H&H (Hello and Help) :)

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Eloratea
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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Eloratea » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:39 am

One more thing...often it happens when I is half seen through that thought arise...what is so nice in here and now...look it's so boring...instead you could fantasize with me about....whatsoever...or go and do something fun or really important....etc. It happens mostly when the space is seen or at least felt...what to do then? Maybe a wrong question...how not to do then, how not fall into the hole....
You can’t control thoughts as “you” is just one of them. Let this be seen clearly.

http://www.uncoveringlife.com/no-enligh ... he-seeker/

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Zmay
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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Zmay » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:35 am

Looking.......

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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Zmay » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:28 pm

:)

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Eloratea
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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Eloratea » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:33 pm

What does that mean? :)
What have you seen?
It would be nice to have some more words here :)

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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Zmay » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:13 pm

I don't know what to say....like few days ago, but deeper, stronger...no fuss...

just no fuss...no wanting, somehow like the body is functioning on its own...like my hand yesterday, not much thought...a kind of lazyness...I was humming no satisfaction, from roling stones, thinking how it would be good words for analogy of the trying to reach it...and then thinking went....and I somehow no no me just humming for I don't know...15...30min....looking...then recognised I am humming for so long...walked arround like in a fog...little uncontroled...hit my toe on something...latter spilled some water...Some people...interaction...as from somewhere else...I do and talk but like I can't explaine from where the words come...just answering, no thinking...at least not much...looking at my body, laughing...looks so foreighn. Make lunch, again some uncotrolled motion, spiled something, but no fuss...just get done what need to be...no anger, no inside lamentation...I don't know is it something...and I does not care... in 10 min go to school...see how it is and then will tell...some kind of freedom, no regrets, no ...I don't know...:) no pressure...:), body functioning as on remote control...it getting order from somewhere....

Will see...:)

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Eloratea
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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Eloratea » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:23 pm

Take care.
Seeing no-self doesn't mean walking around in a fog cloud.
It is actually state of greater alertness and mindfulness. Presence without constant projecting and projecting of self image.

Till later.

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Zmay
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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Zmay » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:13 pm

Hello,

well the fog word was maybe not choosen wiselly (you told me not to read a lot and change what I write) It's kind of very narow focus like the center of eyes is super clear and so rest seams unclear. But not so important, as it was no big crash and it looks nothing like I expected I think it is not that :-).

The school, I was today with a very difficult class...and it was almost unreal good...normally I come whole worn out from just few hours...today it was different and fun. I have very nice answers that come in a different way, normally I think about what I can replay or react, what is apropriate, what is right...now answers were just there, like direct knowledge, can't explain, kind of flow with the energy of all of us. Normally it is like a fight, now it was a dance. Must wach more...

I will continue looking....

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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Eloratea » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:28 pm

But not so important, as it was no big crash and it looks nothing like I expected I think it is not that :-).
Didn't I also say that it is neccessary to leave aside all expectations.
Who says it is going to be a big crash.
The school, I was today with a very difficult class...and it was almost unreal good...normally I come whole worn out from just few hours...today it was different and fun. I have very nice answers that come in a different way, normally I think about what I can replay or react, what is apropriate, what is right...now answers were just there, like direct knowledge, can't explain, kind of flow with the energy of all of us. Normally it is like a fight, now it was a dance. Must wach more...
This sounds good.
Now try this gentle looking.
When breathing is there you breathing, or it is just breathing?
In hearing is there a you, or just hearing/heard?
In seeing is there a see-er or just seeing/seen?

Sending Love.

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Zmay
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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Zmay » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:20 am

Who says it is going to be a big crash.
No one...but somehow I think it would be something that I notice (not necessary a big bang, but something that is relatively clear seen) :)

Good morning to you, and good morning to good old me...which is back this morning in all his glory, some hard, unpleasant dreams and waking with me on my side. Lot of work today, will watch what you gave me for homework whenever is possible.

