The Gate

Hi again Chris
I may start getting tough with you now. I hope this doesn't put you off, but some more direct pointing may assist you to break through this.
You need to examine exactly WHAT IS REAL and WHAT IS JUST A THOUGHT.
We are looking for this real 'I'.

Thanks for your message. What is actually happening is at times looking deeply does not bring up a clearly defined 'I'

If there is a real 'I', should it not be obvious like reading this sentence?
Is it rocket science to find this thing you keep referring to as 'I'? How difficult should it be?
Maybe . . . the answer is staring 'you' right in the face, and you just need to admit to it.

Yet what about this entity that is me, that interacts with the world, with my family, friends?

Is there an 'I' that interacts with things? Or does interaction 'just happen'.
Is there an 'I' that controls interractions?
This is thoughts about the past and the future, yes? What is this 'I' RIGHT NOW? Describe it?
Don't constantly ask questions and analyse and think - That won't help. LOOK!

Is it just thoughts ? If I admit it is just thoughts, wouldn't it just be a compromise or a fake situation?

Don't 'admit' to anything - Find the truth - Only 100% certain truth will do here - But you have to LOOK - Not THINK.
You say that there is an 'I' that can admit to something. Describe that one to me.
Or is this, again, just another thought?

This 'I' that needs fixing is the person that does mistakes, that could have been much better and maybe work more and try more.

This is thoughts about the past and the future, yes? What is this 'I' RIGHT NOW? Describe it?
Don't constantly ask questions and analyse and think - That won't help. LOOK!

The 'I' that wants to be enlightened is comparing itself to others and looks at its flaws as well as the need to get it and liberate itself.

Once again you say that there is an 'I' that can 'become enlightened' in the future.
This is another thought, yes? What is this 'I' RIGHT NOW that could become enlightened? Describe it.

I see that there is no separate 'I' but is this true?

This is for you to tell me . . .
Is there a real separate 'I' here? Or just a thought?

Is there an 'I' reading this sentence? Or is reading just 'happening'.
Is there an 'I' searching to try to find 'I'? Or is searching just 'happening'.

Type your reply to this message. While you do it, find the 'I' that is typing.
Or is typing 'just happening'?

Xain ♥

Xain hi,
Thanks for your message.Yes an 'I' is just thoughts.Thoughts about the past and future, nothing else.No matter how I look I can not find an 'I' that has an objective reality.Hence is just thoughts about how I am and how I should be.
Yes there is no 'I' that controls interactions apart from my thoughts about these interactions with others.
I see what my thinking does by preventing me from just looking and just seeing.I now perceive this pressure in my stomach.i look and find again thoughts.It all looks very simple, but is this so simple?
This 'I' that needs fixing is thoughts , just thoughts.Everything is thoughts.Thoughts and conclusions.Boxes made of thoughts.
The 'I'that needs enlightenment is again thoughts, nothing else.Hence there is something else that is void of thoughts.But again even this is thinking about thoughts.
I start realizing that there is no separate self apart from a bunch of thoughts.Yet there is still doubt about it even though I can not find an 'I' that is doubting.Again it's all thoughts about thoughts.
Yes writing is just happening even though an 'I' still tries to intrude and make itself present.but this is still thoughts
Thanks

Hi Chris

I start realizing that there is no separate self apart from a bunch of thoughts.Yet there is still doubt about it even though I can not find an 'I' that is doubting. Again it's all thoughts about thoughts.
Yes writing is just happening even though an 'I' still tries to intrude and make itself present.but this is still thoughts.

Good. Let this sit for a little while.

If there is no control over thoughts (which you appear to have found, that there is no 'thinker') then thoughts will continue to appear, including the 'I' thought. It is possible to examine each 'I' thought as it appears and question it. See if the thought actually points to something real. It never does.

'I must get rid of I' - A thought about a thought.

If there is no controller, has there EVER been a controller?

Without any thought what-so-ever, what is 'I'?
Without any thought what-so-ever, what is the future and the past?

Notice, however, we can continue out conversation by using 'you', 'I', and 'me' etc just as a convention. There is nothing wrong with that - In fact, communication itself is based upon separation. It could not take place without the 'thought' that there are two 'sides' communicating between each other.

