Thank you for guiding me

[Detox]

okay more from you tomorrow - thank you

[Bowzie]

Hi Vimalasara

Is it possible to notice emotions without a label?

Emotions are felt as sensation in the body, experience. Maybe following a thought or experience. So the emotion, felt sense of in body/heart. In the vastness is separate from I'ing, selfing thoughts. Before the walls came down, these two were inextricably intertwined. The emotion only experienced through the distorting story of I. However when the walls came down the vastness gave space in between the selfing thoughts and the sensation of experience including emotion. So my answer is it is possible to notice emotion without label.

However, labelling in terms of descriptive labelling of sensation is useful, but I assumed your question meant the labelling of particularly selfing sticky ones. I understand though that whenever there is labelling there is selfing. And whenever there is emotion there is selfing. But There seems to be a difference between "I'm in pain" and "there is pain", and "sensation of tightness", when all stems from the same experience, they are all labels.

Are emotions felt by anyone or happening to anyone?

Emotions are felt. Emotions are happening. There is no separate sense of I to feel the emotion. There is just feeling, just happening. Again out of the void, may be conditioned by underlying samskaras, by the stories.

I am still pondering this question, is seeing enough? Do you mean that having seen no separate self, do I believe there to be no separate self, or do I believe it is too subtle to be seen, or hiding somewhere in the vastness? I think that, if it was in the vastness, I would have a sense experience of it, if I am to believe the stories of how big and important self is, then surely it would be experienced! If it was hiding outside my experience, surely I'd have experience of that? Some how. So yeah, seeing and experiencing the deep blue vastness is enough for me,

I don't very often experience big emotions, but I feel like the pendulum is swinging less. May be because I am not creating the secondary suffering us much or not attempting to control the situation as much. It all just is arising and ceasing, like the waves. Nothing for me to do, but with each rise and fall as fully as I can.

It feels like i've found new rooms in a house I've been living in for years. How could I not know they were there? And once I know, I can't forget. The house has more room, it's bigger, there's more space. And the loud selfing thoughts that narrate experience of life, although sometimes loud, can now just be a gentle radio in a far off room.

With love
SJ x

[Detox]

Hi Sj, thank you for sharing alot. This is really great - and all part of your process.

I've highlighted some things for you to reflect on. You write

"I feel like there is more pain in my body because my stories aren't sticking to it as much and I am noticing that more."

Can you see the story in this? is this really true?

I experienced this today when being spoken to nastily by my supervisor, again. I feel righteous indignation when critical thoughts arise about someone else. Again, a form of aversion. I also like chocolate. I dont know, does that mean I have or haven't seen through the illusion?

Can you see the story in this? is this really true? Does there need to be a self in all of this?

And whenever there is emotion there is selfing

- If there is no self - there is no story. Yes emotions arise, but when there is no self, there is nothing to identify with them. When we believe in the illusion of a separate self we may well think that whenever there is emotion there is selfing. But when we see through the illusion we see that is possible for selfing not to happen when emotions arise. Emotions is energy. And nothing else, until of course the illusion of self is created and the deluded self acts out the emotion.

When I state that selfing / sankharas is mere conditioned arising, no doer, precisely not-self, not evidence of a self. What does that mean? Sit with this in one of your new rooms and reflect on this -

So yeah, seeing and experiencing the deep blue vastness is enough for me,

I picked this quote out - as it struck me that the question I had asked was not really answered. And so I am going to ask it again. So please try to answer the question directly. Without another question. There is no hidden agenda in this question it arose out of you saying.

Is there something more than seeing? More seeing? Is there more to see? From my experience, there is nothing else.

I ask you again. Because saying

you see and eexperience the deep blue vastness is enough for me

does not answer the question. Those rooms you speak about look there. They may actually be the same rooms with furniture moved around and some furniture discarded. May well be the same rooms but are much emptier - so they feel unfamiliar and new. Look in these rooms and then please answer.

