Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

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nonaparry
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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby nonaparry » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:14 am

Hi Martin!
If that's OK I'd like to stick with the body check exercise for a while
That's fine, and please also do the writing exercise which I've repeated below. I want you especially to LOOK for an entity "I" when you do these exercises.
So far we have seen "the implication of I", "the sense of I", "the feeling of I", but never even once has an entity "I" been located in reality.
What do we call something that is implied, sensed, felt, but never ever even once found in reality?

And keep LOOKing for an entity "I"! Don't leave a single stone unturned!
First write what you are experiencing right now using words I and me. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here and now.
Like this—
I am lying in bed. I am hearing the rain, I am typing these words...
Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body; are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?
Then for next 10 minutes write without the words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:
Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.
Again watch what is happening in the body.
Now compare the two ways to label experience — is one truer than the other? If so, which one? What is here now without labels? Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Blacklight
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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby Blacklight » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:46 pm

Hi Nona,

I am starting the writing exercise. I am sitting on the sofa. I am feeling that my back is warm and touching the backrest. I am feeling my buttocks on the pillow. I am feeling my fingers on the keyboard. I am seeing the screen of my laptop. I am thinking "the light looks slightly blue". I am feeling my knees and toes. I am feeling that my feet are warm. I am thinking "I haven't looked at the clock to know when ten minutes are over". I am looking at the laptop's clock. I am seeing the numbers. I am seeing the sun from the background picture of the web page. I am seeing a mental image of the sun. I am feeling comfortable. I am feeling my fingers touching the keyboard. I am watching my fingers type all by themselves. I am feeling my lips prickle. I am looking up the word "prickle". I am seeing a mental image of lips. I am hearing birds sing. I am hearing traffic noise. I am seeing mental pictures of cars driving on the highway. I am hearing noise. I am seeing a mental picture of my girlfriend cleaning her room. I am hearing birds sings. I am looking at the laptop's clock. I am hearing a click. I am seeing that the light of the aquarium has turned off. I am thinking "I'm not fast enought at typing to write down all that I'm perceiving". I am hearing half-finished spoken thoughts. I am feeling my toes rubbing on my calves. I am looking at a foto my girl friend just brought me. I am smiling. I am feeling the body pulsating with the heart beat. I am looking at the clock. I am thinking "Ten minutes are over."

Reading the instructions. Thinking "I haven't paid attention to whether the body was tightening or relaxing". Feeling the body tightening. Feeling the fingers on the keyboard. Feeling tightening in the belly and chest region. Thinking half finished thoughts. Feeling pressure at the teeth. Seeing a mental image of teeth clenched. Feeling fingers on the keyboard. Looking at the clock. Feeling fingers on the keyboard. Correcting typo. Smiling slightly. Relaxing a little. Feeling the body pulsating. Hearing sound of a car. Seeing mental image of a car driving fast. Thinking "From an image, how do I know the car is fast?". Reading instructions again. Feeling fast and fine vibrations in the face and the upper chest. Waiting for next thought. Feeling fingers on the keyboard. Hearing half finished spoken thoughts. Waiting for impulse to write something. Watching fingers type by themselves. Hearing paper swishing. Seeing a mental image of my girl friend sorting her paper stuff. Seeing my girlfriend enter the room. Listening to my girlfriend. Thinking "do the words 'my girlfriend' imply or consolidate an I?" Hearing birds sing. Looking out of the window. Seeing towers of clouds and blue sky in between. Relaxing. Hearing spoken thought "Watching my fingers type". Watching my fingers type "Watching my fingers type." Smiling. Thinking "How recursive". Smiling. Looking at the clock. Thinking "ten minutes are over".

So one difference between the two parts of the exercise is that in the first part there seemed to be a mental flickering especially when the word I or me was used. The body was tight (it had been before already) and remained tight while writing.
In the second part at the beginning there was a tightening because I noticed that I had read the instructions only up to "Do it for 10 minutes" and then started without reading the rest of the line. But this tightness fell away relatively fast and after that the body became more relaxed. The 'resolution' of awareness seemed to be higher as well, there was awareness of finer and quicker sensations.
When rereading the two parts, the first one brings up mental images of the situation when writing which are then quickly replaced with this mental flickering and a slight feeling of confusion. The second one brings up just the mental images without flickering or a feeling of confusion.
There is confusion with respect to which one is truer, because at the moment the word "true" doesn't bring up any clear thoughts of what truth is. The second part is simpler, less "mental" (i.e. it doesn't trigger as many thoughts).