You are doing very well. Feel free to mention anything that comes up.

Xain ♥

Xain hi,
Thanks a lot for your very. Quick reply, I do appreciate it a lot.Yes looking at 'iI' being just streams of thoughts brings relief and makes things easier.the thought never points to something real.It just points to other thoughts.
Continually doing this investigation is helpful but I still feel some tension and tightness inside.
I can not believe it. Is so easy.It also points to nothingness and then all the thoughts about nothingness, positive and negative come up.
What about feelings and emotions like worries and anxieties ,appearing together with thoughts? Do I look at them as thoughts as we'll ?
A controller has started ever since a thought came up.Hence it is just thoughts itself and not real.
Without any thought there is no 'I'.It simply does not exist.It allows me to experience the void.At this point I feel fear.Fear is just thoughts and does not exist either.
Without thoughts the past and future is not there , it is just stories, memories, sensations.
Still feel doubts about this work we are doing together.Doubts is thoughts and thoughts are not objective reality.
Thanks!

I can not believe it. Is so easy.

Yes - It is that easy :-)
We are so conditioned to automatically believe the thoughts that appear.
Once we start looking at the thoughts, we realise what is actually true :-)

What about feelings and emotions like worries and anxieties

Well they are experiences. Most often they are tied to a specific thought that is believed in.
Examine each thought - Look at what is means and see if it is actually true.

Fear is just thoughts and does not exist either.

Any experience, any feeling wether good or bad 'just appears' - I believe you have discovered that there is no control of any kind over thoughts and feelings.
Only the mind will label an experience or a feeling 'good' or 'bad'.
Whatever feeling is being experienced right now is simply happening - Not good - Not bad - Just simply 'here'.

Without thoughts the past and future is not there , it is just stories, memories, sensations.
Still feel doubts about this work we are doing together. Doubts is thoughts and thoughts are not objective reality.

Doubt is fine. It is here :-) It is allowed. No control over it :-)
Let the doubt in and see what is being doubted - Look into it. Analyse it.

Xain ♥

Xain hi,
Thanks for your message. Thoughts keeping popping up in my mind.Yes noticing them and observing them allows us to realize what is actually true.It is not always easy .it helps with taking away all the power we thought thoughts had.
The mind is not always calm , worries about whether this new perspective can last in time appear.
Again a thought about another thought.In between them there is zero ,nothingness.It is a nice feeling, relieving.
And now what? I can not imagine myself going on through life without suffering.Sometimes is like we feel we must suffer.
A thought of being a sinner.a thought about punishment.Well organized bunch of thoughts sometimes fighting with other bunch of thoughts .It looks to be a very simple explanation.I am afraid this is one of those simplistic solutions to my problems that end up being thrown in the garbage , and then a new search for a new way to fix my self starts up.
These are all thoughts that are not real of course and looking at them makes them weaker.
Yes thoughts and feelings keep happening .Feelings are labeled , usually comparing ourselves to others and often demeaning our selves .Hence feeling bad about feelings we experience.
Worries and fears , being thoughts themselves are labeled and hence labeling ourselves with that.
Thanks
Chris

I am afraid this is one of those simplistic solutions to my problems that end up being thrown in the garbage , and then a new search for a new way to fix my self starts up.

Is this a solution? Sorry, if you came here looking for an 'answer' or a solution to a problem, then that was a mistake. You won't get one.

All that can be done is to ask you to look at what you are saying.

Clearly you are certain that there is a real 'I' here that has problems and searches.
I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

Xain ♥

Xain hi,
Thanks for your message.Yes thoughts about relieving suffering , becoming a better person and looking for a solution are just thoughts, coming up from other streams of thoughts that tell me I am not good enough.
Still working on what you say in your message.i still have doubts that am aware they are. Thoughts themselves.
An 'I' is not real , it was obviously fabricated with the help of bunches of thoughts.
All I did in my previous message was to be honest regarding the thoughts happening while I was writing.
Thanks
Chris

I understand.
Ok, Chris, Let's go back to the original question.
If you say 'I', what are you referring to? Look into your experience here and now.
What does the word point to?