Until now the breathing I notice in two ways, one is when I notice it not at all, just later I see I'm breathing and my mind fills the gaps of unawareness (I must have been breathing all the time) and secondly when I watch my breathing it seams I have a pretty strong control over it, faster, slower, pause if I wish...I have the feeling I control it at will. So untill now it looks like two kind of operation...autonomus and if I wish controled. I tried but failed to notice like in movement off the hand an certain independance like the me can just watch and it is happening. There is an exepcion...the time I controle is limited as my thoughts begin to wander and forget about the breathing and it goes to autonomus automatically, or when I try to hold it forever....well of course after some time when I am chooking :) the I gives up and breathing begines again...

Hearing and seeing I have not explored so much. Little of hearing, the sound is noticed...before thoughts begine to classify (far away, close, cause...), then it is pure and just existing...sometime I feel it when a sound of birds come...suppose there is not so much to classify, just the mind says...aha a bird, and there sometimes I feel just a sound.

In seeing...well it's always arround and very persuaisive...I mean so conected with thinking, so fast changing and so soone after seeing the thinking is attached that separation is almost not noticable....at night before sleep...yesterday...it was so beautifull...just what was, window, open door, clear lines, orange damped coloure of the night....clear and perfect, just it...and thinking was not strong, first yesterday there was some change in my perception and secondly before sleep the mind was additionally silenced preparing for sleep :). But it is seldom that I expirience such thing normally...I will look further.

Have a beautifull day

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Eloratea
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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Eloratea » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:43 am

There is no old you to come and go.
Just thoughts; old thought patterns.

Keep looking and, what is most important, SEE.

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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Zmay » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:17 am

Yes, I was doing some exercise I do (5 tibetans) and when I was spinning it dawned on me...I first encountered it when learning hypnosys, there we experientelly saw that our, what we called conssiuss I, can do 6-9 things tops simultanious, and wat we called subconsious I, is allmighty...it does million of things in the same moment, from lever to heart and eyes...and every cell. The so called consious self is nothing in comparison.

Now I was spining, looking at the breathing, looking...counting the breaths...and I saw a tiny bitsy delay in thought...aldou I comanded, faster, slower, be in tune...it is an illusion, the body allready has done it, thoughts have a delay...and then I saw I am doing thousand of things...every muscel must work perfetly in order my body spins and does not fall...and all the other things...my mind is just jumping from one focus point to another and pretendes it is in charge ::))). All the time everything is happening and the mind just jumps from sight to breath, to hand to balance...but all of that is happening all the time. It (the mind) is filling the gaps of course, but it can do nothing, it is just happening...everything so much bigger then this little points of concentrated thoughts...and sometimes I jump on the thought train that brings me somevere in future or past....but all the time my body is spinning and breathing and ballancing and seeing and coordinating heart and ...everything.

It reminded me when workers do something on a site and a high positioned boss comes and talks to his visitor (me) how he has done that and this and how great he is, and how nothing goes right when he is not watching and controlling....and all the time workers are moving stones and drilling and....so I always at this moments thought...yes you pompose ass...you have done all this...ha, ha....my mind is like that, like that boss....

Well but still it does not last, now the monkey boss is braging about his great insights...and hopping for a cooky...:)

Will watch further....

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Eloratea
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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Eloratea » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:28 am

Try to focus.
Cut through all thought loops - with gentle observing - is there anyone/anything behind?

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Zmay
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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Zmay » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:26 pm

Try to focus.
Cut through all thought loops - with gentle observing - is there anyone/anything behind?
Uf, uf...try to focus....mind grinding and pressure rising...headache...

gentel observing....how when brain is steaming....

I keep trying...

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Zmay
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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Zmay » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:42 pm

Have had a bad few hours...the whole thing begines to remind me on a rollercoaster...up and down...up and down...

Will try one...

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Eloratea
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Re: H&H (Hello and Help) :)

Postby Eloratea » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:56 pm

rollercoaster is fine. No thing, no happening can obstruct the clarity of our real nature.
No thought and no feeling.
And there is just one second of clear seeing needed to see that all this is happening to no one.


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