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[pozablo]

Dear Nona,
You've certainly got my attention.
More work on Direct Experience to follow.
Also will redo the exercises, and respond to all your questions.
May not get all that done tomorrow, but will report nonetheless.
Love,
P.

[nonaparry]

Excellent.

[pozablo]

Hi again Nona,

Isn't it truer that the noise and the hearing are the same experience, and that only thought and language separate them into noise and hearing? Please check it!

=yes, finally I’m having some success with Direct Experiencing. But it feels so slow, and this seems very difficult right now. But clearly you are right, there are just sensations, qualia occurring in consciousness, what is represented in consciousness is all that I can ‘know’ of what is. But there is so much thinking getting in the way. Even though nobody is thinking those thoughts, my god they are intrusive and distracting.

Do you actually feel "cool air"? Or are you actually experiencing a difference of temperature that you label "cool air".
Do you actually feel skin from inside it? Or are you remembering having seen skin and assuming that the temperature difference you are experiencing is happening to or on skin?

=Yes, you are right. That thought/assumption is clearer now than ever, at least when I can purposefully and successfully focus on the direct experience.

Life doesn't change when it is seen that unicorns and Santa don't exist. It won't change when you see clearly that self doesn't exist as a separate entity, either. Life will happen just the same; only you will know with complete certainty that "self" is a mental construct made up of thoughts and language that has no control over anything in your experience.

=I guess I really don’t know with complete certainty what I am certain must be true. The difference is where I’m still having trouble.

It's just that SEEing through the illusion, rather than simply believing there's an illusion, happens in direct experience, not in thought, so I keep directing you to look at your experience, not your thinking.

=And I appreciate that. Please don’t give up on me!!

If you wanted to SEE the Eiffel Tower with the eyes in your head, I would direct you to Paris, not to a picture-postcard stand. Same here. If you want to SEE through the illusion that you are or have a separate self that has some control over an individual slice of Life, you must go to direct experience, for that is where this can be SEEN.

=Yes, working on that. So challenging.

Again, "Why would a sixty-something-year-long habit labelled "blaming" stop just because you now have awareness that you have been mistaken all this time in believing you are somehow separate from Life happening?"

=Understood, thank you.

Please write out exactly what you want.

=I want a toy. But to have and enjoy the toy as much here as I have in the past in the US involves risk of unfun complications and financial entanglement and loss. But my time left in life to enjoy this toy is rapidly shrinking. And my wife and I differ greatly on our assessment of the risks.

"It still felt like..." Where exactly is a presumption felt? Can you find the feeling of a presumption? Anywhere?

=Right, that’s a label. But how can I describe experience to you without using such labels? That’s another place where I really need help.

Do try not to Think this all through so much. It only makes thought tangles that prevent you from experiencing directly the fact of the matter: "I" is a label. There is no "I" outside of thought/language.
No hypothetical I can ever assist you in directly experiencing the fact of the non-existence of an actual entity "I". ….There is no maintenance of understanding of no self required when it has been directly experienced as an illusion. This is why I keep pointing you to direct experience and away from Thinking About it. …You don't even have to understand how gravity works to experience it directly. Same with seeing through the illusion of self… I'm knocking myself out Pointing you to SEE it, to experience it directly, not to Think About it!!!

= Thanks. Sometimes I know that I know and see it, and that is just so solid and wonderful. Other times I still ‘think’ that I ‘know’ and ‘see’ it but thoughts and concerns seem too distracting for that to be true. And you and all say that (like Santy or Unicorns) once seen as illusion, it cannot be unseen. I am trusting that continuing to develop Direct Experiencing is the key, but thinking is just such a strong habit with me.

What direct experience of yesterday obscures the fact that Life is just happening without any direction from "you"?

=A few days ago had clear realizations that arose from experience that "Being afraid to lose the self is like the convict who is afraid to leave prison because it's the only life he's ever known" and "The self that one truly is is so much greater and wonderful than the dinky little decision-maker we think we are". But now the current experiencing is so much different from the experiencing that gave rise to those. Thoughts and concerns just seem so much like same-old-same-old, and give rise to concerns “then how can my seeing be real?”

Thank you again.

Love,
P.

[pozablo]

Thoughts haven't been the problem.
Desire has been the problem.
Desire to control things to get what I fantasize will bring so much more pleasure to my life.
Maybe that Buddha guy was right.

