The Gate

Hi NenRight.

How about noticing thoughts? How is noticing of thoughts experienced?

Earlier you said this:

Thoughts just show up from no where and no one...And they drift off into no where.



Interesting. So you are noticer that notices? There is a personal you after all? As a noticer?

No there isn't a noticer thoughts arise into awareness from no where for no one...There is no personal me no noticer...



Thoughts come up and they goThe goal of this process is not to silence the thoughts, to make them stop coming. The goal is not to be aware of thoughts either. What does it mean to be aware of thoughts? What can be aware of thoughts?

Thoughts are just seen by no one aq thought comes up and is seen as a thought but when I really look at who's seeing the thought I cant find anyone!!!


This is not the goal of this inquiry, so it's not happening. Maybe that is what is frustrating. This process can't make you a better noticer, it can only invite you to LOOK: are you a noticer? If there is no you, then what noticing means? What can notice what?

I can only say for sure that thoughts are seen and when I look by who I can't find anyone solid a (noticer)...Thoughts are seen...This seems to be the best way I can describe it a thought surfaces for no one and is just seen... I just heard a loud noise outside and as recognized that the sound was heard but I cannot find the hearer...

I'm feeling some peace aroound this today...just letting go a bit.

Nenad I am kind of computer illiterate so I am not sure even after viewing the quote link how to use it??? Is it to respond in quotes to your responses and questions back to me? Like you do above with my responses? Sorry:)

Many thanks:)

Hi!

No there isn't a noticer thoughts arise into awareness from no where for no one...There is no personal me no noticer...

right

Thoughts are just seen by no one aq thought comes up and is seen as a thought but when I really look at who's seeing the thought I cant find anyone!!!

What do you mean by 'thought is seen as a thought'? Look closely into this.

I can only say for sure that thoughts are seen and when I look by who I can't find anyone solid a (noticer)...Thoughts are seen...This seems to be the best way I can describe it a thought surfaces for no one and is just seen...

Are all thoughts seen or only some of them?

I'm feeling some peace aroound this today...just letting go a bit.

:)

Nenad I am kind of computer illiterate so I am not sure even after viewing the quote link how to use it??? Is it to respond in quotes to your responses and questions back to me? Like you do above with my responses? Sorry:)

No worries

Hi Nenad!!!

What do you mean by 'thought is seen as a thought'? Look closely into this.

Did I really say that:) No it is not seen as a thought... Thought is just seen and not seen "as thought" In fact unless I stop and look all of "me" is thought!



Are all thoughts seen or only some of them?

This one hit me really hard! Yes all thoughts are seen there are no thoughts that go un-seen:) This feels really clear to me...And the more i sit with this the thoughts that surface are seen and acknowleged as a thought...Does that make sense? I have difficulty explaining that?

Thank you Nenad...I so want to keep at this:)

Love!

Hi!!

This one hit me really hard! Yes all thoughts are seen there are no thoughts that go un-seen:)

Good. Then look at this statement and tell me how do you feel about it now:

What I find to be the case as I sit here is thoughts never stop coming and some pass with little or no noticing (just un-aware) and some thoughts are important to what I call me so it seems action follows thoughts.

Hi Nenad,

I made that statement....Hmmmmm? I don't agree with what I stated there. All I know are thoughts come up and all are noticed! But when I look for the me or the noticer I can't find one. What I am finding to be the case if looked at is the thought stream is constant....thoughts coming and going and at times in my day I ask first where are the thoughts coming from (no answer)! And who sees these thoughts (thoughts are seen but no one can be found)... At this point this is as clear as I am with this question. There still seems to be difficulty explaining it in words though:)

Nenad at this point I'd like to ask you, do you have any suggestions on what can be done between posts to keep this looking going as a way to keep the questioning alive and active?

Thank you:)

Hi:)

I made that statement....Hmmmmm? I don't agree with what I stated there.

Good. If you are not noticer of thoughts, then do you control anything in life? If yes how? If not, then how does it work?

Nenad at this point I'd like to ask you, do you have any suggestions on what can be done between posts to keep this looking going as a way to keep the questioning alive and active?

Yes. Look: when walking, eating, dressing up, brushing teeth, everyday activities:
Is there anything that is not automatic in those activities?

Love:)

Good. If you are not noticer of thoughts, then do you control anything in life? If yes how? If not, then how does it work?

No I do not control anything in life... How it works? Action is taken and there isn't anyone in control of any of it...I searched to find the one that makes a decision to act on a thought and I find no one! So as sure as that seems to be to me, in terms of the how remains a mystery other than stuff just happens...And the topper is it happens to no one:)

Yes. Look: when walking, eating, dressing up, brushing teeth, everyday activities:
Is there anything that is not automatic in those activities?

Thanks for the push to Look all day in all activities... As I do look it becomes clearer to me that everything is automatic!!!
Funny as I close out this post the question sprang up then who is this breathing being seemingly responding to this post then? I closed my eyes and I asked that quetion again, what came up was where is this person sitting and typing this response? When I looked I found no one! The conclution was typing this response is just happening...

Love,
Bob

Good, Bob.

in terms of the how remains a mystery other than stuff just happens...

What do you mean "it reamains a mystery" ? Tell more

Love

What do you mean "it reamains a mystery" ? Tell more

It seems as though there is some sort of energy making or causing things to happen. If there is no me an energy of some sort makes things happen. Thats the best I can explain it? As you can see I am not in any way sure about this? What I find when I look there is no solid me here...Things still happen and if there is no me to make things happen there is an energy somewhere i believe making things happen....Why is this so hard to answer? I need your help with this one I guess??? Thats why I say its a mystery...I only know things happen in this supposed life to a person called Bob and I find no Bob when I look??? But thoughts come up and some are moved on by??? And thats the mystery if it isn't this Bob it is an energy somewhere or it's all just one big illusion... Uggghh!!! Hang with me Nenad!!!