Are you saying that you have experienced seeing through the illusion of separate self and can see there is no separate self ever?



with kindness Vimalasara

[Bowzie]

Hi ya Vimalasara

Thank you for your reply. It is amazing what you are doing for me.

I've highlighted some things for you to reflect on. You write
"I feel like there is more pain in my body because my stories aren't sticking to it as much and I am noticing that more."
Can you see the story in this? is this really true?

I can see the stories yes, there is energy in the body. Everything else is the label I give to the experience.

"I experienced this today when being spoken to nastily by my supervisor, again. I feel righteous indignation when critical thoughts arise about someone else. Again, a form of aversion. I also like chocolate. I dont know, does that mean I have or haven't seen through the illusion?"

Can you see the story in this? is this really true? Does there need to be a self in all of this?

Labels, labelling sensation. Stories. No, there does not need to be a self in this.

- If there is no self- there is no story

But there is not a self, the thoughts are the story.

Yes emotions arise, but when there is no self, there is nothing to identify with them.

My experience was that it was the thoughts which Identified with the experience. There is no self, but still the selfing thoughts identify with experience. There is still identification of the experience through the selfing thoughts, so I have not seen through the illusion of self.

When I state that selfing / sankharas is mere conditioned arising, no doer, precisely not-self, not evidence of a self. What does that mean?

It means that I am investing my believe of self in the selfing thoughts, i understand that the thoughts, the story are not the doer or self. The samskaras are conditioned and therefore not fixed or substantial, as are the thoughts.

Sit with this in one of your new rooms and reflect on this -

There are no rooms to sit in. I was using that to describe the experience. I have to get the walls down though. They are not down all the time.

You originally asked

is there something more than seeing required?

and i did think that seeing was enough, having seen this arising and ceasing of selfing and how it is separate from experience. But I am still identifying with the emotion, so yes, something more than seeing must be required, even if it more seeing, or believing!

Those rooms you speak about look there. They may actually be the same rooms with furniture moved around And some furniture discarded. May well be the same rooms but are much emptier - so they feel unfamiliar and new. Look in these rooms and then please answer.

[/quote][/quote]

I'll wait in the vastness, but I don't know what I'm looking for anymore.

Are you saying that you have experienced seeing through the illusion of separate self and can see there is no separate self ever?

no, I thought I had seen, but obviously not. What i saw, considerably shifted my perspective and had an effect. But The thoughts of I still continue and still sometimes get intertwined and identified when strong energy is felt.

with love
SJ x

[Detox]

Sj thank you for your honesty and gratitude. I want you to know that you have glimpsed the illusion of no self, as you say in your closing statement your perspective has shifted.

no, I thought I had seen, but obviously not. What i saw, considerably shifted my perspective and had an effect. But The thoughts of I still continue and still sometimes get intertwined and identified when strong energy is felt.

Thoughts of I will continue when you have seen through the illusion of a separate self. And sometimes they will get intertwined and identified when strong energy is felt. But when you have seen through the illusion of a separate self, whenever this happens you will feel disturbed, you will see clearly what has happened, let the identification go and know that there is still more work to be done. Craving and ill will are the 4th and 5th fetter. We are working on seeing through the illusion of the first fetter - the illusion of self. But I see that the second fetter of doubt in your seeing is arising, despite the fact that you see the stories and you see the mind labelling. But I can see that there is something getting in the way of you seeing through the illusion of self. The identification of strong emotions that take root in craving and ill will. So please be gentle with yourself - we are looking at progress and not perfection. There is no perfection. There is nothing to attain. I say doubt because you clearly state in this last thread

No, there does not need to be a self in this.

So somewhere you are seeing, perhaps on an intellectual level, or perhaps not, but I want you to bring personal experience of this seeing, these next few days. Give space to reflection in every part of your waking life, it will slow you down, but you will become more mindful.