Before starting to answer to your post I was sitting for an hour doing the body check exercise. Again there were only few occasions where bodily sensations were not immediately followed by mental images. But in some cases there was a clearer distinction between those two and in those situations it was relatively clear that it would be hard or impossible to estimate any distances or volumes. There is also no distinction between inside and outside. This distinction seems to be made by the mental image of the body.
I was also looking for an I, but didn't see one (strange to start that sentence with one ;)
There were bodily sensations, mental images of the body, there was hearing and a lot of thoughts. The impression of an I seems to arise when those dimensions aren't seen clearly and distinctly. For example when bodily sensations and mental images of the body are not distinguished there is a "solidity" and familiarity that creates a feeling of "unchangingness". The more dimensions are entangled, the more solid everything seems to be.

Watching with interest :)
Martin

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nonaparry
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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby nonaparry » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:27 am

Hi Martin,
I was also looking for an I, but didn't see one
Keep looking. If there is a such thing as an entity "I" in reality, you should be able to find it. You find a computer, a chair, the body; these are entities in reality.
There were bodily sensations, mental images of the body, there was hearing and a lot of thoughts.
Good reporting of direct experience.

Read over your writing with and without "I"; did you notice that Life is just happening, events keep occurring, even when "I" is not described as doing anything?
Seeing, feeling, hearing all occur without any need for an "I" to show up and do them.
Is there anything in your direct experience that requires an "I" to do it or be it? Check carefully!

love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby Blacklight » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:26 pm

Hi Nona,

just a short post today. I've been turning stones looking for an I. What was seen was a body, mental images of the body, thoughts (that sometimes lead to a loss of awareness), hearing and seeing. Some friends came around and we made music together. In some occassions there was awareness of the fingers playing guitar by themselves and the voice singing by itself. There was also less self-blaming than usual for not remembering the lyrics or hitting a wrong note. In the morning I was playing in a chess tournament and in some occasions there was a relaxed watching of the upcoming fear and anxiety, in other occasions awareness was low and fear felt dense.
Sometimes there is also aversion against looking that can turn attention towards distractions (work, householding, ...) when not noticed clearly...

One question regarding the search for an 'I' entity: I am to look for an entity that is capable of controlling the body and thoughts, right?
Because there clearly is a body that could be called 'I' and the content of thoughts and memories that arise are probably also quite specific to 'me'.

Thanks for your patience!
Martin

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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby nonaparry » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:36 pm

Hi Martin!
What was seen was a body, mental images of the body, thoughts (that sometimes lead to a loss of awareness), hearing and seeing. Some friends came around and we made music together. In some occassions there was awareness of the fingers playing guitar by themselves and the voice singing by itself.
Good work!!
You found a body, images, thoughts, music and singing, but did you find an "I", a "self" or a "me"? Keep LOOKing!
Sometimes there is also aversion against looking that can turn attention towards distractions
Mind will conjure up fear or distractions if it thinks these are necessary to prevent you from really LOOKing at whether there is an "I" in reality. But mind needn't be distressed; it has survived all these years of your lifetime despite the fact that there has never been an "I" except as a thought, a label, a function of language.
One question regarding the search for an 'I' entity: I am to look for an entity that is capable of controlling the body and thoughts, right?
You are to look everywhere for the entity that you understand to be "I", "me", "self".
When I write these labels, what do you understand them to refer to? That is what you are looking for.
Many people use the label I to refer to "a person's essential being that distinguishes them from others." If what you have understood as the entity referred to by "I/me/self" is different from this, then whatever that is is what you must look for.
Because there clearly is a body that could be called 'I' and the content of thoughts and memories that arise are probably also quite specific to 'me'.
The body could be called "I", but is body really what you mean when you say "I"? Would you say, "in the morning body was playing in a chess tournament..."? Would you say, "body is to look for an entity that is capable of controlling..."? Or does "I" refer to something other than body?
Which part of body contains this I? The head? The heart? All the cells? When you sustain a bodily injury, is it the I that is hurt? Check it!

