I look, really look it has to be that washing dishes happens, thought to put this aside just comes all is just happening. Looking for Dianne I cant find her apart from this body but if I lost my head this I'ness would still be there.

Life's happening even when Dianne's trying to claim ownership. That is part of the flow. Worrying, sitting, rubbing forehead all part of flow. Thought Dianne can't do this, she can't see clearly all part of the flow. Can picture this so clearly life happening.

It's like okay think about this STOP and take a drink of water. YOU need to really think about this because the enlightenment that has nothing to do with a Dianne character has to be brought about by this Dianne character. And that's funny but I have to LOOK at that and if life is flowing and Dianne's just like a passing thought or action she's like a ball getting kicked around a soccer field. She has no say in where she goes or who kicks her next she just goes where she's kicked until the whistle blows. Nobody says "good work ball you did all that you had control".

Keep coming back to scratching face happens, thought comes after and Dianne claims it.

What makes her real. The thought that she's doing it makes her think that she's real.

What is this need to control made of? FEAR. The fear that if daughter's sick I must do all I can to make her better. It's up to me. The fear of if Dianne let's go she wont have a say in anything. The FEAR that if she doesn't hold tight to life it will fall apart. Writing, seeing, hearing (stop daughter walks in room need to greet daughter and see if she's okay - Dianne has to be back in control for that). Hearing, noticing, seeing (stop husband comes in door). Greeting, talking, thinking. Dianne needs to be in control. Writing, listening, seeing tasting, scratching, noticing (stop walk around yard with dog). All thoughts of life happening without Dianne fade and Dianne claims everything. This time is - life just flowing and now come back to the real world and get some work done.

So I am separating myself from life so LOOK really LOOK is what I'm going to do today. Will continue this at the end of the day.
A lot of rambling in all that.
I'll come be back later to answer any questions I missed.

Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne.

You're afraid of seeing no-self and stop being responsible?

What is this fear, where is it felt?

Is this fear caused by thoughts about reality or by something that is happening in reality?

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

Hi Sandra,

I've had a busy day today and have not had time to answer your questions. Going to bed now, will get back to you.

Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne and thank you for letting me know.

[dian]

You're afraid of seeing no-self and stop being responsible?

I want desperately to experience no- self. The thought I have to have control of the situation is just a thought that comes up like all other thoughts. I would cheerfully hand over the reins to no-self and the only way I can see to do this is to recognize in each moment I'm not doing anything. I get it intellectually but still a persistent "I" comes in to claim ownership.

What is this fear, where is it felt?

The fear isn't actually felt anywhere in the body. So that makes it just a thought like any other. It's very evasive when I look for it in the body.

Is this fear caused by thoughts about reality or by something that is happening in reality?

It's thoughts about reality but it's what is happening in reality also. To give an example. Yesterday I picked up my daughter, who is a teacher. She had been sick all weekend but still wanted to go into school. As she had 2 hours off from teaching to catch up on marking and other work in the middle of the day I took her to a quiet place for lunch and had a walk with her afterwards. Then I dropped her back at school. So in reality driving happened, eating happened, talking happened, walking happened. I know this all happened without any assistance from Dianne but Dianne claims it all.

So am I going around in circles?


stop ~ breathe ~ look ~ what's here?

Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne.

How about simply looking at what’s present right now? Do “you” exist at all?

Look at your hands. Their here. They exist.

Look at your i. Where is the i? Can you find it?

Stay with this. Look... what goes around in circles? Can you see it?

Sending love, Sandra

[dian]

How about simply looking at what’s present right now? Do “you” exist at all?

No I don't.

Look at your hands. Their here. They exist.

My hands exist.

Look at your i. Where is the i? Can you find it?

No "I", I can't find it.

Stay with this. Look... what goes around in circles? Can you see it?

No. I cant see what goes around in circles. It's just a thought that I'm going around in circles.

Bye for now
Dianne

[Canfora]

Hi Dianne!

Let’s look a little back in this conversation:

I want desperately to experience no- self.

Should the experience of no-self be different from what is here, right now? How?

I would cheerfully hand over the reins to no-self

Are you saying that there is an entity, state or experience called "no-self" that should somehow be created, reached, attained?

and the only way I can see to do this is to recognize in each moment I'm not doing anything

If you can't see a you when you look, what is not doing anything?

I get it intellectually but still a persistent "I" comes in to claim ownership.

How are you envisioning "liberation" to be?

Sending love, Sandra