Requesting a guide

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris

Being is the present. I is a though, a projection into past and future.

Yes. So I ask again. Is ‘I’ a thought? Is past a thought? Is future a thought? Did past ever exist? Or is it made up of thoughts about what you think happened? Look.

As for the present. To be truly present, is to experience. In experiencing there is not the interjection of I. If i am on a table getting a massage and thinking about taxes, well, i am not really on the table getting the massage, as I am not present. "I" is somewhere else.

Do ‘you’ control thought? Look at thought very carefully.

The frustration is coming from uncertainty.

It is a feeling, because there is this though/feeling of why bother?

Look again. What is frustration? Is it a thought or feeling? Do you control its rising and falling?

I feel like there has been no change in me.

Tell me one thing that is the same as yesterday, that had remained a constant without change for a solid 24hrs.

The experience is certainly me. The thought that comes up - the label so to speak - would be more me projected through filters of conditioning.

Hasnt your experience come through labels and conditioning too? Look.

It may be telling me because I have tried other methods and never been able to stay in the state for any period of time.

An expectation of staying in the ‘state’ permanently. You need to drop that.

There is also the possibility that the frustration is me preserving myself.

YES! Look and see your mind doing this.

Preventing the growth or discovery that would perhaps threaten the image of myself I have created.

YES! Look and see your mind and thoughts doing this.

You are making me think. Thank you. I also have a ever so slight tendency to over analyse.

DON’T THINK! DON’T ANALYSE! LOOK! Look at thoughts, look at mind, if you think then mind is doing the looking and it is very biased. You said it yourself – it labels and it has been conditioned.
Sarah xx

[truthseeker]

Good morning Sarah,

Yes. So I ask again. Is ‘I’ a thought? Is past a thought? Is future a thought? Did past ever exist? Or is it made up of thoughts about what you think happened? Look.

Past is a thought. I will not go into whether it truly happened or not, but any reconstruction that I have of it is purely thought based upon elements that I recall. Future is thought.It is real under the linear assumption of time, but saying something as concrete as the sun will rise tomorrow is a thought projection based upon previous observations of patterns. I is a thought.

Do ‘you’ control thought? Look at thought very carefully.

Do i control thought? That question is a nice slipknot. via thought figuring out if thought can be controlled. It is not easy, Ultimately as I go down the rabbit hole I keep going in the same circle. As it spirals deeper, there is nothing at the center. So I do not control thought. Thought just is. Thought happens, and the control is an illusion in the fabrication of the construct of I.

Look again. What is frustration? Is it a thought or feeling? Do you control its rising and falling?

Frustration is a feeling. It is an emotional response to a thought. The rising and falling seem to happen without my involvement. Although with acceptance I can let it go.

Tell me one thing that is the same as yesterday, that had remained a constant without change for a solid 24hrs.

One thing that is the same as yesterday? nothing

truthseeker wrote:
The experience is certainly me. The thought that comes up - the label so to speak - would be more me projected through filters of conditioning.

Hasnt your experience come through labels and conditioning too? Look.

I think I was less than clear with my verbiage for experience. What i intended to say (or at least mean now) is experiencing the present is me. Not my past experiences. Or perhaps the present is all I am. Still may be missing the mark. Yes, past experience has come through labels and conditioning. But true experiencing of now does not.

Dropping expectations for staying in the state.

Looking without filters and labels and judgement and analysis is not easy. There is a lot of conditioning to kick out of the way. I am working on it.

Thank you,
Chris

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris

I is a thought.

Are you sure now? Look again at this. See this sentence in life.

As it spirals deeper, there is nothing at the center. So I do not control thought. Thought just is. Thought happens, and the control is an illusion in the fabrication of the construct of I.

Yes. Pay attention to this. Look for it happening.

Although with acceptance I can let it go.

Can ‘you’ control acceptance? Isnt that another thought?

One thing that is the same as yesterday? Nothing

Yes. See this in life. See this happening.

What i intended to say (or at least mean now) is experiencing the present is me. Not my past experiences. Or perhaps the present is all I am. Still may be missing the mark. Yes, past experience has come through labels and conditioning. But true experiencing of now does not.