Does body control anything in reality? If so, then what...and how? In your Direct Experience?

love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby Blacklight » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:12 pm

Hi Nona,
You are to look everywhere for the entity that you understand to be "I", "me", "self".
When I write these labels, what do you understand them to refer to? That is what you are looking for.
Many people use the label I to refer to "a person's essential being that distinguishes them from others." If what you have understood as the entity referred to by "I/me/self" is different from this, then whatever that is is what you must look for.
Today meditated for quite a while on the train and did the body size check exercise. Concentration was quite low (there was fatigue due to getting up earlier than usual) so the perception of the body was not very clear. When leaving the train however, awareness of the auto-pilot was relatively good for a while.
After work I sat on a river bank and looked for an I. Body sensations + mental images of the body keep on coming up and create a feeling of solidity. Sometimes with applied energy I can distinguish between sensation and image which takes away solidity, but this somehow feels artificial and forceful. On the other hand I can watch sensation + image and see how this has a I-ish feeling to it. Is there a preference towards one or the other?
The body could be called "I", but is body really what you mean when you say "I"? Would you say, "in the morning body was playing in a chess tournament..."? Would you say, "body is to look for an entity that is capable of controlling..."? Or does "I" refer to something other than body?
Which part of body contains this I? The head? The heart? All the cells? When you sustain a bodily injury, is it the I that is hurt? Check it!

Does body control anything in reality? If so, then what...and how? In your Direct Experience?
Hmm, the answer coming up in thoughts is that the body controls at least the low level stuff like heart beat, digestion, immune system. But you asked for direct experience: In D.E. the notion of control doesn't make sense. Control is a thought of moving things a different way than they would move on their own. In D.E. everything just happens, without thought there is no "different way" than the way it's just happening. So no, in direct experience without thought the concept control does not exist.
Hmmmmm...

Martin

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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby nonaparry » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:28 pm

Dear Martin,
Body sensations + mental images of the body keep on coming up and create a feeling of solidity.
What is the problem with a feeling of solidity of a body? Certainly bodies feel pretty solid! Is the sensation an "I"? Is the mental image an "I"? Is a feeling of solidity an "I"? Did you actually SEE an I on the river bank? With the eyes in the head?

If you choose, you can find innumerable examples of sensation + image that you might then call "an I-ish feeling." And what exactly does "an I-ish feeling" mean? Does a sensation + image prove an entity in reality?
Do this little exercise:
Close your eyes and imagine you are holding a large watermelon in both your hands. Imagine it so vividly that you feel its weight, shape, temperature, the texture of the skin; smell its scent; hear the hollow sound when you knock on it. Hold it there, sensing it vividly.
Got it?
Now open your eyes.
What happened to the melon? How about the sensation + image that was so believable?
In D.E. the notion of control doesn't make sense. Control is a thought of moving things a different way than they would move on their own. In D.E. everything just happens, without thought there is no "different way" than the way it's just happening. So no, in direct experience without thought the concept control does not exist.
YES. Very good noticing!!! Mmmmmm indeed!!
And in direct experience, have you come across the elusive "I"? Anywhere?

Keep LOOKing.
love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby Blacklight » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:40 am

Hi Nona,

this morning I was out for a run and on the way back I sat on the river side looking for an I. After a while the question "who or what is not enlightened" came up, probably because I read it somewhere. Concentration stayed with this question for a while and I couldn't find anything in direct experience that is capable of not being enlightened.
Tonight I sat with a friend and looked for the self again, but there was a lot of tiredness and it was hard even to do the body exercise without drifting off or falling half asleep.
What is the problem with a feeling of solidity of a body? Certainly bodies feel pretty solid! Is the sensation an "I"? Is the mental image an "I"? Is a feeling of solidity an "I"? Did you actually SEE an I on the river bank? With the eyes in the head?

If you choose, you can find innumerable examples of sensation + image that you might then call "an I-ish feeling." And what exactly does "an I-ish feeling" mean? Does a sensation + image prove an entity in reality?
Neither sensations nor mental images are an 'I'. Actually there just was a train of thought about the consequences of this statement, but it suddenly came to a dead stop and won't come up again. Strange...
D.E.: Raising eyebrows, thoughts jumping, slight choking, fingers resting, thinking 'I can't find an I', eyelids sinking, skin in the face prickling, lips prickling, belly contracting and expanding slowly, fingers typing by themselves, half-finished spoken thoughts, mental image of river bank, shaking from cold, skin on the arms prickling, thinking "is an I necessary for all this?", itching on the head, mental image of a water melon, half-finished spoken thought, chest pulsating with the heart beat, thinking "is reflection possible while watching direct experience?", thinking "thoughts falling away relatively quickly."
Do this little exercise:
Close your eyes and imagine you are holding a large watermelon in both your hands. Imagine it so vividly that you feel its weight, shape, temperature, the texture of the skin; smell its scent; hear the hollow sound when you knock on it. Hold it there, sensing it vividly.
Got it?
Now open your eyes.
What happened to the melon? How about the sensation + image that was so believable?
I did the exercise with the watermelon. The watermelon didn't become so clear that it could have been taken for real. On the other hand the mental images of the body are not much clearer, just more familiar. After opening the eyes, a few mental images of the watermelon came up but they fell away quite fast. The melon itself was never real, the thougts had a certain real feeling to them. I am really wondering if every thought is automatically "believed" to a certain extent. Or more the other way round, believing is just recurring thoughts.
And in direct experience, have you come across the elusive "I"? Anywhere?
No, there was no observation of any entity that could be called 'I'. How often does this have to be seen until it finally sticks??

