Who is it that is aware self is an illusion?

[Neal]

I'm not going to let you turn this back on me and give me attitude. I've done everything you asked and answered all your questions and put my deepest thoughts and feelings out there... for you to call it word games and belittle my motivations?

Thanks a lot.

[Neal]

Just forget it, Ian. You ticked me off with that last post but I have no hard feelings at you. We just didn't click or something. I didn't mean that post about being jerked around as hostile. You said be honest, so I was. Your reply came across downright condescending and dismissive to me after I did all you had asked.

Just forget it.

[Neal]

I'll add lastly, though: You don't anything about my suffering or struggles and it was pretty messed up for you to act like you did. Peace.

[Neal]

"Don't *know* anything about", I meant.

Have a good day.

[Finoh]

Hi Neal

This is great Neal, your last few posts. I now have sense that the real Neal is showing up.

I'm not going to let you turn this back on me and give me attitude.

Have a look at who this I’m and me is in the above. Really look. Does this I or me exist.

You ticked me off with that last post but I have no hard feelings at you.

Again what is this I or me. The I or me, the sense of separation is why people suffer.

I'll add lastly, though: You don't anything about my suffering or struggles and it was pretty messed up for you to act like you did. Peace.

I would like to see you get through the gate so that suffering and struggles are greatly reduced. If there is no I who suffers.

I have sent you a private message with what it is like to live an awakened life, so you have more of a sense what it is like.

Cheers

Ian

[Neal]

The real Neal?

[at1]

The real Neal?

Sounds like a label for a self of some sort to me.

[Neal]

The real Neal?

Sounds like a label for a self of some sort to me.

The name is just a name. I have a first and middle name. Neither is me. They were given to me.

That doesn't "prove" I don't exist. How would I prove I don't exist? And wouldn't the attempt itself suggest something is there that could be called self?

Does the intangibility of the chooser "prove" no choice is ever made?

[Finoh]

Neal and At1,
Please stick to you own thread, once you are through the gate there will be plenty of opportunities to assist others which from the looks of it both of you will be up for it.

Just for your info here are the rules

The rules of One-On-One are simple.

If you are looking for a guide, you will see some sticky posts at the top, by available guides at the moment. feel free to jump in.

You can also post a topic (there is a button, New Topic ) in which you either request for a particular guide or start an open invitation. If you are liberated, post an invitation to someone who is ready.

Stay in the one-on-one until you, if you are ready, have seen the truth, or if, you are a liberated person, you have freed the person you are speaking to.

You do not interrupt a One-On-One between two others.

A One-On-One can only take place between someone who has been liberated and someone who has not. green coded members are not allowed to have One-On-Ones with each other in this forum.

Cheers

Ian

[Neal]

I apologize. I assumed you were finished with me here and he posted so I responded and also spoke to him in his thread too.

[Finoh]

Hi Neal

The name is just a name. I have a first and middle name. Neither is me. They were given to me.

As you have said your identity is purely conceptual. You are to use a quote, “ever present non- conceptual presence awareness.” This is a very accurate description of your true nature but takes a bit to get your head around it.

Look at a university. All it is, is a bunch of buildings, with certain types of people, with certain things being thought there. The label “university” is put on this area, and the feel of it being a university becomes very real, almost like an entity in itself. But there is only a bunch of buildings there. Now take your life, your limbs, head, brain, blood, guts, memories, thoughts, and feelings. All this stuff very much exists and is very real, but when all this stuff references itself and uses language like “me,” “myself,” and “I,” over time something that seems real appears, a feeling of ownership over all that a feeling of control, a feeling of “I am my name,” “This is me.” But truthfully, there’s nothing more there than the brain, the blood, the guts, the thoughts, the memories, and so on.
Much of this work consists of seeing how we get hooked by “our” thoughts. We examine these sharp, pointy, and sticky places. Just look in your direct experience and thought processes for the answers. Very simply: how do we “own” things? The screen you are reading on, is it a “your” screen or just “a” screen? Which seems more true? And why?

That doesn't "prove" I don't exist.

That’s right, liberation is not about proving you don’t exist, you do but it is the thought “I” that doesn’t exist. The “I” thought that gives us so much grief.

Your true nature is that which is aware of this “I” thought.

If I said to you,” Do you exist?” You would not have to do much research to come back with the answer yes. Your own existence is probably the one thing that you can be absolutely certain of.

Keep looking at your daily experiences. Look for the moment the “I” label gets attached to a movement, to “doing-ness.” There is an experience, and the thought comes up, “I” did it. Watch out for this. Be like a detective, ready to spot it! Experience happens, and a thought labels it.

Neal you have had some very accurate insights in the last post.

Cheers

Ian

[Neal]

That is difficult to process.

[Neal]

I have just realized I have held onto old pain and fear as part of what defined me.

[Neal]

Experiencing an odd struggle, as if desperately grabbing for a solid edge to hang onto while also watching this struggle calmly.

[Neal]

"Much of this work consists of seeing how we get hooked by “our” thoughts. We examine these sharp, pointy, and sticky places. Just look in your direct experience and thought processes for the answers. Very simply: how do we “own” things? The screen you are reading on, is it a “your” screen or just “a” screen? Which seems more true? And why?"

It just is. Is first. The idea of belonging or owning comes after. Its existence is primary. My perception of its existence is secondary, an idea of it relative to an idea of me..