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Re: I'm ready, Ilona. Will you help me?

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:50 pm
by capestar47
Yes, shift is subtle. Sometimes not even clear when it happened, only that it happened. It can be noticed, when you look back, that something is no longer there.
That describes my experience perfectly!
When you look at Gail today, what do you notice?
There seems to be space that used to be filled with lots and lots of thoughts, sensations, feelings that I labeled as "me" in an exhausting effort to try to keep "me" and "my world" together. The phrase, "the unbearable lightness of being" comes to mind, only it's very, very bearable. The "freedom" and "flowingness" I described in my post on Monday were there, but with an ease and naturalness I hadn't expected; no bombast or drum rolls, just simple being. Went from activity to errand to rest to chore without grabbing onto anything, or when grabbing was noticed, it was easily released. It wasn't even an active "release" as such, there just didn't seem to be anything for it to stick to or anyone there willing to try. It feels so natural.
When you look at husband, is there a separate entity inside that body?
Nope - no entity there, either, though Jerry - at this point, anyway - thinks it's just empty words and more of his beloved's quirky "spiritual" preoccupation. In relating to him, though, it seems easier to just let him be as he is; no need to poke or prod at something that simply isn't there. Letting the interplay of our lives unfold without "trying" to fix anything seems simpler. That apparently is what is happening anyway! Any change will emerge as it does. Very nice to let go of a control "I" never had. It should be interesting to see what's next.

Oh, Ilona, there are no words to describe my gratitude! Thank you, thank you, thank you! Based on your experience, is there any additional inquiry I need to explore at this point? Does this sound like "the real deal" to you?

I remember reading something about post-liberation support, if desired. I suspect there may be the need for such, at least occasionally. It would be nice, once things stabilize and you feel I'm ready, to offer this to others as a guide. It seems nothing short of a miracle, and yet the most natural thing in the world. This is the only "pyramid scheme" I've ever encountered that offers truth and freedom, not dollars - priceless!

Re: I'm ready, Ilona. Will you help me?

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:23 am
by Ilona
Awesome! Thank you :)

Your answer show me that you are through :) can you say YES, it is obvious and clear that there is no separate entity in charge, no I behind the word I, that manages what happens in life?
Are you ready for the final questions?

If there is doubt, what else can we look at?

Big hug and a smile!

Re: I'm ready, Ilona. Will you help me?

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:11 pm
by capestar47
I can indeed say, "Yes,it is obvious and clear that there is no separate entity in charge, no I behind the word I, that manages what happens in life." It used to feel like there was a little someone/me that resided behind my eyes that was steering me through life. (Funny image of a scene from one of the "Men in Black" movies - the top of some guy's head flips back on a hinge revealing a tiny alien that was in the driver's seat...right behind where the eyes were. Ha!)

In fact, I've been sitting here trying on phrases like, "my iPad," "my cats" (well, maybe not a good example, if you know cats), "my hands," "I am going to...," and they don't make sense at all and feel completely empty. There's no little entity in there to claim any of it.

The only questions that seem to remain are somewhat existential in nature. For example, if life is simply unfolding as itself, moment by moment, how do moral choices get made? Does the dropping of the belief in a self help life flow more freely in a positive way somehow? That kind of stuff.

But neither the questions nor the possible answers affect the fact of what has been realized here. There is no personal self. Period.

So, yes, I'm ready for the final questions, Ilona. Bring it on!

Re: I'm ready, Ilona. Will you help me?

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:40 pm
by Ilona
Oh, it's so great to read your words! I'm very happy for you.

Haha, "my cats", that put a smile on a face. These little furry creatures can not be owned :) I got one of them too, but its more like he owns us.

So here are the questions, no rush, just answer when ready, in full.
If there are any sticky points, I will be able to see them.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Much love.

Re: I'm ready, Ilona. Will you help me?

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:11 am
by capestar47
Okay, here goes:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
There is absolutely no separate entity, "self," "me," or "I" at all, anywhere, in any way shape or form - no way, no how, nada. There absolutely never, ever was. As I look now, I can't even find a trace of anything that could be construed as a "me," and actually have a hard time remembering what it was like to believe that there ever was such an entity. I detect thoughts that were until recently a basic if not essential part of my "operating system," but they've become just blather in the background; they have nothing to do with a sense of "self." They're familiar thoughts in many cases, and often repetitive, but their influence has become fleeting and nearly nullified as "looking" has led to "seeing."
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
I remember when I was young enough not to be able to stand up without holding onto the sides of my crib; that's pretty young, I guess (Google says 9-11 months. My mother told me I also walked early; I certainly talked early!)

It was night and Gail was supposed to be asleep; she wasn't. There were sights, sounds, sensations, awareness of being awake…awake…awake…There was a sense of "there" and "here;" and perhaps "them"…over there (family's voices on the other side of the barrier), and "me," here on this side of the maroon velvet drapery.

At least that's the way that particular memory has played itself out over the past 60+ years. Was the actual experience that inspired that memory "real?" I certainly don't know, probably not; but I resonate with it as a first memory of a feeling of "me" and "here," as opposed to "them" and "there." Was it a sense of separation that created it? Has memory itself created a quality of perception or awareness that didn't really exist then? I don't know. I just know it's an image embedded in my memory.