Look at this again. Are you ‘present’, are you ‘now’? Can ‘you’ ‘be’ any other time? Look during the day. Is there anything getting in the way of ‘true’ experiencing? Is it actually possible to not be in the ‘now’ to not be present now.

Dropping expectations for staying in the state.

Looking without filters and labels and judgement and analysis is not easy. There is a lot of conditioning to kick out of the way. I am working on it.

Can you drop expectations? Can you control that? Do ‘you’ do any of this? If ‘I’ is a thought as you stated earlier, how can ‘you’ kick it out of the way? Just see them when they arise.
How is the frustration now? Do you still feel 'you' own it? That it is 'yours'? Or has it passed by like the clouds? Might it come again like the clouds? How does that feel?
Sarah xx

[truthseeker]

Hello Sarah,

truthseeker wrote:
I is a thought.

Are you sure now? Look again at this. See this sentence in life.

I am sure now, because the only really it holds in through projection or creation. I am fishing or the right words, but it can only exist as a construct. It is certainly a very convenient label but that doesn't make it real.

truthseeker wrote:
As it spirals deeper, there is nothing at the center. So I do not control thought. Thought just is. Thought happens, and the control is an illusion in the fabrication of the construct of I.

Yes. Pay attention to this. Look for it happening.

Reflecting and observing I see how thoughts don't seem to follow my will, they are frequently more reactionary or anticipatory to situations. Since they have been a relative constant in my existence, I have attached them to my identity.

Can ‘you’ control acceptance? Isnt that another thought?

perhaps I am digging the hole deeper, or just flipping the logic. Acceptance is a thought. But conversely instead of accepting perhaps allowing or not resisting.

Look at this again. Are you ‘present’, are you ‘now’? Can ‘you’ ‘be’ any other time? Look during the day. Is there anything getting in the way of ‘true’ experiencing? Is it actually possible to not be in the ‘now’ to not be present now.

I am always present and in the now. All that gets in the way o true experiencing is me. I thought it was both possible to be present and not to be. getting caught up in thoughts gives the illusion of being somewhere other than here or now. But that itself seems illusory. Still in the present, just not present.

Can you drop expectations? Can you control that? Do ‘you’ do any of this? If ‘I’ is a thought as you stated earlier, how can ‘you’ kick it out of the way? Just see them when they arise.
How is the frustration now? Do you still feel 'you' own it? That it is 'yours'? Or has it passed by like the clouds? Might it come again like the clouds? How does that feel?

there is less attachment to expectations. they seem to be fleeting and nebulous. not clear, and certainly not so much a goal as a possible outcome. kind of like a choose your own adventure book. Reading all the endings first, but not sure which, if any, of the outcomes i will end up with. The frustration... had a good dose of that today with events. It seems to pass more easily. there is still attachment, but less of it, and it did seem to pass much more easily. thank you.

Sincerely,
Chris

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris

Reflecting and observing I see how thoughts don't seem to follow my will.

Look again at this. Watch the thoughts, see how they move, see how they come and go, see what they say.

Acceptance is a thought. But conversely instead of accepting perhaps allowing or not resisting.

Can ‘you’ allow? Can ‘you’ accept? Can ‘you’ not resist?

I am always present and in the now. All that gets in the way of true experiencing is me.

What do mean here? Your thoughts?

Kind of like a choose your own adventure book. Reading all the endings first, but not sure which, if any, of the outcomes I will end up with.

Can you ever really know what will happen?

The frustration... had a good dose of that today with events. It seems to pass more easily. there is still attachment, but less of it, and it did seem to pass much more easily.

Look at your frustration. Watch it, see how it moves, see how it comes and goes, look at what it says. Watch it like a hawk looking for dinner!
Sarah xx

[Sarah7]

Sorry - an extra

I am always present and in the now.

Explain this please. What do you mean 'you' are always present. What is there to be present?
Sarah xx

[truthseeker]

Hello Sarah,

truthseeker wrote:
I am always present and in the now.

Explain this please. What do you mean 'you' are always present. What is there to be present?

Correction. The present is always here and now... Old habits are hard to break

Look again at this. Watch the thoughts, see how they move, see how they come and go, see what they say.

