Would someone be willing to guide me please?

[Matt13]

Take a look at decision and control. Go for a walk. Now notice, each movement from the point there is a thought of going to walk, moving muscles to add mobility and taking steps. Can you actually think yourself to walk?

I can't think myself to walk. My body responds to thought but I don't seem to consciously control which thought. So I can look at my hand and tell it to move and nothing happens, and the next thing I am typing this post and the body is off doing it's thing without me. Or, I find I'm talking to myself about something :)

Next, make a choice between red and blue pen, apple or orange, tea or coffee? Find out what made the decision? Was that you or was it the Big Bang? What is cause and effect and what is self in control?

I have no idea what makes those decisions. I can't see the decision point. It looks like a decision just appears to be made at some point. There are times I've found myself trying to decide something, like where I will go this evening, and then I realise I won't be making the decision anyway, it will just somehow be made, so I can relax and not worry about it. I don't mean I an irresponsible or rash about it, just that I don't need to worry about it.

Wow, I've just realised something else, I don't have to worry about how my entire day will play out. Yes, I have a schedule and things to do but they will play out whether I tense up and try hard or relax and let be. In fact, all days have always been like that. I think I have a plan, but it plays out how it will anyway. Often, the planned things get done, often they don't. So, I've never been a Matt in control, just a collection of stuff playing out life. That means the past is the same as the future, just a bunch of stuff playing out. So no reason to worry about what happened in the past either.

Is there a self? Still a lingering thought that there must be, but really, really unsure about that now...

Matt

[kvotski]

Good stuff, Mattie.

Find out if being unsure about the self isn't also just a thought passing through. How can you be certain of anything that is just a thought? What are all these thoughts and stuff about self? Are they real or just nonsense?

Great progress, buddy.

[kvotski]

You may find this u tube video very useful.

http://youtu.be/B4tflb6RNt0

Check your expectations as Elena says in this. What you imagine liberation to be like will never happen because that too is an idea made up by a self that doesn't exist?

[Matt13]

Check your expectations as Elena says in this. What you imagine liberation to be like will never happen because that too is an idea made up by a self that doesn't exist?

I'm not sure what my expectations are Sunil, there is so much out there describing liberation, awakening, enlightenment or whatever it's called. There is definitely an expectation that something will change, that I will know when I pass through the Gate. I don't know what the change will be as it's described in terms ranging from 'is that it?' to 'oh my god!my life is like one long orgasm baby!'. I think I imagine it as changing from a cast-iron to a non-stick pan. I'm still cooking the same stuff but the crud slides away more easily. I don't think I have unrealistic expectations of my life suddenly becoming awesome, though there is probably a sneaky hope there. I do think that I imagine life will become more OK, more right, more authentic perhaps.

It's a holiday weekend here and I have had some time to walk a bit and sit a bit and watch what is going on with thoughts, feelings and sensations. There are times when I am convinced I see that self is just a thought. Later, after I have been caught up by a strong emotion or train of thought, and suffered and muttered and got aggravated over the unfairness of anything bad happening, or got lost in a delicious fantasy, I have doubts about what I saw earlier. If I saw and knew that the self isn't real, then how does it still have the power to take over? And again, if there is no self, how come some strong emotions keep coming back over and over?

Matt

[kvotski]

.... I have doubts about what I saw earlier. If I saw and knew that the self isn't real, then how does it still have the power to take over? And again, if there is no self, how come some strong emotions keep coming back over and over?

Doubts arise when we are not certain. Are you or are you not sure that You, your and self are just thoughts? If you are not then ask the question yet again, what are you?

As you have seen before, all actions, movements and decisions happen by themselves as part of creation. How can you have any power over them? Can you show me why you feel and how you, a bunch of thoughts, has power to take over?

What feels the emotions, you the thought or the heart in your body, the stomach or the eyes? What cries, what gets angry? Localise all emotions and see where they are? Are these emotions just thoughts or do they have a real existence?

Read the above lines you worte again and tell me you do not have an expectation of a life without strong emotions? If you think there is a way of letting you off the hook if you hurt some one or you are hurt by some one, tell me what that is and I will join that group too. Stuff floating around the books and u tubes are pure wishful thinking. There is but only one way to end suffering and that is to end the sufferer, my friend.

[Matt13]

Doubts arise when we are not certain. Are you or are you not sure that You, your and self are just thoughts? If you are not then ask the question yet again, what are you?

Right now, I'm not sure. As I look, I can see thoughts cropping up and I can see that they are just happening. I can also clearly see decisions just being made without direction from "me". There are times this feels very natural and relaxing. When I turn my attention to this feeling of me, myself, and try to see that as just a thought I seem to become more firmly embedded in "me" than ever. As long as I am looking at other things like a bird, or my hands, or a thought about work I can see there is no thinker or doer. Examine "me" and I hit a wall.

As you have seen before, all actions, movements and decisions happen by themselves as part of creation. How can you have any power over them? Can you show me why you feel and how you, a bunch of thoughts, has power to take over?

I can see that things just happen, when it's quiet and I have time to pay attention and look. Trouble is, it feels like there is a me looking, and as I am caught up in the day it feels as if things are happening to me. Struggling to see things as clearly as thought I did even a few days ago.

What feels the emotions, you the thought or the heart in your body, the stomach or the eyes? What cries, what gets angry? Localise all emotions and see where they are? Are these emotions just thoughts or do they have a real existence?

