Help with seeing through the notion of my self

[ChrisG]

Anger/hurt is felt, is there a 'I' feeling it? If 'I' is just a thought, what about 'your dad' or anyone for that matter, your friends, children, people around etc. Is anything more than a story of Chris? Where is the past and future?

Clapping hands together the clap only ever happens right now. Looking carefully at breath sensations it becomes noticeable that by the end of the breath the beginning of the breath is already past. Yet the whole breath is perceived. This is the story of the breath which is occurring in thought. Part of the story is a thought that this breath is ‘my’ breath; although there is no ‘I’ to be found breathing the breath. There is simply breath sensation, a thought of breath and a thought of ‘I’ owning the breath. This story can be extended through memory and imagination to include all breaths breathed and all breaths to be breathed.

There is a picture of a man. In the picture he is happy, he is getting married. The picture evokes memories and feelings arise. The feelings are experienced as sensations in the body and labelled sad. A thought arises claiming the man as ‘my father’. A whole story develops based on the memories.

It's only when we are suffering do we seek for truth or God. When everything is going great, we never bother to. So, take the opportunity that suffering brings and inquire to find out who/what is having it. What makes us suffer. Then you'll know that it's nothing but clinging to the thoughts that arises. Taking ownership of it.

The sadness is suffering. The suffering happens when comparing thoughts and judgements occur; when memories are compared to imagining what might have been.

[Mary Asha]

I loved reading your post. :) Yes, everything is just a story/thought. And thoughts are always of the past/future. NOW is all there is. Always now. 'Now' you don't find any 'I' except as a thought that links the moments together creating a story. Saying that, lets consider the last paragraph you wrote -

The sadness is suffering. The suffering happens when comparing thoughts and judgements occur; when memories are compared to imagining what might have been.

So, is there an 'I' comparing thoughts or judging it?
What about the feelings, is there someone feeling it?
Can I put it this way - Feelings, labelling, memories, imagination, stories are nothing but thoughts?
Finally, is 'I' just a thought?

[ChrisG]

So, is there an 'I' comparing thoughts or judging it?
What about the feelings, is there someone feeling it?

There are just comparing thoughts and judging thoughts; nowhere is there a self-existing ‘I’ to be found ‘doing’ comparing or judging. It is the same with feelings; nowhere is to be found an ‘I’ ‘having’ feelings. There are just bodily sensations, labeling, stories...

Finally, is 'I' just a thought?

Yes.

[Mary Asha]

Now read out 'your' expectations at the starting of this dialogue. What comes up?

[ChrisG]

Now read out 'your' expectations at the starting of this dialogue. What comes up?

“My Expectations: To be happy to have gone through this process of seeing through the illusion of ‘I’, otherwise why proceed? There are habits associated with who I am in this world, irritation when someone gets in my way when walking or driving in town, judgments about the people I work with, deeper habits around food and sex; mostly I run with them, sometimes I see the pain in them. I would like to loosen their hold, reduce the pain.
My concern is that in expecting or wanting this I am simply wishing for a happier ‘me’; and the fear I feel is of failure. How can ‘I’ wish to see through the illusion of ‘me’?”

Your previous question, “Finally, is 'I' just a thought?” and the current request to return to the start of this dialogue has brought up thoughts of ‘rounding off’ and ‘coming to an end’. Whether that is the case or not, it has brought ‘my’ expectations into starker relief. The statement “I would like to loosen their hold, reduce the pain” appears now to be more of a request than an expectation.

‘My’ expectation was/is entirely of a happier ‘me’; the ‘fear of failure’ an indication of the expectation of success.

Thank you for your guiding, Mary.

[Mary Asha]

:) You're welcome again. Since you're LOOKING into the DE and not thinking, this process is becoming easier. Just few more questions to be asked before bringing it to an end.

Spend a day as you would normally do. See if there is any decider/controller/chooser. Do not think, just LOOK at the experience itself. Let the day unfold. Post what happens in DE.

Have a nice day
Takecare

[ChrisG]

Spend a day as you would normally do. See if there is any decider/controller/chooser. Do not think, just LOOK at the experience itself. Let the day unfold. Post what happens in DE.

Today is a morning of meetings with work colleagues. Noticing that ‘I’ thoughts occur as a subject is brought up and develops importance, ‘I’ latch onto it and views grow and become attractive. A lot of the time the noticing is lost sight of but then the ’seeing’ of a situation is there again, the ‘I’ thoughts and the need to own something don’t grab so hard and the interaction with other people becomes fun. Emotions arise and it’s OK for them to be there; to speak from them without fear or the need for a particular outcome.

Later, there is a quieter period with little to do but the occasional simple interaction with another person; there is a relaxed freedom within a delightful conversation with a young girl about diving with sharks. Walking up stairs there is awareness of the enormous complexity in the action, how can anyone control this?

Then back into the rush of tasks to do. Dissatisfaction arises with the thought ‘I won’t get away as early as I want to’ and the attention is lost for a while. A comment from a colleague brings attention back to what is happening.

Sitting in a café after work and reading a book. After a while there is a very quiet thought about getting up and leaving which slowly develops. There is an increasing tension in the body with this thought. At some point getting up and leaving happens.

[ChrisG]

It is interesting to see the process around clicking on the submit button. The thoughts about whether the post is ready or not appear unrelated to the action itself which often comes as a surprise.

[Mary Asha]

I like the way you managed to describe what happened without using 'I'. Once it's known that it's just a thought. It feels little awkward to use it. But then it's fine to use it, because language is entirely subject-object, when in reality there is just subject[ONE].

Emotions arise and it’s OK for them to be
there; to speak from them without fear or the
need for a particular outcome.

I love this part. Yeah, you're right. Emotions are fine, no need to suppress it.

It is interesting to see the process around
clicking on the submit button. The thoughts
about whether the post is ready or not appear
unrelated to the action itself which often
comes as a surprise.

:)

I'll get back to you in a short time.
Takecare

[Mary Asha]

So Chris, do you exist?

[ChrisG]

So Chris, do you exist?

Does Chris exist? No
Does ‘Chris’ ‘think’ ‘he’ ‘exists’? Yes!

[Mary Asha]

Does ‘Chris’ ‘think’ ‘he’ ‘exists’? Yes!

Game of thoughts? :)

[ChrisG]

Yes

[Mary Asha]

Are you ready to answer few final questions we ask? or is there anything left to clarify?

Takecare

[ChrisG]

Yes, Mary, please ask questions. At the moment there is nothing to clarify. Or rather, nothing to ask about right now! Just sitting with an experience.

Many thanks