Sj you have been reciting the Heart Sutra for several years now. It is part of the Triratna practice, the community that you belong to. I want you to open a puja book and relearn every line of the heart sutra. Not rote learning. But learning the meaning of each line. Write each line down and ask yourself what am I saying here? what does this mean?

As you recite it I want you to reflect on each line -as you say it out aloud. The Heart Sutra is clearly telling us something. What is the Heart Sutra telling us? Where can we experience the teaching of the Heart Sutra in our own personal life?

(please do not answer these questions tomorrow. I really want you to reflect on every line of the heart sutra and experience this in your bones.) Again, pause, open

But yes, I want you to keep writing every day to me.
1. And tell me what stirs up for you as you reflect on the fact that there is no self, never was, never will be, the self has just been an illusion - that trick you once spoke about.
2. What does it feel like not to see that there is never ever a separate self?
3. What would it mean to not identify with your emotions? What would life be like? Rather than answer this of the top of your head. I want you to observe this the next time an emotion arises, don't identify with it - and see what happens.

with kindness - be aware of what the mind takes hold of. karuna - vimalasara

[Detox]

Sj thank you for your honesty and gratitude. I want you to know that you have glimpsed the illusion of no self, as you say in your closing statement your perspective has shifted.

no, I thought I had seen, but obviously not. What i saw, considerably shifted my perspective and had an effect. But The thoughts of I still continue and still sometimes get intertwined and identified when strong energy is felt.

Thoughts of I will continue when you have seen through the illusion of a separate self. And sometimes they will get intertwined and identified when strong energy is felt. But when you have seen through the illusion of a separate self, whenever this happens you will feel disturbed, you will see clearly what has happened, let the identification go and know that there is still more work to be done. Craving and ill will are the 4th and 5th fetter. We are working on seeing through the illusion of the first fetter - the illusion of self. But I see that the second fetter of doubt in your seeing is arising, despite the fact that you see the stories and you see the mind labelling. But I can see that there is something getting in the way of you seeing through the illusion of self. The identification of strong emotions that take root in craving and ill will. So please be gentle with yourself - we are looking at progress and not perfection. There is no perfection. There is nothing to attain. I say doubt because you clearly state in this last thread

No, there does not need to be a self in this.

So somewhere you are seeing, perhaps on an intellectual level, or perhaps not, but I want you to bring personal experience of this seeing, these next few days. Give space to reflection in every part of your waking life, it will slow you down, but you will become more mindful.

Sj you have been reciting the Heart Sutra for several years now. It is part of the Triratna practice, the community that you belong to. I want you to open a puja book and relearn every line of the heart sutra. Not rote learning. But learning the meaning of each line. Write each line down and ask yourself what am I saying here? what does this mean?

As you recite it I want you to reflect on each line -as you say it out aloud. The Heart Sutra is clearly telling us something. What is the Heart Sutra telling us? Where can we experience the teaching of the Heart Sutra in our own personal life?

(please do not answer these questions tomorrow. I really want you to reflect on every line of the heart sutra and experience this in your bones.) Again, pause, open

But yes, I want you to keep writing every day to me.
1. And tell me what stirs up for you as you reflect on the fact that there is no self, never was, never will be, the self has just been an illusion - that trick you once spoke about.
2. What does it feel like not to see that there is never ever a separate self?
3. What would it mean to not identify with your emotions? What would life be like? Rather than answer this of the top of your head. I want you to observe this the next time an emotion arises, don't identify with it - and see what happens.

Next, as you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc.
Is there a WHO living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
Big difference.
Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body."

with kindness - be aware of what the mind takes hold of. karuna - vimalasara

[Bowzie]

Hi Vimalasara

Thank you for your encouraging message. I look forward to letting the heart sutra deeply into my being. No work today, so although there is family, birthday cakes to make and children to stop fighting and entertain there has been more space to reflect today. In every spare moment, I have been reciting the heart sutra.

as you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc.
Is there a WHO living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?