The thoughts seem to be pulling me in habitual patterns based upon the outside stimulus. It is like a complex computer program that responds in predicable patterns based upon logical loops. They have different agendas (some survival, some social, some hedonistic), but they are patterns none the less.

can ‘you’ allow? Can ‘you’ accept? Can ‘you’ not resist?

Not if there is no "me" to do so... cant take baby steps off a cliff (or leap of faith) either jump or don't

truthseeker wrote:
I am always present and in the now. All that gets in the way of true experiencing is me.

What do mean here? Your thoughts?

.

the construct that has been created that defines me obstructs and distorts being in what is. like watching life in a funhouse. and thoughts are a big part of it

Can you ever really know what will happen?

No, but to choose to engage in this pursuit, there is an assumption of change, but what it will be is largely an unknown. Can i explain color to a blind man? well, in this case i am blind, and i only expect whatever it is to see is something different from where i am. Yet still the same.

truthseeker wrote:
The frustration... had a good dose of that today with events. It seems to pass more easily. there is still attachment, but less of it, and it did seem to pass much more easily.

Look at your frustration. Watch it, see how it moves, see how it comes and goes, look at what it says. Watch it like a hawk looking for dinner!

The day (un)fortunately has been kind. Not many challenges or lessons. There is a greater ability to see in a larger perspective. I was expecting the process to be like switching on a light, but already on an intellectual level there is a greater clarity and equanimity. Now just to get through the intellectual to the core.The frustration as of late seems to be more distant and less intense. I will continue to watch, because it has something to teach.


Thank you for your patience,
Chris

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris

Correction. The present is always here and now... Old habits are hard to break

So ‘you’ are not here in the present? Please write how you see it, not how you think 'I' want to see it.

The thoughts seem to be pulling me in habitual patterns based upon the outside stimulus. It is like a complex computer program that responds in predicable patterns based upon logical loops. They have different agendas (some survival, some social, some hedonistic), but they are patterns none the less.

Yes.

Not if there is no "me" to do so... cant take baby steps off a cliff (or leap of faith) either jump or don't

What do you mean ‘if’? There either is a ‘you’ or there isn’t. You must look. See if you can find this ‘you’. Look everywhere. DO NOT GUESS – HUNT!

the construct that has been created that defines me obstructs and distorts being in what is. like watching life in a funhouse. and thoughts are a big part of it

Explain please. What construct that defines ‘you’.

No, but to choose to engage in this pursuit, there is an assumption of change, but what it will be is largely an unknown. Can i explain color to a blind man? well, in this case i am blind, and i only expect whatever it is to see is something different from where i am. Yet still the same.

Expectation? What is assumption?

The day (un)fortunately has been kind. Not many challenges or lessons. There is a greater ability to see in a larger perspective. I was expecting the process to be like switching on a light, but already on an intellectual level there is a greater clarity and equanimity. Now just to get through the intellectual to the core.The frustration as of late seems to be more distant and less intense. I will continue to watch, because it has something to teach.

Expectation? You want to learn this? This is not an intellectual pursuit. This is purely a looking exercise, and as I keep reminding looking is the key, not being intellectual with what you see, or thinking instead of looking. Thinking will NOT help here.
Keep looking. Only this.
Love Sarah xx

[truthseeker]

Brief flash of insight. At lunch. 1 drink waiting for salad. Anxiety happened. There was waiting for a reply for communication. There was anxiety. There was tension. There was the understanding. The flash. The knowing that they were happening. But not I am....

Whether this is whatever it is, or no "progress" at all I don't know. I don't care. It feels different.

I will give a real reply when I am at a computer with time, but this had to be shared with you. There are smiles

Thank you,

Chris

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[truthseeker]

Hello Sarah,

Lunch was fantastic. I had to write the message as it happened, the being was different from my 'regular' experience. Everything was happening, but not 'to me' it just was. the subtle but profound shift created a very big grin. It had to be shared with you. Again, I want to let you know the deep and profound sense of gratitude I have for what you are doing to help. Now back to work....

So ‘you’ are not here in the present? Please write how you see it, not how you think 'I' want to see it.

I am caught... 'I' am sucked into the drama of the present. Not the experience itself. I am getting sidetracked, pulled out of what is, and into scenarios and drama. Getting attached to the fleeting thoughts and emotions. not moving freely with the flow of life and experiences. clinging to every root i pass in the river instead of floating along with the flow.