[nonaparry]

Dearest Pablo,

I am so delighted with your posts.

Thoughts haven't been the problem.
Desire has been the problem.

Desire is a bunch of thoughts. Really. It's thoughts about an imaginary future (imaginary because the only time we ever experience is NOW) which will be different from the way things are NOW, and which you have judged to be "better" than NOW.

Desire to control things to get what I fantasize will bring so much more pleasure to my life.

Yep. And notice, whenever you desire something, either you receive it or you don't; you are not actually in control of that. If you were, you would always receive what you think you want.
What else are you not in control of?

finally I’m having some success with Direct Experiencing. But it feels so slow, and this seems very difficult right now.

Yes. We clever mental types are so used to flying through new understandings, that moving out of our intellectual comfort zone can feel very sluggish. Persist! Direct Experiencing is always always happening; we just obscure it with our web of thoughts About what's going on. But what's happening goes on even without our thoughts about it.
This is KEY. What's going on, Life happening, is always going on. But thoughts about it change, alter direction, even cease.

But there is so much thinking getting in the way. Even though nobody is thinking those thoughts, my god they are intrusive and distracting.

Yes. The purpose of the exercises I set you is to have you experience non-thinking. The more you explore the closed-eyes world of non-reliance on memory, the better prepared you will be to experience the fact of no self.
Self is a bunch of thoughts, a label. It doesn't show up in Direct Experience because it is only a thought.

That thought/assumption is clearer now than ever, at least when I can purposefully and successfully focus on the direct experience.

The distinction between thought and physical reality becomes ever clearer with practice. We knew the difference as small children: we wanted the larger coin, bigger in physical reality, even though we were told that the smaller coin had a greater value. That value was only in thought; the larger size was physical reality.

I guess I really don’t know with complete certainty what I am certain must be true. The difference is where I’m still having trouble.

Yes. This is the mental understanding. When you perceive directly that self/I is non-existent in your direct experience and when you see for yourself how thought creates self/I out of more assumptions entirely based on language, you will no longer have trouble with this.

I appreciate that. Please don’t give up on me!!

I won't give up as long as you are willing to LOOK instead of Think. ;-)

If you want to SEE through the illusion that you are or have a separate self that has some control over an individual slice of Life, you must go to direct experience, for that is where this can be SEEN.

=Yes, working on that. So challenging.

Challenging to us mental types, because we feel secure in the realm of thought. Moving outside of thought can bring strong fears. If you notice any fear arriving, please bring it up.

I want a toy. But to have and enjoy the toy as much here as I have in the past in the US involves risk of unfun complications and financial entanglement and loss. But my time left in life to enjoy this toy is rapidly shrinking.

All thoughts.
The desire, the belief that enjoyment depends on circumstances, the belief in risks, and especially the belief in limited time "left in life" are all simply thoughts. They are not even thoughts about the present! They are thoughts about some imaginary future. We imagine what life would be like with the toy, and compare it to life without the toy, judging the former to be "better". And where is this all occurring? In thought, in the present moment NOW. In your direct experience there is no time and no place other than NOW. Check it!

"It still felt like..." Where exactly is a presumption felt? Can you find the feeling of a presumption? Anywhere?

=Right, that’s a label. But how can I describe experience to you without using such labels? That’s another place where I really need help.

We use labels to communicate. Language is all labels, so it's not possible to describe direct experience to someone else without labels.
What I objected to was "it felt like...", using a metaphor about your experience instead of a description of an actual feeling. For example, "there was a sensation of sharp pricking" is a description of my actual feeling of acupuncture needles being inserted. A metaphor would be "it felt like I was a pin-holder." The metaphor "like I was a pin-holder" is not direct experience; it is a thought about experience.

Sometimes I know that I know and see it, and that is just so solid and wonderful. Other times I still ‘think’ that I ‘know’ and ‘see’ it but thoughts and concerns seem too distracting for that to be true.

Yes. This is the difference between believing/thinking there is no self, and SEEing it directly. I ask you to LOOK, to observe with your direct experience, not THINK. Until you actually LOOK, you will not SEE.

I am trusting that continuing to develop Direct Experiencing is the key, but thinking is just such a strong habit with me.

Actually LOOKing is the key, but you can't LOOK with thought. So developing DE is the key to being able to step outside of thinking and simply observe what is factual here and now: there is no self, no separate entity "I", in reality.
The habit of thinking is only a habit, and thanks to brain plasticity, can be replaced. Thinking will still happen, of course; but the ability to shift focus to direct experience will strengthen with practice.

