Polite request for guidance.

[DanielDempsey]

The thought 'there is still something to be done' is part of the experience. Part of the stream. It seems funny now.

[DanielDempsey]

Also, last night after 'I' saw it. It felt like on the brink of sleep consciousness was playing. Pulling back from the brink of sleep. Sort of dancing on the fence between asleep and awake. It was very pleasant.

[Jorge786]

I always told myself that I had 'free will'. But there is no 'I' to possess anything.

If there is not "free will" what implications does that

[DanielDempsey]

There is no 'I' to have free will. The whole idea of 'free will' is that there is somebody experiencing it. There is experience, 'free will' is a judgement that comes after the experience. The judgement is thought and thought is experience. The idea of 'free will' is another thought arising and passing...sorry I don't know if I'm making sense or not.

I will try again. Free will is a concept. All concepts are thoughts. Thoughts arise and pass and they are not me. Everything is as it should be.

Maybe it's like this;
Watching...no-self just conditioned arising and passing thoughts. Fear arises. Fear leads on to the thought of 'no free will'. But it doesn't seem to matter. The watching doesn't mind.

Hope I'm communicating this in some kind of understandable way.

[DanielDempsey]

I don't really know what you mean by asking me what the implications are. I can tell you the feelings that arise when faced with there being no free will. Comfort and acceptance. The future will happen. Decisions will be made. Shit happens right?

[DanielDempsey]

At times the thought arrives that there is one making decisions. But this is an illusion. Well...not even an illusion, a thought. Another thought. Then other times the idea of 'no free will' arises. This is a thought too. They are thoughts arising and passing, conditioned by previous thoughts. I think in Buddhism they call it 'dependent origination'.
That's more the idea that keeps coming up. It is more complex than free will vs. no free-will. Everything is conditioned by everything else and through this body/mind it flows. It's awesome.

[Jorge786]

I did not mean nothing but the question.
There was not any, no other intention than to know what you think of the fact that there is no "free will".

Well ... seems you've been through the gate
Anything you want to dig deeper?

[Jorge786]

or... if you want to continue with the thoughts that come and discoveries that are happening ... go ahead ... I'm reading carefully

[DanielDempsey]

Sorry Jorge, I didn't think that you had any other intentions. Just didn't really know what you meant by implications.

So...I've been through the gate? I feel the same. Just maybe a subtle shift in perception. This is a process though right? A continual discovery like you said in an earlier post. Doubt still arises as to whether anything has changed or anything is different.

There is one question. Thoughts arise and pass. Negative and positive are value judgements. But, my actions can still effect others who are still stuck in the idea of there being an 'I'. But, there is no 'I' to control the actions and all thoughts and actions happen without a controller. Is it that from seeing from a perspective of no-self 'positive' thoughts and actions tend to arise?

[DanielDempsey]

There are still many questions that I have?

This is a viewpoint that has to continually be worked on right? The habit of identification still seems to happen. Maybe just feels less concrete than before.

I suppose there was expectation of some kind of massive realization and change in perspective. There was none. It doesn't feel much different. Yet there is a subtle difference.

So this is a starting point? The personality is still there. Conditioned thoughts and thought tendencies arise. Is this the point from which to work on them? They don't really matter. They come and go. But thoughts become actions which then effect others still stuck in the illusion of self.

[DanielDempsey]

Also, I want to thank you again. Thank you so much for your help.

[Jorge786]

There are still many questions that I have?

my experience here was there more questions... no... discoveries... after "event"

[DanielDempsey]

So...where to now? How do 'I' get involved in the aftercare group? Would like to help others too, but obviously not ready yet.

[Jorge786]

This is a viewpoint that has to continually be worked on right?

in my opinion, there is a time when this viewpoint should "settle"

The habit of identification still seems to happen.

the real issue is "Knowing" with certainty that there is no "I", then keep "looking", can be annoying at times ... but that is gradually subsiding.
The sense of "I" may persist, but it is a habit that is uprooted.

I suppose there was expectation of some kind of massive realization and change in perspective.

Not necessarily, did not happen here, and I think such a realization happens less often.
What you are reporting is not a great change of perspective?,
There is no "I"!, does not change that the world?! ;)

So this is a starting point?

yes, for me... yes,
whats for you?

The personality is still there

please describe the "personality"

Conditioned thoughts and thought tendencies arise.

but... that thoughts and tendencies come from "you", or they are "you"?

But thoughts become actions which then effect others still stuck in the illusion of self.

a few questions more on this
there are "others"?
are "you" in control of anything?
there are no consequences of "free will does not exist"?
are "you" doing something?
is not everything running by itself?

[Jorge786]

didn't see your last post