Love:)

Hi :)

And thats the mystery if it isn't this Bob it is an energy somewhere or it's all just one big illusion...

Well, is it one or the other? Look closely at this.

Uggghh!!! Hang with me Nenad!!!

Sure :)

Love

Hi Nenad,
Well, is it one or the other? Look closely at this.


I have toiled over this question Nenad and I know there's a movement of energy and in that movement action on thoughts and sensatons happen...There is no me in control of any of this life is being lived. Again when I sit with this it's clear that there is no one here. So much of what happens throughout the day thoughts and sensations seems so real to a "me" and yet when I look for me I can't find it...And as I take more time to sit with this the awareness of this energy kind of living life comes to me. I struggle with words as I try to explain this Nenad! Maybe I'll stop here and wait for your response. Thank you!

Love:)

Hi!

I know there's a movement of energy and in that movement action on thoughts and sensatons happen...

How do you know this?
How is energy experienced?

action on thoughts and sensatons happen...

Tell more about this. How can action happen 'on thought'? Answer in detail.

Look at this:
Was there a yesterday and is there a tomorrow?

How would you know of a yesterday?
How would you know of a tomorrow?

Love

Hello Nenad,
Thank you so much for reading and responding to my last set of responses!
These are the questions you asked me and my responses…
How do you know this?

Because stuff happens and there is no one (I can find) doing or controlling any of it. But life is somehow lived.

How is energy experienced?

This I am not sure of? The only thing that I find is there is no me!!! Yet something is aware at the very core that this life or maybe this story is somehow happening and there is a steady deep awareness seeing it all unfold. But yet this awareness is not the one doing any of this as best I can tell???
Tell more about this. How can action happen 'on thought'? Answer in detail.

Look at this:
Was there a yesterday and is there a tomorrow?


At this point I believe that there is only now this very moment...And if a thought about a yesterday or tomorrow comes up it's another thought in this moment...Now what’s hard is unless I look at this very hard as has been the case in my working with you Nenad it would seem Bob is a solid entity running the show today, tomorrow and yesterday...But when I sit and look for Bob I find no one...

How would you know of a yesterday?
How would you know of a tomorrow?

Only by a thought of a yesterday or tomorrow... There is only this moment.

As I sit here responding to your questions frustration again comes up. Nenad I have read as I have said hundreds of books and listened to as many pod-casts. I feel like I have an intellectual perspective on some of this and I can't help but feel in many of my responses that understanding seeps into my responses and hinders any movement??? Does that make any sense? It seems even though there is no solid me when I look the story of this character is strong and someplace is bought into! I feel stuck and frustrated. Can you help me understand from the work we have done where I am at and why/how I keep slipping into this character role so easily?
Much Love:)
Bob

Hi Bob :)

Because stuff happens and there is no one (I can find) doing or controlling any of it. But life is somehow lived.

Yes, there is life. Does it need any energy to be lived? What is energy anyway?

How is energy experienced?

This I am not sure of?

Well, look into this and other stuff you are not sure about (re-read the thread to see where you mention "I don't know" or "I'm not sure" or wherever you didn't give an answer you are 100% sure about).

Tell more about this. How can action happen 'on thought'? Answer in detail.

You didn't answer this. Look at this closely.

At this point I believe that there is only now this very moment...

Don't believe anything. LOOK to see if it's possible that there is nothing but now. This dream analogy might help:

In the opening instant of a dream you find yourself speeding along a highway towards the airport, because you're late for your holiday flight, because your wife couldn't find her passport.

Now you will notice that this is just the opening instant of the dream, yet it contains a whole "history" of being a person who is an adult, and married to a woman who left her passport behind, etc, etc, and it contains "memories" of having the drama with the lost passport, and it has a whole imaginary future too, in the flight and the holiday.

Do you see the analogy that I'm trying to draw?

Only by a thought of a yesterday or tomorrow...

Yes, and can a thought about yesterday know anything about yesterday?
Can the thought know anything about 'previous thoughts'? Can it remember anything? Are there previous thoughts?
Look at this closely.

There is only this moment.

How does it feel to see this?
Do you see the implications of this insight?

As I sit here responding to your questions frustration again comes up.

What is this frustration? Look at it deeply. What is frustrated? Take a close look at this.

Nenad I have read as I have said hundreds of books and listened to as many pod-casts. I feel like I have an intellectual perspective on some of this and I can't help but feel in many of my responses that understanding seeps into my responses and hinders any movement??? Does that make any sense?

Yes, it does. I agree. Looking at information you gained from books and pod-casts isn't recomanded. Instead look at naked, raw experience. What is there right here right now, with as little conceptual abstractions, as possible?
Look when eating, dressing up, walking... - experience what whatever shows up without labeling it.

It seems even though there is no solid me

Is there some subtle 'me'? Energetic 'me' maybe? Spiritual 'me'? Are you awareness?

I look the story of this character is strong and someplace is bought into! I feel stuck and frustrated.

What looks at the story? Bought into by what? What feels stuck and frustrated? Please don't say "I don't know". I'm not looking for some absolute truth. Give me your best shot (when you are 100% sure that it's your best shot).

Can you help me understand from the work we have done where I am

You tell me :) Read though this thread and look what is clear and what doubts are still here.

and why/how I keep slipping into this character role so easily?

You obviously have some expectations about how this is supposed to look like and when they are not met thought says: "I'm slipping into the character role". So what are those expectations? Be 100% honest.

Lots of Love! <3

Nenad, I can't respond right now if thats ok I had a death in the family... I will try and respond later today or tomorrow morning...I did review your response lot's to respond too:)

Thanks,
Bob