=A few days ago had clear realizations that arose from experience that "Being afraid to lose the self is like the convict who is afraid to leave prison because it's the only life he's ever known" and "The self that one truly is is so much greater and wonderful than the dinky little decision-maker we think we are". But now the current experiencing is so much different from the experiencing that gave rise to those. Thoughts and concerns just seem so much like same-old-same-old, and give rise to concerns “then how can my seeing be real?”

"Clear realizations" occur in Thought; thoughts change, drift away, doubt comes in, thoughts are unreliable. When you SEE the truth in your direct experience that there is no self to lose, that there is no such thing at all as a "self that one truly is", then any thoughts that arrive concerning these facts are seen as merely mind-weather. Thoughts come and go; we have no control over them. But we can see clearly that THINKING something doesn't make it Reality.

THINK of a pink elephant. Go on, do it.
Is that image of a pink elephant a REAL elephant? Does the thought about a pink elephant correspond with an entity "pink elephant" in reality? Or is it just a thought?
When it is SEEn that self/I is a thought with no corresponding entity in reality, all thoughts ABOUT self/i are experienced as noise.

Thoughts and concerns just seem so much like same-old-same-old, and give rise to concerns “then how can my seeing be real?”

Thoughts and concerns are mind-weather. They have no impact on reality, only on Thoughts ABOUT reality. Check it!

love
Nona

[pozablo]

Nona, thank you for your consistency and generosity. Who am I thanking? That's still a little wierd!
Still focusing on DE, maybe it's improving a bit. Then the thought arises, "how to explain to Nona what the experience is without using metaphors or analogies? What words can describe the experience of that which previously was simply taken for granted as "me"? But those of course are just thoughts which occur at the time, obscuring DE. DE is a challenge, but am trying. Tomorrow have a couple hour long drives, is there anything I should especially be working on in the car?
More to come.
Appreciatively,
P.

[nonaparry]

Dearest Pablo,

the thought arises, "how to explain to Nona what the experience is without using metaphors or analogies? What words can describe the experience of that which previously was simply taken for granted as "me"?

VERBs. What is happening is always a verb.
Breathing, prickling, warming, pressing, drinking, typing, seeing, walking, washing...
Go back to the exercise in which you type what is happening, and then do it again without using the words I or me. VERBing is what's happening. Invariably. Check it!!

Tomorrow have a couple hour long drives, is there anything I should especially be working on in the car?

Notice whether an I is necessary to drive the car. Does an I push the body out of its way so it can drive? Does an I get out a map or set a GPS? Does an I decide to take the highway or back roads? Check check check whether there is an I, in actual experience, that does any of this. Or does driving simply happen, including map-finding, direction-finding, highway or backroads choosing? Check if there is an entity "I" anywhere in your direct experience.

Notice that Life simply happens, VERBing occurs, and then mind attaches an "I did it". If you pay close attention to the shift in focus from DE to thinking, you can notice this.
Experience happens —> mind adds "I"
See if you can catch this happening!

love
Nona

[pozablo]

Just discovered my recent posts haven't posted, dky.
Late now, will post tomorrow.
P.

[pozablo]

Nona, you are such a dear!

Have been having some internet problems here, but really not much to post anyway.
Yesterday driving, no Pablo there. That’s clear. Like you say, it’s only in retrospect that thoughts get assigned a “me” quality. And that is thought too.

But, especially toward the end of the day, felt so uncomfortably locked up in thoughts and in trying (to LOOK, to have DE). Like a prisoner who is out of the cell, but still behind the gate and knows the gate is unlocked but just can’t find the way out to freedom. Like the gate is created by thinking and even by trying. Sometimes thoughts are seen as weather, but then there arises an automatic thinking about the weather. With brief experiences of blue sky through which thoughts and birds and everything else just drifts through.

Have been focusing on your counsels re

The more you explore the closed-eyes world of non-reliance on memory, the better prepared you will be to experience the fact of no self…..What is challenging is to resist the habit of allowing focus to wander off into thought. And the more you are able to stay focused on direct experience, the more you will experience peace.

You’ll get a kick out of this—just realized late yesterday that during times of trying DE and other exercises, I've also been simultaneously equally occupied with describing the experience to you. As if the assignment is to figure out how to describe it rather than experience and later describe.