Weariness
Martin

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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby nonaparry » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:51 pm

Dearest Martin,

You are doing so well!!
Neither sensations nor mental images are an 'I'.
Excellent!! So where/what is this "I"??? Can you locate/identify it at all?
D.E.: Raising eyebrows, thoughts jumping, slight choking, fingers resting, thinking 'I can't find an I', eyelids sinking, skin in the face prickling, lips prickling, belly contracting and expanding slowly, fingers typing by themselves, half-finished spoken thoughts, mental image of river bank, shaking from cold, skin on the arms prickling, thinking "is an I necessary for all this?", itching on the head, mental image of a water melon, half-finished spoken thought, chest pulsating with the heart beat, thinking "is reflection possible while watching direct experience?", thinking "thoughts falling away relatively quickly."
Yep! Good D.E.! And did you find an "I, self, or me" anywhere at all in direct experience?
The watermelon didn't become so clear that it could have been taken for real. On the other hand the mental images of the body are not much clearer, just more familiar.
Good noticing!!
The melon itself was never real, the thoughts had a certain real feeling to them.
Exactly. But they weren't real, they were thoughts.
Same as thoughts about "I, self, me". All with a certain real feeling, none of them real. They are only thoughts. Check it!
I am really wondering if every thought is automatically "believed" to a certain extent. Or more the other way round, believing is just recurring thoughts.
Some of us believe our thoughts; others of us don't. Any belief can be inquired into: Is it true? What is our evidence that it is true? Is our evidence more than just another thought? <—This is key!

As for belief being recurring thoughts, which comes first, the belief or the recurring? Can we separate them? Should we even try?
No, there was no observation of any entity that could be called 'I'. How often does this have to be seen until it finally sticks??
When you become utterly thoroughly convinced that you will never observe an "I" in the wild, you may actually LOOK at how your thoughts create the illusion of "I". When you SEE how mind invents an "I" out of smoke and mirrors, this will never leave you. Even if for a moment you confused Life living itself through a Martin as a "you", it would take only a second to see that this is a lie; there is no "you" in reality that is more than a label, more than a thought.

love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: AW: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby Blacklight » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:08 pm

Hi Nona,

just a short message today as it's my girlfriend's birthday. I did the watermelon exercise on the train and after that there were some minutes where it was relatively clear that there is thought and there is the content of thought. The first exists in reality, the latter does not. However this doesn't stop the mind from creating more thoughts...
For walking there hasn't been an attachment of an I today, it seems that for walking the auto pilot has been seen too often :-)

Good Night and thanks for your encouraging words!
Martin

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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby nonaparry » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:49 pm

Hi Martin,
there is thought and there is the content of thought. The first exists in reality, the latter does not. However this doesn't stop the mind from creating more thoughts...
Really good work!! And no, mind never ceases and thoughts keep arising. But now we check to see if their content is real.
Thoughts are mind-weather; they come, they stay, they depart. Nothing changes because of their arrival or departure.
For walking there hasn't been an attachment of an I today, it seems that for walking the auto pilot has been seen too often :-)
Is there a separate auto-pilot? Or is there just Life happening?

Is there an actual self at all? or only a story of an I that is believed?

love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby Blacklight » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:50 am