What do you mean ‘if’? There either is a ‘you’ or there isn’t. You must look. See if you can find this ‘you’. Look everywhere. DO NOT GUESS – HUNT!

I know. I agree. Intellectually there is no me. It is that deeper acceptance that is the leap. The leap was taken today. Felt a little more like a bungee. got my feet a little wet, and then pulled back out. The water was fine :-). There is no me. I felt it. I believe it. I know it. Frankly defining and confining this existence as 'me' and 'i' is very limiting and confining. Strange.

Explain please. What construct that defines ‘you’.

At this point That idea of a construct is my Soap Opera. My drama. The character that was created that has been played by me. The experiences, habits, fears, attributes, relationships and definitions that make up Chris.

Expectation? What is assumption?

Expectation - projection of thought. Assumption - expecting past patterns to predict future outcomes. Neither necessary where I am, but both served a purpose to push and motivate the pursuit to get here.

Expectation? You want to learn this? This is not an intellectual pursuit. This is purely a looking exercise, and as I keep reminding looking is the key, not being intellectual with what you see, or thinking instead of looking. Thinking will NOT help here.
Keep looking. Only this.

I looked, and saw something. It was liberating. I couldn't tell you if it was being done "right" or "wrong". When I said "but not I am..." in my lunch posting - to elaborate - it meant - But not i am... (anxious) (tense) ... for that time emotions and thoughts were not defining identity. Everything just was.

have a wonderful day Sarah,
Chris

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris

Brief flash of insight. At lunch. 1 drink waiting for salad. Anxiety happened. There was waiting for a reply for communication. There was anxiety. There was tension. There was the understanding. The flash. The knowing that they were happening. But not I am....

How do you feel now?

I am caught... 'I' am sucked into the drama of the present. Not the experience itself. I am getting sidetracked, pulled out of what is, and into scenarios and drama. Getting attached to the fleeting thoughts and emotions. not moving freely with the flow of life and experiences. clinging to every root i pass in the river instead of floating along with the flow.

Is it possible to be out of the river? When? How?

I know. I agree. Intellectually there is no me. It is that deeper acceptance that is the leap. The leap was taken today. Felt a little more like a bungee. got my feet a little wet, and then pulled back out. The water was fine :-). There is no me. I felt it. I believe it. I know it. Frankly defining and confining this existence as 'me' and 'i' is very limiting and confining. Strange.

So what happens to ‘you’ when the bungee cord is pulling you out of the water? Do ‘you’ come back?

At this point That idea of a construct is my Soap Opera. My drama. The character that was created that has been played by me. The experiences, habits, fears, attributes, relationships and definitions that make up Chris.

And what is a Soap Opera - a story? And what is a story - a collect of thoughts? Is your Soap Opera real? Is it ‘you’?

I looked, and saw something. It was liberating. I couldn't tell you if it was being done "right" or "wrong". When I said "but not I am..." in my lunch posting - to elaborate - it meant - But not i am... (anxious) (tense) ... for that time emotions and thoughts were not defining identity. Everything just was.

What is ‘right’ and ‘wrong’? Are they just words? Thoughts? A collect of thoughts? Labels?
Love Sarah xx

[truthseeker]

Hello Sarah,

How do you feel now?

I feel like I had a moment, and now i feel that being can be accessed with less effort, but still habitually drawn into old ways.

Is it possible to be out of the river? When? How?

The river analogy is a taoist reference (the watercourse way - one flows with the tao), so my consideration was not getting out of the river, rather flowing easily with it without resistance. As for getting out, it was never a consideration. The answer to when and how would be now and by being.

So what happens to ‘you’ when the bungee cord is pulling you out of the water? Do ‘you’ come back?

Yes. 'I' came back. The habitual patterns returned. That was why it was imperative that I post my experience as I was in it. Both to let you know, and to see in my own words the experiencing. But to go back to a previous query of yours, nothing is the same today as yesterday.

And what is a Soap Opera - a story? And what is a story - a collect of thoughts? Is your Soap Opera real? Is it ‘you’?

You are so right. That is getting past the intellectual level and into my being. It is not real. It certainly is not me. It is the story I have believed to be me.