Brushing my hair, there is no I. Chopping the vegetables and generally cooking for my family, there is no I. I am happily absorbed cooking. General habitual daily activities, there is no selfing happening, there is just the doing. Cycling too, there is no conscious effort of moving the legs etc, speaking too...it just happens.

The identification of strong emotions that take root in craving and ill will.

Yup, something happens here. Shock, pain...etc. An amour is built Or something.

Sj you have been reciting the Heart Sutra for several years now.

Yes, coming up to 14 years now.

As you recite it I want you to reflect on each line -as you say it out aloud. The Heart Sutra is clearly telling us something. What is the Heart Sutra telling us? Where can we experience the teaching of the Heart Sutra in our own personal life?

I have been line by line, going through the heart sutra today at times. This morning firstly, saying a line, or a few words and letting it sink into me, and seeing what happens. 14 years, and I've never done this. It's all empty, empty of self and empty of fixed ness and substantially. Nothing to hold on to. The empty thoughts of I, the delusion, the dream, hooks on to an experience, which is also empty.

And tell me what stirs up for you as you reflect on the fact that there is no self, never was, never will be, the self has just been an illusion

What struck me today, was "here, then" of all the things to be struck by! When I say struck by, I mean that it had a significant effect on my experience. Like a roller coaster to the depths. "feeling, thought, choice, consciousness itself" also. A bit like the six element practise.

First thing this morning though I wrote, straight after I opened and paused with this. "Laying in my bed, letting each line of the heart sutra sink deeper permeating the depths. I had the experience of everything playing out. The bodhisattva of compassion. There is the sensation and the thought; the heart aches and aches and aches. A sense of infinity and of this set of conditions. Sense of wonder. Memory of this feeling when I was a child, a feeling I could not describe. Only the infinity and something of the amazing ness that these conditions come together. There is energy of emotion and crying. With no thought of I. Just emotion."

And then again this evening, I sat next to my son as he dropped off to sleep. Going through the heart sutra again, I notice this sensation in my solar plexus like a stone. Empty. Akshobhya in front of me, as real or empty as everything else, crying again. No thought here or sense of i, just emotion. Just energy. You asked

What would it mean to not identify with your emotions?

well at this point, there was a thought that i wanted to know 'why' this was happening. Which I then dropped and went with it. No biggie. Just was, and then wasn't. Flow. Flow of energy. Just like floating and going with whatever is. Laying on a lilo on the sea, feeling the waves.

What does it feel like not to see that there is never ever a separate self?

So far, it feels spacious and freeing. There is a trust...ie that my legs just pedal or whatever and my hands just chop. All this stuff just happens. it is a beautiful arising and ceasing.

Tomorrow is back to work, and I will be Focussed on that all day, recording every six minutes of time, does not leave much room for reflection. But I make the most out of moments in the kitchen and toilet! Tomorrow evening I am taking a women's group, but I will write and tell you any reflections and if i notice what my mind takes old of.

With love
SJ x

[Detox]

Hi Sj, feels like something is moving in your process. Keep on doing what you are doing, as there is less story, less identification. Remember what we offer here is guiding you to see that there is no personal self anywhere in reality.

Keep on reciting the heart sutra let it permeate your whole being and listen to what it has been teaching you these past 14 years. Do you believe the words you have been saying for the past 14 years?

You are back at work today - so you can practise every time a strong emotion arises, every time you are triggered. What would it mean not to identify with the emotion? Identify with the thoughts that arise? (while you are at work)

And a few more questions?

There is body yes? Is there an Sj? What is Sj? Where is Sj?

[Bowzie]

Hi Vimalasara

The body has been feeling unwell today. The thoughts have been whether I am going to be sick or whether I can get through the day.

so you can practise every time a strong emotion arises, every time you are triggered.

My supervisor is away for the week, so no very strong emotion. She sent an email apologising, again. Sadness. I met a friend for lunch and felt groggy, mind was unclear.

