Ready to see - where do I start?

[Satya Shelly]

No. What "states" come and go will be enjoyed, experienced. But states are fleeting, by their nature, aren't they? Like thoughts, qualities, feelings, etc. There was no expectation before, other than uncovering truth. Uncovering is happening. It seems like expectation of a "state" of being, of consciousness, or whatever, would be adding back a layer of covering.
SS

[SeeEye]

I am happy that unfolding is happening for you.

Do you have any doubts left at this point about your "self"?

Are you ready for some final questions that will be looked at by other guides as well?

[Satya Shelly]

Sure, go ahead.

SS

[SeeEye]

SS, please answer in full when ready.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

[SeeEye]

SS? What's happening for you now?

[Satya Shelly]

A lot of emotions are arising, especially anger and irritation, and a lot of temptation to say they belong to an "I" -- also a lot of temptation to see a "you" (not you personally, CI, but a "you" generally, everywhere, in the same sense as "I", as a label for thoughts and experiences). The complex structure of "I" gave meaning and purpose -- illusory or not, it was a structure within which things appeared to happen. Without that emotions just arise and there is no story to tell about them and how they can be relieved or denied.

Also the bodily sensations are strong -- joints ache, throat aches, heart hurts, swelling. Lots of pain passing through.

Answers to the 5 questions are available, but no readiness to answer them. Lots of stuff arising here and it feels like dissembling to sit and write answers to questions on the computer.

SS

[SeeEye]

If you would like to share the anger and irritation, I would be happy to lend a hand if possible. There is a transition that happens.

Are you feeling that things should be of could have been different?

The questions are also to give us an idea of your seeing and where you are. May help both of us with next steps. There is a Facebook group and resources to help with the transition and life after as it goes on.

I found taking walks and getting out and about felt good.

Much love to you

[Satya Shelly]

OK, ready. Questions first, then the other stuff.

No, there is no me anywhere, in any way, shape or form, and there never was. There is no self separate from everything else.

The illusion of separate self begins with "learning" as a baby/child. Things happen naturally with a baby, but it "learns" from the human beings around it that it is a doer, that it makes things happen. So gradually the being stops the natural participation in life flowing, and begins to weave the illusion of a "me" who is separate from mom, dad, toy, food, tree, spider and so on, and overcomes its natural sense that the universe is all one, causeless auspicious happening.

How does it feel to see this? Simple, effortless. Like: how is it that we are all missing this? Layers and layers of old crusty junk just come peeling and clunking off. Emotions long stored up in joints and muscles bursting out of their confinement dissipating back into the void. A certain vigilance is required in this early stage, it seems, a vigiliance against the temptation of "I".

I would describe it initially as causeless auspiciousness, but that's not going to mean much probably. I would have to sort of see where someone is before I start talking about it, and take some cues from their questions and concerns. But I would start I suppose with causeless auspiciuosness.

[Satya Shelly]

See Eye,

Thanks for the love.

I can't say there is much story to the anger and irritation. It feels old and storyless. It mostly seems to arise as a temptation to see an "I" -- whose anger, whose irritation? But I look again and sure enough, it's nobody's. Just arising. There may be some ancient grudge but no sense of its content comes.

The walking and getting out does help.

I notice that social anxiety is almost completely gone, what is left of it is a kind of faint echo, a memory of how painful it was to believe in an "I". By contrast social interactions are now free flowing and light. Like a butterfly touching down here and there and moving on. No hangovers from encounters and situations.

All the pain arising in the body is also a temptation to reform the "I". Whose pain? Who feels the pain? Physical pain is the strongest temptation. Pain in head - daughter walks through the room, not feeling pain in the head - so it's obviously not "her" pain, right? Whose is it? I look, look, look, look --- there is just pain arising, no I having it. It's nobody's pain. Sensations arise, sensations subside, something else arises, that also goes, no I, just that.

So I guess although I say it's effortless there is a vigilance required to not fall back into the "habit" of creating an "I" in every moment. but paradoxically it's the habit that's the effort. Ok, no more words for now. Just some quiet.

See ya.

SS

[Satya Shelly]

CI,

I forgot to answer the last of the questions. The realization was very gradual, over a period of years, a series of experiences and of looking into how things really work. One key experience for me was waking up one morning in the ashram and noticing that I was, upon waking up, "rebuilding" myself, putting on my personality bit by bit the way I put on clothes. I literally watched as the mind recreated the "me" that had been to some extent undone the night before.

Then there was 2 1/2 years of just going through the motions of life, aware that "I" was not real, but not aware of what is real, so just kind of waiting to see. During that time the "I" kind of re-grouped on a slightly different level, basically as someone waiting to be shown what the nature of reality is by someone who knows.

What sent me over that edge was your comment about reality trying to define itself. That seemed to break the last thin veil. I saw that I had been in a sense trying to understand with an instrument that is not equipped for understanding.

SS

[Satya Shelly]

In fact I was just watching the movie The Matrix and Neo says to Trinity (I'm paraphrasing): "I have all these memories of my life, and they are not real. What does that mean?" And Trinity responds, "That the matrix cannot tell you who you are."

[Satya Shelly]

So See Eye,

You mentioned a transition that takes place. What is the transition like for others? Is there a place on this site where I connect with others who are negotiating this terrain?

SS