Hi Nona,
Really good work!! And no, mind never ceases and thoughts keep arising. But now we check to see if their content is real.
Thoughts are mind-weather; they come, they stay, they depart. Nothing changes because of their arrival or departure.
I was just sitting and trying to distinguish between thought and its content, but awareness was relatively low and in most cases the content of thought had this "real" feeling again. I also did the watermelon exercise again and it seems to create a subtle change in perception everytime I do it although I can't describe just what it is...
Is there a separate auto-pilot? Or is there just Life happening?
When for a short moment there is clear awareness then the actual experience takes up so much "space", so much of the attention that there is no room for a thought of an auto-pilot. Half-finished thoughts about attention being a concept as well and "me" not being able to really answer your question. Fingers sliding over the keyboard, feeling touching, looking for a separate auto-pilot. Thinking "too many thoughts to give a clear answer". Typing happening automatically, triggered by a spoken thought. Seeing, thinking "sight is very clear like in HD format", thoughts blurring actual sight like a nebula.
Is there an actual self at all? or only a story of an I that is believed?
Feeling confusion, slight headache. Half-finished thoughts rushing through, "I'm sorry, but I can't answer that question", There has been no observation of an entity I, but there is also no clear perception of there not being an I. Spoken thoughts stopping for brief moments leaving "chaotic" background noise and echoes of the last spoken thought then come back again. Fingers resting, pressure in finger tips, lips , seeing that there are unread mails, visual thought of email client, spoken thought "let's just check quickly".
Sorry, but I can't answer that question yet...

Feeling confusion
Martin

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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby nonaparry » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:02 am

Hi Martin,
Is there an actual self at all? or only a story of an I that is believed?
Feeling confusion, slight headache. Half-finished thoughts rushing through, "I'm sorry, but I can't answer that question",
It's true that "I" cannot answer that question; there is no I that is not a thought, a label. Mind would have you believe there is an actual entity "I" that is living your life; it believes that without an "I" to run your life, that your life would fall apart.
But there isn't any actual entity "I", and Life has been living itself with and through the body of Martin for all the years of his life. There has never been an "I" directing or controlling any part of Martin's life, and yet, contrary to Mind's dire predictions, Martin has lived just fine thus far without one.
There has been no observation of an entity I, but there is also no clear perception of there not being an I.
Put something on the desk or computer in front of you and look at it. Now remove it to somewhere out of sight and look in the place where it was. Can you see the absence of the object? The absence of something cannot be seen directly. Check it!

Do this exercise, please.
As you go about your day, notice how the story of "I" gets created, moment by moment. An event happens, for example, the coffee in the machine finishes brewing, a cup gets warmed, and hot coffee is poured into the cup. Mind announces "I did it. I ground the beans, I filled the machine, I pressed the buttons, I warmed a cup, I poured the coffee."
Mmmmm, first sip of the fresh brew. Mind announces "I tasted that."
Cup is carried out to the desk, to its home next to the computer. Mind says "I carried that; I put that there."
But DID "I" do any of that at all? Check it!! Does an "I" come dashing in to do the grinding, the pouring, the carrying?? Or do these events happen as part of the morning, without a separate Grind-er, Button-push-er, Cup-fill-er, Carry-er, Sip-er at all? Isn't the morning routine just another example of Life living itself?
I was just sitting and trying to distinguish between thought and its content...the content of thought had this "real" feeling again.
Sweetheart, the part of a thought that we sense is its arrival; that is all. We have a sense that a thought has arrived, and we say "I'm thinking".
Now Think of a cup.
I happen to have a thermos mug right here, so I will Think of it. Shutting the eyes, I develop a picture in my mind of this cup: it is silver at the bottom and black at the top, it has a black plastic handle that attaches to the cup only at the top, it has lid with a hole in it for sipping. I have this picture very clearly in my mind's eye. It does not feel like anything at all: it is a picture in my imagination. I cannot sip from the picture; the picture cannot be filled with coffee. It is a picture. When I open my eyes I see that the picture I had in mind is very similar to the object on my desk, but not the same: the object on my desk has physicality that the picture didn't have. I can sip from the object on my desk, but not from the picture in my mind.
When I Think of the cup, I get a sensation that I label "thinking". I do not get a sensation I label "cup"; the label "cup" always refers to an object, not a sensation, even when the object is the imaginary content of my thought.

If I invite you to have a cup of coffee with me, I will fill a physical object "cup", not the picture in your imagination also called "cup".
Feeling confusion
Nope. "Confusion: noun. Lack of understanding; uncertainty." Understanding and uncertainty occur in Thought, not in direct experience, in sensation. You cannot feel confusion; it is a mental state. Mental states do produce sensations, though—agitation for example, muscular tension, or even fear.
What is the sensation you are confusing with "confusion"? In your direct experience?

love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby Blacklight » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:19 pm

