Page 3 of 3
Re: Time to die.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:39 am
by Rohit
This is a trap. Running away never works since it's a way to hold on to safety. A way to protect yourself. It allows for the mind to lure you back into the illusion.
You truly have to take the step to look honestly. Accept no weakness, fear, etc.. They can be there, but ignore them and step into honest looking.
Do it now. No running around, no avoiding, just real, honest looking.
There is no 'it' to see. You won't 'find it' so to speak. Don't look for 'it'.
The reason YOU don't find is because YOU believe there will be something to find.
Don't seek, see.
I don't want no reward ."Honesty and courage" are my reward .
Re: Time to die.
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:18 pm
by George
You're right. No more bullshit. I lied to myself about my expectations of liberation. The truth is that I expect a marvelous awakening accompanied by celestial vision whereby I can commune with other planes and "higher" beings; I expected some kind of super-human, super-normal perception that would allow me to see astral lights, read minds, and perform siddhi powers. I wanted to be like the gurus, read akashic records, and all at the same time have life here on boring, everyday, mundane planet Earth work out perfectly according to my desires. What a shit-load of non-sense the whole thing is. I am what I am, and the more I look, the less I am. This "joy" that life is supposed to have for a certain chosen of sufficient spiritual advancement...well, I haven't seen any of it, and even worse, I blame myself as if it's my fault for not being evolved enough. Maybe it's true, hell, I don't know. You say all that is necessary is honest and courage? OK, I can't promise courage, but here's the honesty: I was out to make some undefined grade or to get something, exactly what I'm not sure. I also wanted to impress, for some dumb-ass reason. Well, I know what the reason is -- the same reason anyone seeks to impress, which is an innate feeling/sense/conviction that I'm somehow insufficient. There's the honesty. I'm a simple, mediocre person of doubtful promise and minor accomplishment, and I wanted to be an important, realized soul. Now, whatever I am, that's what I am. And here on UL I'm not even that! Oh, well, nowhere to go but up from here. This sucks.
That certainly didn't make much sense, but it sure felt good.
Re: Time to die.
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:41 pm
by Rohit
Hi george ,
Now that you know all your expectations are mere Bullshit . the best thing you can do now, is test what is TRUE.
Insult yourself. Argue with yourself. Hurt your own feelings. Go into a full-fledged attack on everything you ever thought was 'self'.
Does any of it stick?
TEST IT. That's what needs to be done now.
I'm going to give you a quick exercise. For EVERY thought/feeling that arises, break it down into components. If there is an "I" involved anywhere in the thought (even if it thinks it's the "owner" of the thought), then do the following:
Look at an object in the room. Such as your keyboard. Don't think too much of it, it's just a anchor to reality. Take the component, such as "I", and compare it to your anchor. Does it exist in the EXACT same way?
Do this for EVERY thought that passes by. Do you feel doubt that it's working? Compare THAT thought. And then THAT thought. And that one and that one. EVERY THOUGHT that passes by. Compare it to your anchor.
The thought exists. It is being experienced. Does the subject of the thought exist?
Once you do that for a while, expand beyond thoughts. Look at your experiences.
Everything in your life, everyone you know, everything you have experienced. Use this exercise on EVERYTHING.
Is there any consistency, with all of it?
Take a look at the cause of "self" where is it?
Ask yourself why your not getting this. Ask yourself what is blocking you from seeing that there is no self.
Re: Time to die.
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:09 pm
by George
Alright, I'll give the exercise a try. At least it'll be something I've never done before.
Thanks.
Re: Time to die.
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:09 am
by George
Here's what the exercise has revealed: it is impossible for anything in life to be personal. Though the feeling that something is happening to a "me," comparing that idea of "me" to something that is known to be real -- the anchor -- immediately shows the me-idea to be a fake. Example: while driving, my son pisses me off. t's a thought or a feeling or a combination or whatever. I analyze. Need an anchor. Since I'm driving, I choose the steering wheel, since it's handy. Is the steering wheel real? I sure as hell hope so, because I'm driving. Good anchor. Now, compare the pissed off feeling or thought or whatever to the steering wheel. Is the feeling-thought real? Sure. How about the "me" who is supposedly pissed off? Nowhere to be found. Can't find it. Doesn't exist. No subject. No person. Nothing personal happening.
Doing this with absolutely every thought and feeling is impossible, but I see the point of the exercise: to reveal the fantasy of a me by holding it up against something else known to be real. This is the kind of over-simplified, concrete baby step that I need for now. Keeps it real and keeps the tons of b.s. out. Notice, look, compare, evaluate, conclude. Works every time.
Re: Time to die.
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:30 pm
by Rohit
Hi George ,
Since I'm driving, I choose the steering wheel, since it's handy. Is the steering wheel real? I sure as hell hope so, because I'm driving.
can you explain this clearly .
so ,is there anyone living life ?anyone making choices ?
what is aware ?
Re: Time to die.
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:48 am
by George
The steering wheel was used as the keyboard in your exercise. I didn't have a keyboard as an anchor to reality, so I just used the steering wheel as the anchor to reality in that instance. That's all, really. Then, comparing the component parts of the experience to the anchor, it became clear that thought and emotion were being experienced and were real, but I couldn't nail down who, as a separate experiencer, was experiencing. It was the exercise as I understood it.