What is ‘right’ and ‘wrong’? Are they just words? Thoughts? A collect of thoughts? Labels?

There was some word play in my post. I know there is not right and wrong. There just is. Labels, duality... and the like. But there is also the desire to know if I am getting closer, if I am on the path. That whole ego, confirmation, uncertainly and fear. Truth be told, yesterday made me exceptionally glad to be on this path, and for your assistance and guidance. I experienced a shift.

Thank you,
Chris

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris

The river analogy is a taoist reference (the watercourse way - one flows with the tao), so my consideration was not getting out of the river, rather flowing easily with it without resistance. As for getting out, it was never a consideration. The answer to when and how would be now and by being.

Does this mean you are in it all the time? Explain please.

Yes. 'I' came back. The habitual patterns returned. That was why it was imperative that I post my experience as I was in it.

Are you sure ‘I’ came back? Or is it just a feeling of ‘I’? Or is it a thought of ‘I’? A feeling of me-ness? Look. Did you really come back?

You are so right. That is getting past the intellectual level and into my being. It is not real. It certainly is not me. It is the story I have believed to be me.

What are ‘you’ now then? Look. Has it really changed? Look underneath what you thought you were.

But there is also the desire to know if I am getting closer, if I am on the path. That whole ego, confirmation, uncertainly and fear.

What desires? What needs a path? What needs to be closer? What needs confirmation? What has uncertainty and fear? Look – it is all the same thing that needs these things.

I experienced a shift.

What experienced a shift? Or was there just shifting being experienced? Look.
Sarah xx

[truthseeker]

Hello Sarah,

In the context of the river:

Does this mean you are in it all the time? Explain please.

I don't know. I have always understood the pursuit of the tao as being like following the river. Not fighting the current. Merrily merrily merrily, life is but a dream... But on reflection now, who is to say i am not the river as well. Where is the line drawn. Why the limit of boundaries? Why be just a man in the river, and not the river. And we all know the river is the ocean in the end. and that is the rain....

Are you sure ‘I’ came back? Or is it just a feeling of ‘I’? Or is it a thought of ‘I’? A feeling of me-ness? Look. Did you really come back?

Like I woke up from a dream. Or more like it - went back to sleep before I woke up. The feeling of I came back. The habit of I. But different. The belief in I is weakening. Like in back to the future where Michael J Fox starts to dissolve. Not sure if I was ever completely gone, but certainly was less there.

What are ‘you’ now then? Look. Has it really changed? Look underneath what you thought you were.

"I" am becoming more what I was. There is a growing understanding of that. Memories keep coming back of childhood and this draw to the infinite (very early - 4 or 5 years old). "I" have always been working to get back there. The real essence that has always been there has been striving to return to being. I know it is a circular logic, but it is like this journey is returning home. It is a deeper level of the construct that is me. Past these memories, all the memories, thought, emotions and experiences is awareness. That is all. Still working on allowing it to be.

What desires? What needs a path? What needs to be closer? What needs confirmation? What has uncertainty and fear? Look – it is all the same thing that needs these things.

I do. That which is I. The thinking feeling and controlling part. To know he is doing something. and getting closer. Like my frequent joke. we try to relax. Haha. Because they are opposite.

What experienced a shift? Or was there just shifting being experienced? Look.

There was shifting. "i" remembered and processed it later.

Wishing you a splendid day.
Chris

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris

But on reflection now, who is to say i am not the river as well. Where is the line drawn. Why the limit of boundaries? Why be just a man in the river, and not the river.

So you are in the river always? Have you ever been out of it? If so what makes/made you not a part of it? Look.

Not sure if I was ever completely gone, but certainly was less there.

Do you have the expectation of losing ‘I’ completely?

"I" am becoming more what I was.

How can something that is not there become something? Look.

That is all. Still working on allowing it to be.

Is it possible to not allow it to be? Can you control that? Can you force that? See what doesn’t ‘allow’ it to be. What is that that doesn’t allow?

I do. That which is I. The thinking feeling and controlling part. To know he is doing something. and getting closer.

And does this ‘I’ really exist? Can this ‘I’ control or do or get closer? Look.
Love Sarah xx