I can't give you an answer to this one yet, I need to look further. Today, this suddenly feels very opaque and very hard.

[kvotski]

Hi Matt,

For you to do the following as you suggest, there is a tacit assumption that you are not willing to let go. You seem to think that there is you which you want to find, so you are examining it even though you can't find it. There is a you looking, the you that you can not locate.

. Examine "me" and I hit a wall.

Trouble is, it feels like there is a me looking, and as I am caught up in the day it feels as if things are happening to me. Struggling to see things as clearly as thought I did even a few days ago.

You need to find out why? Obviously your rational mind is finding reasons to believe that there is a you as thought operating this body and mind. What are those reasons?

Language is often a problem as well since " we " say " we" do not exist. How can that be? Who is saying this? Right?
Try to answer this paradox.

[kvotski]

What would happen if you did find out that you do not exist without any doubts?

[Matt13]

You need to find out why? Obviously your rational mind is finding reasons to believe that there is a you as thought operating this body and mind. What are those reasons?

Survival, it seems. When doing exercises like watching birds being labelled or decisions being made there is no threat to the self. Start to look for the self, to see if the self is really there and the thought of self hardens. Intellectually, self is just a thought. In direct experience, confronted or examined directly, it seems to be hanging on for dear life.

Language is often a problem as well since " we " say " we" do not exist. How can that be? Who is saying this? Right?
Try to answer this paradox.

Is is a paradox? If there were truly a self then self looking at self would be a paradox. If self is just thoughts, then self looking at self is just more thoughts. It could go on for ever, self after self after self, thought after thought after thought, just happening.

What would happen if you did find out that you do not exist without any doubts?

Ha! Yes! Nothing. Everything would be the same, nothing would be lost, even thoughts of self appearing and disappearing. But those thoughts would no longer feel real, in control.

Matt

[kvotski]

Hi Matt,

Fear is perhaps the most common reaction to this search for truth. The anecdote is what you said yourself at the end. Nothing happens. No change, nada to life before. Fear is simply a thought based on an assumption that there is a master who was making all these wonderful things happening, is leaving. There never was.

Survival, it seems. When doing exercises like watching birds being labelled or decisions being made there is no threat to the self. Start to look for the self, to see if the self is really there and the thought of self hardens. Intellectually, self is just a thought. In direct experience, confronted or examined directly, it seems to be hanging on for dear life. ]

Ha! Yes! Nothing. Everything would be the same, nothing would be lost, even thoughts of self appearing and disappearing. But those thoughts would no longer feel real, in control.

[kvotski]

Here is a Spira video that may hit home;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq248KMOh8I

[kvotski]

Hi Matt,

How are you doing?

Fear of losing self is like other fears, just thoughts. I find to fight fear detailed information helps. Over the year I find that mind is naturally paranoid, in love to protect me, to spur me to look into all the possible ways to make sure I am safe. Sometimes it is relentless until I have looked at all angles in detail and become comfortable that all is well. A similar exercise here is also beneficial. Imagine in detail how would life change if there was no Matt making the decisions? Go into your past actions and see if it wasn't the body and mind that protected itself rather than thoughts claiming to be Matt interfering with the process.

Please keep in touch.
Best wishes.

[Matt13]

Hi Matt,

How are you doing?

Fear of losing self is like other fears, just thoughts. I find to fight fear detailed information helps. Over the year I find that mind is naturally paranoid, in love to protect me, to spur me to look into all the possible ways to make sure I am safe. Sometimes it is relentless until I have looked at all angles in detail and become comfortable that all is well. A similar exercise here is also beneficial. Imagine in detail how would life change if there was no Matt making the decisions? Go into your past actions and see if it wasn't the body and mind that protected itself rather than thoughts claiming to be Matt interfering with the process.

Please keep in touch.
Best wishes.

Hi Sunil,

Still here! Sorry I didn't post yesterday. I enjoyed the video, made a great deal of sense.

If there were no Matt making the decisions then the decisions would still be made. I understand that clearly, or it's seen clearly. I'm getting odd reactions to this. As I just sat down to answer your posts I nodded off to sleep instead of posting. Over the last day or so I thought I was looking hard at this issue of the self until your new post reminded me that I hadn't actually sat down, looked properly and answered. Instead I was avoiding it. It feels as if I am trying to persuade myself that self doesn't exist, rather than seeing self clearly as just more thoughts.

Matt

[kvotski]

No Matt. You are trying to persuade yourself not to look at the fear. Look at it. It is simply a bunch of thoughts....

[Matt13]

No Matt. You are trying to persuade yourself not to look at the fear. Look at it. It is simply a bunch of thoughts....

It doesn't feel like fear in the sense of a sensation in the body. It feels like mugginess, opacity, an inability to see what is happening, though it must be fear and resistance. As I've looked at this throughout today I've had a couple of periods where it's obvious that all the thoughts, including the self are unreal. That the only reality is what is being seen, heard, felt. Thoughts aren't part of the real world, they're a fantasy. Sometimes they are about the real world, and sometimes that's useful, but they are still just passing by. That always has to be true, but it doesn't stop them swallowing the attention. I feel a bit like I am going in circles here. Maybe I'm expecting some kind of fanfare to tell me I'm on the right track. I feel that once I've accepted or seen that the self is just passing thoughts then that should create some permanent change in my perception. Am I wandering way off track here Sunil?