What would it mean not to identify with the emotion? Identify with the thoughts that arise? (while you are at work)

I would feel the energy rather than think, hear or whatever the story. If I identified less with the thoughts that arise, there would be less fear.

Keep on reciting the heart sutra let it permeate your whole being and listen to what it has been teaching you these past 14 years. Do you believe the words you have been saying for the past 14 years?

I will do this, mind is distracted by strong sensations in the body which are painful. "no eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind"

There is body yes?

Nope, there is sensation, feeling, emotion. The energy is what mind labels achy body or parts of body, and mind labels it painful. Just staying with that and seeing that there is no separate self in that, only the sensations, the energy. Moving around, popping buzzing.

I had to cancel the group this evening, something I've never done before. Sorry I can't write more. This is my experience at the moment.

With love
SJ x

[Detox]

Hi Sj glad you are taking care of yourself. Feeling unwell is not great - and in the context of this inquiry of seeing that there is no separate self, you could ask what would it mean not to identify with feeling unwell? Are you aware of any stories?

Remember the Buddha said there was suffering - but he did not say there was no pain. Physical pain of the body is real. But you can experience pain and have no suffering. That was the great teaching.

What causes the suffering when we experience pain?

She sent an email apologising, again. Sadness.

You experienced sadness when the apology came - did you experience proliferation of thought. What did you make all of this mean. Can you see the suffering in all of this. Sadness is real - but this energy can arise and then cease - without being hooked by the proliferation of thought that causes us to suffer.

Yes thoughts do label the body -- but it is tangible to. You can touch what we label the body. The skin, the limbs.

But Is there an Sj? What is Sj? Where is Sj? Can you really point to what SJ is?

Take good care ---gently gently gently

with kindness

PS - I sensed something strong stir for you druing your reflections on Monday - sometimes that can make us groggy and unwell - hopefully it will arise and cease and not turn into anything quite major - glad you are resting

[Bowzie]

Hi Vimalasara

Still unwell, I left work at lunchtime today, again something I would not usually. The stories are probably rooted in a Protestant work ethic guilt if I'm not at work. What will others think?

, you could ask what would it mean not to identify with feeling unwell? Are you aware of any stories?

they were the stories I noticed, fear of getting in trouble, worry that I would be needed...but I didn't go with them, I stayed with the sensations and the pain, and just went.

What causes the suffering when we experience pain?

The storylines which are saying that things aren't supposed to be this way, shoulds etc and wishing it wasn't this way, aversion to whatever is happening now. Not massively though. My mind is still groggy, unclear and finds focussing difficult, I can build a story about this and about this being unlike 'me'. But without this attaching I'm free to just enjoy the opportunity this brings, like being at home more, resting.

"She sent an email apologising, again. Sadness." -

did you experience proliferation of thought. What did you make all of this mean. Can you see the suffering in all of this

.

Yup, I can see the suffering in all of this. I am noticing the patterns of stress for her in the hope I can be more prepared, but somehow that doesn't happen and I don't know, it hurts. I think i just try to understand. But may be i should give that up, cos im not going to ever understand. Its not ever goong to be 'fair'. Just be with the energy arsing from the situation. The thought was, she always apologises, but it doesn't change. That was the thought, not necessarily true.

But Is there an Sj? What is Sj? Where is Sj? Can you really point to what SJ is?

There is not, an idea, a dream, a string of thoughts, I cannot point to what SJ is. No SJ is present, or selfing thoughts, unless there is the perception that I am being attacked or critisised or whatever, then it's like amour is created, may be of thoughts, which gives this sense of I. But then, it's gone again, until the next time...

With love
SJ x

[Detox]

Please take the day off - stay with the direct experience of being unwell - allow yourself to do that.
Great you are seeing the stories more and more - and not cycling into them as much . This is all good.

