for Doreen!

[clearskye]

Another question, Doreen. If thoughts and feelings simply arise, and we have no control over them, how can they be personal?
with love,
Skye

[Doreba]

But the universe is manifested--it's filled with objects. Objects come and go. We're looking for what is prior (but not in time) to anything manifested--that is always, everpresent. Can you "find" that? Find is of course the wrong word, because that suggests something manifested. But look where I'm pointing. What do thoughts arise in? What do feelings arise in?

The only way I can describe this through my experience is as an energetic "force" that has always existed. Some would call this a higher power, spiritual, God or simply energy. It's funny ... I have pondered such questions as a teenager. At age 18 I wrote ... "Out into the stills where the mind can't conceive of nothing. There has to be something to see nothing. Nothing is something so nothing cannot exist." Since writing that so many years ago, I have now arrived at your question and maybe I am totally missing where you are pointing me but when I close my eyes and become still, I can only sense an overall, faceless, energetic force with no beginning and no end.

Another question, Doreen. If thoughts and feelings simply arise, and we have no control over them, how can they be personal?

I think we try to make our thoughts and feelings personal when we get caught up in our humanness. But if we are all part of this one, big energetic force, they cannot really be personal. Again, this question also triggered a memory of a poem entitled, "On Wings of Freedom" that I wrote at age 18, which read, in part, "Suddenly ... my body becomes detached — Projected — far off from the planet we call Earth — Exempt from the rules, as the labels that had become a permanent part of my existence are disconnected ... drifting to other unaware, poor souls." And so even at age 18, I had some sense of this same kind of looking, to know that if we are all just part of this overall energetic flow of this thing we call life, then none of it is personal. It's like we have been given parts to play, as if actors on a stage. Good actors play their roles very convincingly. They act out their feelings, emoting to their audience. But when they separate themselves from their roles, none of those feelings was really theirs. None was personal.

[clearskye]

Yes, you are getting where I'm pointing.

So Doreen, I would like to pose a number of questions to you, one at a time... answer each one from your direct experience.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

with love,
Skye

[Doreba]

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

I notice a body but I also notice that there are times when I feel I am outside of my body. The fact is ... in this existence, "I" have a body. Does that mean there is a me? No, as it is a part of a greater whole ... that energetic force of which I wrote earlier. Was there ever? The same experience applies to this question. As for a self, my experience is that everything — animate and inanimate , such as the trees that are surrounding me as I write this, the cool breezes, and the pineapples that are growing next to me — all make up this energy that we call life.

So how/why is it that we communicate using the words — me, my, I, myself? I guess it's a way to communicate in a way that we understand as energetic beings. If I take away the forms of what I see, i.e. the trees, my dogs, birds, bodies, everything ... it's all energy, and that takes away any sense of self. I can take these same forms and picture them all as energetic balls of light — some are bouncing around, some are still. Together, they're all just one big energetic force that will forever continue.

I ask the question — "If there is no self, then what is the point?" For example, so much of our lives is spent in trying to figure out "our" life's purpose. Does this realization of "no self," "no me," negate all of that? That thought brings up such a feeling of detachment and then I release that thought, knowing it's just a thought that carries its own energy. And then I return to a place of "no self" and "I" am OK with that. "I" am part of an energy making up the whole. I'm not a wave in the ocean. I AM the ocean, and so is everyone and everything else. With no self, there is nothing to protect, nothing to defend.

In this energetic existence, "I" have a body. Like I always say, "It is what it is." Or is it? No me, no self. Not before. Not now. Not ever. With this experience of knowing, where do I go from here? How does life change? I stop and realize ... these are all future thinking thoughts. In this now moment, nothing matters. Birds chirping in the background, wind blowing. It's all good!

[clearskye]

Beautiful response, Doreen.
Okay, next question:
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

with love,
Skye

[Doreba]

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

I don't know whether I can pinpoint the exact moment of when the illusion of a separate self begins. We come into this world as babies, which seemingly do not immediately identify with the labels we give them, i.e. boy, girl, son, daughter, brother, sister, their name, etc. They cry when they're hungry or need their diaper changed. At some point, pretty early on, they begin to identify with their name, learn to talk and exhibit feelings beyond responding to basic needs. So I would say this is when the illusion of a separate self starts. Thoughts and feelings begin to float in and out and we become aware of them; we're taught certain principles of how we got here and our beliefs begin to take root, one of which is that we are separate from the whole, that energetic force to which I've previously referred.