I have the same kind of "memory" from having whooping cough when I was also about two, coughing, coughing, crying, and lying in that same crib. There's no specific memory of what was felt, just the impression of being in that crib crying, tossing and turning - almost like looking down on that baby Gail who was really, really sick, and having compassion/empathy for her.

There's also just the flash of whiteness, coldness, and a later report of being left at the hospital (much later known to be for a tonsillectomy) when I was three.

After that, nothing comes into focus until I was four, then five, then… In other words there are a few somehow memorable and/or traumatic moments that come forward, then they (and "me") disappear for months and sometimes years at a time. These are snippets of images long past, but they remain in some form today; they were part of some experience of impact…then.

Who did they happen to? How did a sense of "me" develop from them? Where was "I" in those long intervals of no memory? Nowhere, I now see. I know that these images aren't "true" to what actually "was" at that time; but they, along with the words and the intensity/intention of how they were directed toward "Gail," contributed to her learning that all this was happening to a person, an important someone, who needed to understand that all this was happening to "her!"

Those moments of simply being aware of what was in those moments, supported by lots of examples of, "You are…," "Did you…?," "You did/didn't…," and "You should have,"... not to mention all the, "Gail is…," "She is…," "You will be proud of her because…," - and the list of ways we come to believe the stories about and images of who and what we are seem never ending.

What is the illusion of the separate self? It's a learned perception that there is - not only an energy force, a fluid expression of life - but a separate being, entity, thing, not only different from everything and everyone else, but having its existence somehow separate and distinct from all that is…and that is YOU!

NOT!
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels beyond liberation, yet subtle and gentle! My energy is lighter, freer, better able to recover from stressful events, more willing to go with the flow of what is emerging in the moment. I'm no longer wasting energy trying to create a character - actually several of them, depending on the circumstances and others involved - and then work hard to maintain it/them. Good grief, it was so exhausting! (The habit still kicks in occasionally in situations that prompted extreme insecurity in the past, but - wow! - the effect/impact is brief and has no lasting impact - no after-the-fact self-brutality…whoohoo!)

I'm far less - I mean way far less - inclined to cling to emotional states, especially negative ones (probably positive ones, too, but I don't notice those as much at this point); I'm more aware of them when they happen without "trying," notice their "feeling tone," and find it a whole lot easier to just let them be without either blocking them or indulging them. Sometimes there are old familiar thought loops that kick in and slow the letting go / letting be down for a while, but they don't seem to have much to stick to any more. It's also excruciatingly simple and obvious…once there was skilled guidance to look.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
I'm not sure about this. There was no big "Aha!" The awakening was gradual, cumulative, subtle, gentle. It kinda slipped into my awareness day by day, even while I was sleeping; and then I woke up and something had cast an anchor that - as my nautically-inclined husband, Jerry, might say, "…took a good bite and held."

While we were dialoguing, Ilona, even when I wasn't actively replying online, the desire to see and to know was insistent - even urgent - whether actively in my awareness or not. There was always the background of absolutely wanting the truth about this. There seemed to be no turning back.

And I know this is just the beginning, even though I've been a "seeker" for 30-40 years. But this is a piece of the puzzle that brings such relief! Such a deep, deep breath of freedom! Such an eagerness to see "what's next?!"
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Nope. No control at all, even though there are thoughts that imply the "maybe" about choosing. As I look at it closely, though, I see - even though there's a reflexive gasp at the throat level - that each moment leads to the next and the next. I'm not even sure right now what "choice" is. That may be the remaining glitch in the framework. It seems that I do what I do. Nothing happens but for what has come before; and who knows what flutter of a butterfly's wing may have led to what I do or say now or now or now?

There is awareness of wanting to believe in choice, wanting to believe in intention; but control?…that one is blown out of the water…gonzo! Whether or not we - anyone - can choose or intend, I honestly don't know. To the degree that the thoughts, alignments, activities of this lifestream can contribute to the river's flow and life's unfolding, I trust that the process we are engaging in is simply what is and must be so.
6) Anything to add?
Nothing but, "Thank you, thank you, thank you!" Even if you notice any "sticky points," I will welcome them and gladly dive in for more…with gratitude!

Re: I'm ready, Ilona. Will you help me?

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:41 pm
by Ilona
Tha was delightful to read! Welcome home!

Yes there is much happening next! But first let this settle, it may take a few days. Trust at all is happening as it should. And when you are ready to explore, there is a whole new world. There is also work to do. Like clean up the old beliefs at are still going to show up and intense emotions to let out, this is not an end. It's a beginning of living life without belief in a separate I. It's an exciting journey ahead.

Let me invite you to join FB groups, I will send you a message.

Big smile and lots of love.

Re: I'm ready, Ilona. Will you help me?

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:00 pm
by capestar47
Oh, Ilona, thank you so much for guiding me to this moment! I'm eager to do whatever work that presents itself, and look forward to connecting with others on the FB groups. Perhaps the "next step" will emerge soon from there. Lord knows I've done years and years of therapy, groups, workshops, programs, retreats - you name it! I'm SO ready to move on with this "knowing" as a fresh starting point.

Much love and appreciation and gratitude to you!

Gail