Hi Nona,

sorry for not posting yesterday... I did the exercises but didn't get around to summarizing them.
Put something on the desk or computer in front of you and look at it. Now remove it to somewhere out of sight and look in the place where it was. Can you see the absence of the object? The absence of something cannot be seen directly. Check it!
Checked it: The absence of something cannot be seen in direct experience. What happens is that there is seeing of the place where the object stood and quickly flashing mental images of the place with the object that's standing there. The difference is perceived as "missing".
Do this exercise, please.
As you go about your day, notice how the story of "I" gets created, moment by moment. An event happens, for example, the coffee in the machine finishes brewing, a cup gets warmed, and hot coffee is poured into the cup. Mind announces "I did it. I ground the beans, I filled the machine, I pressed the buttons, I warmed a cup, I poured the coffee."
Mmmmm, first sip of the fresh brew. Mind announces "I tasted that."
Cup is carried out to the desk, to its home next to the computer. Mind says "I carried that; I put that there."
But DID "I" do any of that at all? Check it!! Does an "I" come dashing in to do the grinding, the pouring, the carrying?? Or do these events happen as part of the morning, without a separate Grind-er, Button-push-er, Cup-fill-er, Carry-er, Sip-er at all? Isn't the morning routine just another example of Life living itself?
Ok, I think there were two moments where this was seen. There was awareness-less thinking going on while driving the bike and at the moment of becoming aware mental images of the route that was driven flashed through and the mind somehow made this an "I drove that route". This happened very quickly and it is not clear if the "I drove" was a spoken thought or a mental image or something else... I'll keep on watching and see if it gets clearer.
Sweetheart, the part of a thought that we sense is its arrival; that is all. We have a sense that a thought has arrived, and we say "I'm thinking".
Now Think of a cup.
I happen to have a thermos mug right here, so I will Think of it. Shutting the eyes, I develop a picture in my mind of this cup: it is silver at the bottom and black at the top, it has a black plastic handle that attaches to the cup only at the top, it has lid with a hole in it for sipping. I have this picture very clearly in my mind's eye. It does not feel like anything at all: it is a picture in my imagination. I cannot sip from the picture; the picture cannot be filled with coffee. It is a picture. When I open my eyes I see that the picture I had in mind is very similar to the object on my desk, but not the same: the object on my desk has physicality that the picture didn't have. I can sip from the object on my desk, but not from the picture in my mind.
When I Think of the cup, I get a sensation that I label "thinking". I do not get a sensation I label "cup"; the label "cup" always refers to an object, not a sensation, even when the object is the imaginary content of my thought.

If I invite you to have a cup of coffee with me, I will fill a physical object "cup", not the picture in your imagination also called "cup".
Ok, this is important information. I was not sure if a thought containing an object should be labeled with the object's name. I'll practice getting the labeling straight and only label thoughts as "thinking" and not by their content.
Nope. "Confusion: noun. Lack of understanding; uncertainty." Understanding and uncertainty occur in Thought, not in direct experience, in sensation. You cannot feel confusion; it is a mental state. Mental states do produce sensations, though—agitation for example, muscular tension, or even fear.
What is the sensation you are confusing with "confusion"? In your direct experience?
The sensations that come up when there is what I called "confusion" are jumping half-finished thoughts that where few thoughts are repeated. With this comes a light pressure at the front and upper part of the head/brain. The body is tight and there is pulsating and slightly painful contractions of the belly region, a little choking of the throat (this might be fear which has a similar bodily signature).

All in all there has been a lot of fatigue in the last days (construction workers below my window in the very early morning) which makes it hard to get a clear awareness...

Martin

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nonaparry
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Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

Postby nonaparry » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:18 pm

Hi Martin,
There was awareness-less thinking going on while driving the bike and at the moment of becoming aware mental images of the route that was driven flashed through and the mind somehow made this an "I drove that route". This happened very quickly and it is not clear if the "I drove" was a spoken thought or a mental image or something else... I'll keep on watching and see if it gets clearer.
Excellent. Keep watching. What-happens-when is very helpful in seeing through the illusion there is a separate self.
I was not sure if a thought containing an object should be labeled with the object's name. I'll practice getting the labeling straight and only label thoughts as "thinking" and not by their content.
In the Theory of Logical Types, both the experience of a chair and the Label "chair" are called "chair". It is seen that we cannot SIT in a label, so the label is clearly not the thing! But the word, the label, is the same for the thing we sit in AND the label. Language easily confuses between the actual object and the label attached to the object.
All in all there has been a lot of fatigue in the last days (construction workers below my window in the very early morning) which makes it hard to get a clear awareness...
Check it: are the construction workers the impediment to clear awareness? or it is the expectation of what should be that is the impediment to clear awareness?

Again I ask, is there an actual self at all? or only a story of an I that is believed? Check it!!

love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


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