The older we get, the more entrenched we get in our beliefs and the more separate we feel. Some people continue living with the belief they are a separate self with no conscious desire or need to dispel this myth. Others go on a lifelong path of seeking "enlightenment," forever looking for that state of beingness. And then there is the Liberation Unleashed process for those who are open, which hastens that search and points the way through direct experience. It is in this looking, this moment by moment experiencing, that this illusion of a separate self is shattered.

A footnote: Whether the illusion begins as soon as we incarnate into our bodies is hard to know, as it is difficult to get into the head of an infant. That said, there have been many studies conducted that evaluate babies who are not tended to with love and affection. For example, babies who are isolated in poorly run orphanages with little care grow up with "separation anxiety" and other emotional problems. So it's possible that the illusion of separation of self actually begins at birth.

[clearskye]

Beautiful response, Doreen. Okay, next question:

3) How does it feel to see this (the illusion of the separate self and how it works? Describe in detail.

with love,
Skye

[Doreba]

How does it feel to see this (the illusion of the separate self and how it works? Describe in detail.)

To know that a separate self is an illusion actually feels just fine to me. When I allow myself to just experience the space of that one energetic force, it's kind of an "outside looking in" feeling ... a knowing that "I" have this body in which I am functioning day to day and yet I know it is really not separate from the whole. It is an illusion, a mind creation. Yes, "I" see people walking around, talking, interacting and from all outward appearances, they each appear to be a separate self. But because there is truly no separation, then this can only be an illusion.

I believe I tapped into this seeing many years ago. It was more fleeting back then as a little girl and I questioned it a lot. Now it's more of a knowing, which gives me an overall feeling of "lightness." Yes, I feel somewhat lighter overall. It is what it is and I am good with that. I appreciate your guidance, which has felt supportive and loving!

With love and gratitude,
Doreen

[clearskye]

Lovely, Doreen.

Glad that the work with me has felt supporting and loving, because that is exactly what I am! Glad that comes across.

Here's the next question:

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?

with love,
Skye

[Doreba]

How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?

To answer your question, I am going to assume I am speaking with a woman so I don't have to do the he/she thing. First, I would probably be brief in my description and refer her to the Liberation Unleashed process for an experience of her own. I would not want my experience to influence her experience. But to give her some understanding of the illusion, I would describe it like this: The illusion is about us feeling that we are separate from the whole — the energetic flow we call life — and that our thoughts and feelings are not something we actually control. The illusion is created in the mind. The mind wants to place labels on "us" yet there really is no such entity as "ourselves" (speaking collectively here). The illusion is that there are all of these individual realities when in fact there is just one reality of life flowing freely all on its own and if she really investigates this, she will discover this illusion for herself.

[clearskye]

clearly said, Doreen.
Next question:
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

with love,
Skye

[Doreba]

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

There was not a "specific moment" when seeing happened. It definitely was gradual. Like I have referenced in previous answers, I had fleeting moments of this seeing/knowing as a child that continued into the teenage years and beyond. I just wasn't sure what I was seeing way back then and there certainly was no one to confirm what I was looking at at that time! So when I heard about this process, I became curious because of those seeing moments I had previously experienced. Your questions about how thoughts and feelings arise and whether we control them helped to make what I was seeing more clear. I don't think I ever really looked at that in that way so that was helpful. Sometimes the thought of "no self" still can get "heady" for me if I find myself doing too much thinking about it. It's cool though when I "catch myself" doing that and then I return to the moment knowing that none of those thoughts matters anyway. Other experiences that helped the seeing to become more clear was when I was in nature — just hearing birds chirping and feeling wind blowing — as well as times when I was "lost" while playing music and singing. That's the best I can describe how the seeing happened.

[clearskye]

It was very gradual for me as we'll, Doreen. So gradual, in fact, that I almost didn't notice.
Okay, I'm on my little phone. Lets see if I can find the next question...
6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?
With love,
Skye

[Doreba]

When you say "I", what are you referring to?

"I" is a label, a thought, a reference to communicate within the illusion that "we" have created in the separation from the energetic force or flow that I have written about previously. In this life's existence, "I" will still refer to myself as "I" — otherwise communication would be very difficult. "I" still exist as part of the energetic flow — it's just without a self attached and nothing owns and operates the doing, the breathing, the sensing, etc.

[clearskye]

My understanding as well.
Next question:
7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?

with love,
Skye