Yup, I can see the suffering in all of this. I am noticing the patterns of stress for her in the hope I can be more prepared, but somehow that doesn't happen and I don't know, it hurts. I think i just try to understand. But may be i should give that up, cos im not going to ever understand. Its not ever goong to be 'fair'. Just be with the energy arsing from the situation. The thought was, she always apologises, but it doesn't change. That was the thought, not necessarily true.

But what is true is: that you can change. The apology can come - and you can receive the apology without any story - with out any proliferation of thought - with out the illusion of self getting in the way of the apology.

I cannot point to what SJ is. No SJ is present, or selfing thoughts, unless there is the perception that I am being attacked or critisised or whatever, then it's like amour is created, may be of thoughts, which gives this sense of I. But then, it's gone again, until the next time...

Please take your time to reflect on these questions - as you have a tendency to cycle in out of seeing and doubt. Be gentle - pause - open - relax - trust what emerges and listen deeply - please listen deeply.

So tell me -
What is being attacked?
What is being criticized?
Where is Sj when this is happening?
This Armour isn't this armour just the illusion of self? Just Sj getting in the way? Just Sj selfing?

Only you can walk through the gate - I can walk beside you daily - and I will for as long as you need me to - but I can't walk you through the gate. Trust that what you see is like the puncture in a bicycle tire. You see it - and then you can't find it. But you know the puncture is there. Because you have seen it. And when you blow it up you know it's there because it stays flat. And you want to find it so much - that you mark it with chalk so you don't loose it again. And you find it again. But then you get another puncture - and the process happens all over the again. But you trust the process - let go of the content - the narrative that you can't find it - you just let yourself go through the process of finding it even if it takes a while because you know it is there. Once you have glimpsed seeing the illusion of separate self - the seen is always there - yes we can loose sight of it- and we will loose it for a long while if we get caught in the content - the story - the narrative. Just surrender to the process - let go of thought - watch what the mind takes hold of. Please go back to the study of the heart sutra -

and I'm not sure you answered that question - if you did you can cut and paste it.

Do you believe every word of what the heart sutra is saying to you?
If you don't - what is it you don't believe?
And if you do - then what is stopping you walking through the gate?

with kindness Vimalasara

[Bowzie]

Hi Vimalasara

Please take the day off - stay with the direct experience of being unwell - allow yourself to do that.

I stayed in bed, in and out of sleep most of the day. Reflecting on the heart sutra and on your questions.

But what is true is: that you can change. The apology can come - and you can receive the apology without any story - with out any proliferation of thought - with out the illusion of self getting in the way of the apology.

What came to my mind was "in the seen only the seen" etc Akshobhyas mirror, reflecting only reality back. I tried to stay with direct experience and when my mind attached, I could see how ridiculous the story was. I could see that what I'm attached to is an idea and that this idea is just thoughts, it's my belief that's the problem. But there is really nothing there at all to believe in! There is nothing there, hours and hours today, I've been looking, saying 'just look' to myself, relaxing and opening. "holding to nothing whatever"

Please take your time to reflect on these questions - as you have a tendency to cycle in out of seeing and doubt.

I wondered if the doubt may have something to do with the view that this is a difficult thing, that to claim to have seen through the illusion of self is....I dunno something. "freed of delusive hindrance, rid of the fear bred by it" fear, we hold on to this mirage, this idea, out of fear.

Do you believe every word of what the heart sutra is saying to you?
If you don't - what is it you don't believe?

I do believe it, but it's not about what I believe, I want to see it as well. See and believe. And I do see (or do not see!) and I do believe. So what is stopping me? My doubt that I do see may be. That there is something more to see. I looked at this today. May be what is stopping me is still the belief of the thought that may be I haven't seen. Is that possible? But his doubt is only a thought i would say to myself. Time and time again today I was dropping the thoughts. To just stay with the experience. The time just went.

What is being attacked?
What is being criticized?