DE is difficult for me. A bit ADD anyway, and as you know the ‘figuring out’ is such a strong habit. So easy to get lost in thinking.

Yep, all verbs. From mountains to clouds to illusions of self, all events. Not things.

Gratefully Optimistic,
P.

[nonaparry]

Dear Pablo,

just realized late yesterday that during times of trying DE and other exercises, I've also been simultaneously equally occupied with describing the experience to you. As if the assignment is to figure out how to describe it rather than experience and later describe.

Hilarious!!! And believe me, I get it. I spent 58 years lost-in-thought. Darned if I know what happened to get me to LOOK instead of THINK.

it’s only in retrospect that thoughts get assigned a “me” quality. And that is thought too.

YES!!!
Retrospect is our Story of what happened. It is smooth and apparently seamless, completely unlike Direct Experience which is full of holes and bumpy as heck!
The more you can distinguish between the actual sensations and the Story that mind tells after the event (even if only nanoseconds later), the better you will observe "self" being created. Self is the "me" that gets assigned to sensation after the fact. It's a thought, a label. And that is all it is. Check it.

DE is difficult for me. A bit ADD anyway, and as you know the ‘figuring out’ is such a strong habit. So easy to get lost in thinking.

That's a Story, Pablo. Whenever you stop thinking for a moment, ALL there is is direct experience. It's going on ALL the time, whether you are aware of it or not! You're just focused on your thinking and so don't notice it. You have no trouble at all with DE; it's your natural state! It's shifting focus away from your thoughts that you have difficulty with. And that will come with practice.

especially toward the end of the day, felt so uncomfortably locked up in thoughts and in trying (to LOOK, to have DE)

You don't have to try to have DE; it's happening all the time! Just FOCUS on what is happening. What is happening NOW? Is sitting happening? Is reading happening? Is typing happening? What else is happening? Breathing is happening; seeing is happening (unless you are sitting here with eyes closed). DE is What Is Happening NOW.

love
Nona

[pozablo]

The more you can distinguish between the actual sensations and the Story that mind tells after the event (even if only nanoseconds later), the better you will observe "self" being created....Self is the "me" that gets assigned to sensation after the fact. It's a thought, a label. And that is all it is. Check it.

-Yep, that’s quite clear when in observing mode. Otherwise it’s just happening, with that old familiar feel, but as soon as it’s looked at it’s clearly just clouds and pimples. I think it's the effort, the intention to look/observe/experience that now still "feels" like self and needs looking at. Or...no?

You have no trouble at all with DE; it's your natural state! It's shifting focus away from your thoughts that you have difficulty with. And that will come with practice.

-THAT’S good news!!

Just FOCUS on what is happening. What is happening NOW? Is sitting happening? Is reading happening? Is typing happening? What else is happening? Breathing is happening; seeing is happening (unless you are sitting here with eyes closed). DE is What Is Happening NOW

.
-Roger, Wilco!

May all beings be awakened,
P.

[pozablo]

All good in this moment, but fear to verbalize much :)
More Soon,
Love P.

[nonaparry]

Dear Pablo,

I think it's the effort, the intention to look/observe/experience that now still "feels" like self and needs looking at.

Is intention/observation/experience an entity "self"?? At all?
Is there an actual self? or only a story of "I" that is believed?"

All good in this moment, but fear to verbalize much :)

Is there something that is not good in any moment except for our thoughts about it? Check it! An event occurs; we notice a sensation; we judge the sensation—we like it or don't; then we label the sensation—good or bad. But the event is simply occurring; we are simply noticing a plain vanilla sensation; then we judge it and find it somehow lacking and then BOOM! it's not good. All done by thought.

What is feared in terms of verbalizing? You cannot say/write something "wrong"; it's not possible.

love
Nona

[pozablo]

Where’s Pablo? There he is. Oh wait, that’s just a thought. Look, there’s another one.
Effort? Well son-of-a-gun, that’s just something else that happens.
Ha Ha. Nobody’s doing anything! Ain’t that a gas!!

Was so easy to see all “that” could be without a Big God directing traffic.
Why was it so hard to see there’s no little god “in here” either?

Thank you for your persistence,
Love,
P.

[nonaparry]

Dearest Pablo,

Ha Ha. Nobody’s doing anything! Ain’t that a gas!!

Have you SEEN it? In your direct experience? Have you SEEN through the illusion that there is a separate self, at all??
No doubts?

love
Nona