Xain ♥

Xain hi,
Thanks for promptly writing back.'I' is initially seen to be this imaginary entity that writes this sentences.it is this bunch of thoughts that includes stories, conclusions, impressions, conditioning sensations.
It includes doubts as I said earlier.Doubts just happen and are referring to other thoughts .Thoughts about how this entity was , how It is now am and how It should be.
This 'I' often disappears and them comes back and disappears again.There is an 'I' struggling, a fearful 'I'.An 'I' made of stories.there is no one here.There is zero, nothingness, bliss.
Then there is fear, insecurity , uncertainty.Another bunch of thoughts is there.A feeling of being lost appears and again there is nothing there, just thoughts.
A question pops up 'who am I' and a stream of thoughts obviously is there , nothing else.
A feeling of weakness powerlessness appears, a need for help and again there is nothing else but thoughts.
A change is felt, there is again thoughts trying to define that change.There is nobody there.
It is 1.46 am here.Need some sleep.
Thanks for your presence
Goodnight
Chris

Hi again Chris - I hope you had some good sleep :-)

Nice reply - But for the moment, look and examine this precise moment.

There is an 'I' struggling, a fearful 'I'. An 'I' made of stories.

Examine each one. I MEAN IT. Examine each one.
Look at what is here, right here and now. Are any of these 'I's you describe here right now?
If not, what does that mean?

You seem to have seen through the illusion of 'I'.
How do you feel?
Do you have any questions at this point, before moving forward?

Xain ♥

Xain hi,
Thanks for your reply and your kind and encouraging words.Yes thoughts do not have the power they used to have over me now.
Things that used to bother me and upset me , do it much less now and are looked upon as just streams of thoughts without an 'I' around.
Still puzzled and confused at times, aware of the change and it looks like there is still a question like is it real? And now what?
There is an 'I' struggling : a stream of thoughts that have to do with control, security perfectionism , having to do with the past and worries over the future.
A fearful 'I' : thoughts of who am I? A stream of thoughts having to do with the need of control, thoughts having to do with the past, the early traumatic loss.Thoughts that life is unpredictable.Tracing thoughts gets you to no 'I' to nothingness.
Stories consisting of thoughts about an unfair life , thoughts having to do with the need for sympathy, support.
Thanks
Chris

Ok, right now in your direct experience there is an 'I' that you have identified - Let's look now at each one.

There is an 'I' struggling : a stream of thoughts that have to do with control, security perfectionism , having to do with the past and worries over the future.

Ok, so here and now there is an 'I' capable of struggling.
Explain how this 'I' that is capable of struggling appears to you.

A fearful 'I' : thoughts of who am I?

So right now you have identified an 'I' that is fearful. How does this 'I' appear?
Which senses have you used to find this 'fearful 'I''? How did it show up / how did you find it?

Stories consisting of thoughts about an unfair life , thoughts having to do with the need for sympathy, support.

What do the thoughts point to? Who is the one, the 'I' that has had an unfair life? Describe it.

Xain ♥

Xain hi,
Thanks for your quick reply.This 'I' that is capable of struggling appears to me as just streams of thoughts, past experiences, memories, sensations , conditioning.Hence there is not any objective reality.Thoughts of not being good enought, thoughts about a need to improve, thoughts about comparing myself.
Everything is thoughts, just thoughts nothing else.Thoughts about what happened in the past and what could happen in the future.No actual 'I' appearing around.
No senses can find this 'fearful 'I' it simply is made of thoughts about the past and worries about the future.
The thoughts about an unfair life and the need for sympathy and support are just thoughts having to do with past experiences and worrying about the future.No actual entity there apart from just thoughts.
Thanks
Chris

Hi again Chris

Great - Some nice replies.

This 'I' that is capable of struggling appears to me as just streams of thoughts, past experiences, memories, sensations , conditioning.

So is there a REAL 'I' capable of struggling here right now?
Are there 'real' past experiences that were experienced by you (as in the statement 'I had past experiences')?
Is there an 'I' here that has conditioning? If so, describe that one.

Hence there is not any objective reality.

Eh? What? Where did that come from?
Where are here looking if there is a separate 'I' here or not.
Whilst I understand the statement, I don't see how you can link it in to the work we are doing.

Right now, this very moment, is there a REAL seperate 'I', not a thought about an 'I', but a REAL 'I' you can find - In any form?

Xain ♥