What is being attacked is this idea of a self that I cherish, this mirage that is not there, but I hold dear. That's what is being attacked and criticised. It's this complex web of thoughts and stuff which is ultimately not there!

Where is Sj when this is happening?
This Armour isn't this armour just the illusion of self? Just Sj getting in the way? Just Sj selfing?

Nowhere, there is the idea, the thoughts, the sensation, but no SJ. But then the idea of SJ gets more and more hurt with more and more thoughts, each one causing more pain when I believe it and mind gets ricocheted around all over the place.

Trust that what you see is like the puncture in a bicycle tire. You see it - and then you can't find it. But you know the puncture is there. Because you have seen it. And when you blow it up you know it's there because it stays flat. And you want to find it so much - that you mark it with chalk so you don't loose it again. And you find it again. But then you get another puncture - and the process happens all over the again. But you trust the process - let go of the content - the narrative that you can't find it - you just let yourself go through the process of finding it even if it takes a while because you know it is there. Once you have glimpsed seeing the illusion of separate self - the seen is always there - yes we can loose sight of it- and we will loose it for a long while if we get caught in the content - the story - the narrative. Just surrender to the process - let go of thought - watch what the mind takes hold of. Please go back to the study of the heart sutra -

I have been reading from the puja book today, going through it and looking for SJ in each place it lists. Haven't found anything yet, but as you say, I'll trust the process and keep looking.

As well as the heart sutra and the questions, I have been pondering this tyre analogy today. I did this exercise this morning where I drew my hand quickly, then I really looked at the deatil of my fingers etc, and drew the details of my hand and rather than the edges, the spaces in between. This linked up with this somehow in my mind, something about staying with the puncture, rather than the tyre. Staying with how things are, rather than the idea of how they are or should be. One is only an idea. I thought about the idea of father Christmas, i can really see how this is. Believing something that doesn't exist. I just layed in my bed and watched it all playing out, interspersed with lemsips and painful sensations in the body. Didn't go to the deep blue vastness place either, it was lighter somehow, and what came to my mind was you saying about the furniture being moved around or removed...there was a difference.

Staying home and being on retreat is great for this process!

Thanks again for all your help.

With love
SJ x

[Detox]

Sj well done for taking the day off and staying with your direct experience.

Yes it can be laughable when we become aware that we believe our thoughts, when we catch ourselves conjuring up stories, and realize we are trying to defend something that does not exist at all. And yes dear old Santa. remember the disappointment of learning that Santa Claus did not exist, but we didn't want to believe this. we wanted to carry on believing he did exist. Remember the pain and loss. but also remember the liberation of learning that nobody came down the chimney and it was in fact our parents or careers who bought all the gifts. This for many was the beginning of some children's depression, some child's search for meaning. similarly when we see that there is no separate self we can go into cycles of doubt, cycles of depression. doubt and a degree of depression can be normal, it's like the grieving process of loss. we can grieve the loss of something we have clung on for dear life, the loss of something that we have defended all our life only to find out that the self does not exist. But the wise grieve and move swiftly on.

What is there to claim. there is nothing to attain. attainment to is emptiness . when we ,lay claims we can be vulnerable to conceit. And of course there is more to see. This is entry level awakening and hopefully we continue to keep on waking up, continue to see more clearly. and as for doubt it is full of stories. Stories that keep you frightened. stories that cloud the mind. you have seen so what? be aware of what you make seeing through the illusion of self mean. as you say in the seen only the seen. nothing more.
yes doubt and indecision, an undermining hindrance. what would it mean not to identify with doubt?
if you didn't Identify with doubt what could emerge?
what is doubt protecting?
Are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?
When the “I” has been seen through, fully and completely, what's left?

hope you are feeling better another day off I hope?

With kindness Vimalasara

[Detox]

Oops forgot to say.. Great that the heart sutra is not just a doctrine that you believe in and glad you want to see it working in your life. As what is importnat is understanding it and living the teachings of the sutra more and more In,our lives.