No one, as a separate individual, is living life or making choices. It feels like "I" am making choices, and that sense is quite convincing. However, the sense that there is an "I" making choices simply does not stand up to pointed investigation. When looked at hard, the concept vanishes. All there is is Life, patterning as George, and that pattern has preferences and habits and momentum along certain lines. However, there isn't an entity, specific and localized, separate from Life. What is aware? Awareness. Awareness expressing in this form or format here, and as something else over there.
I'll continue with the exercise.
Re: Time to die.
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:29 am
by Rohit
Good work.
so george look are "YOU" awareness or is awareness some witness ?
All of the labels which you can put on yourself are fictional, arbitrary, and false.
Not only are they not you, they refer to a you which doesn't exist.
Re: Time to die.
Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:40 am
by George
OK, so here's the deal, Rohit:
THERE
IS
NO
I/ME!
Any sense whatsoever, whenever, whatever that there is a lack, gap, absence, presence, or anything at all that should not be or cannot be found, it's all because of an "I." No "I," no problem. Game over, problems solved all of them. Not so say that there won't be problems in life to be dealt with, but they won't be "my" problems. Just regular, old, Brand X problems. That's OK, 'cause that's what the mind is for. A great tool, but a really poor master. When there is an "I" the mind thinks it owns everything, and whatever it does not own it sees as something wrong or missing. When the "I" is seen through for the phantom that it is, then POOF!, there is no more sense that things are not as they should be, pleasant or unpleasant, or anything else. The mind is a fine tool for navigating life and gives is faculties of discrimination and analysis, among other things. And, when the "I" lie is exposed and the "I" is seen through as not being true, then that "I-child" can no longer kick and scream "give me that, I have this, mine, mine, mine, don't take that away, I'm afraid of this," or anything else. I feel like I have taken a backpack full of sand and rocks and just set it down and kept on walking without it. "I" thought it was a necessary part of the hike, but it isn't, not at all. Just take it off and be rid of it.
I watched the interview with Ilona and Elana on BATGAP. That was a start. Then, I kept reading Gateless Gatecrashers, specifically the story of Greg starting on page 215. At the end of that story, I stared into a blank computer screen at my reflection, as if looking in a mirror, and a click of sorts happened. It was real this time because I wasn't trying for it, and it hasn't left. Also, all the while, I was continuing with your deconstruction exercise: in any thought, experience, feeling, find the "I" in it and see if that part is real and true or not. Well, I did, and the "I" is the part of every thought, feeling, and experience that just can't be found to have any substance or reality to it whatsoever. Simply, there is NO I. There is no I, and the belief in this fantasy is over. In its place is nothing, of course, and all my anger and frustration with my station in life is fading fast. The challenges of this life remain, but they're impersonal. EVERYTHING is impersonal. How could anything be personal without a personal aspect of "I" to accept ownership? Nope. Problems, sure. But not "MY" problems.
So, what do you need me to do now? Answer some questions? Sure, no prob. Let me go back and find them. You know, it turns out that many of my glimpses -- times where there was a peek into seeing -- were pretty authentic, right up to the point when the belief in a separate self kicked in and I didn't know how to look into it. I'm very grateful for your little exercise. It forces direct inquiry, right to the heart of the question: "Is the 'I' part of ANYTHING real by any standard or measure whatsoever? Find out." It's only that persistent, direct inquiry that let the truth in. Man, I can't stop rambling...all this bubbling up. Sorry. Let me go back and get those questions.
Re: Time to die.
Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:28 am
by George
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
This sounds funny now, as in chuckling funny. The answer is, No. No me. I can't say it's gone, because it never was there to begin with; however, the belief/assumption that there is a "me" is gone, and so the feeling of a "me" is gone. I don't even resent that the story was taken as true for so long. Was never, not now, never will be.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
We are taught and reinforced in an "I/me" idea right from the start. "...he knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake." "I" better be good. And, if "I" am not, then it's either Shame Time or Guilt Time, or both. Shame = "I" am bad; Guilt = "I" did bad. It's all about the "I" and it starts before we can defend ourselves, and it never subsides! EVER! Positive or negative reinforcement in the "I" concept are the same: they both serve to solidify the "I" to be used against us and motivate us with more "I-based" rewards or punishments. Then, by whatever stroke of luck, fate, grace, or whatever, some of us are shown a ray of light and a way out. Damned lucky few who start to question to the point of madness until someone asks us to see for ourselves what is truly real and what is labeling or a story.
3) How does it feel to see this?
Not entirely sure yet. Relief is the first sensation, as if it's no longer necessary to keep blowing air into the "I" balloon that was always leaking. Nothing to prop up. There is fatigue mixed with mild excitement. Also, conditions don't threaten me anymore because there's nothing for them to bite on...no me. Pretty good and at-ease-ness, overall, if tired for some reason.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who is very interested, but has never heard about this illusion.
Suffering is optional for those who are willing to put absolutely everything on Pause and follow through with a simple process whereby observation, questioning, and honest analysis is engaged. This is 100% self-help, but that does not mean that it must be done alone. Let go, step out, have a good look and see for yourself. Disconnect the buttons that life pushes you around with by removing the "you" that is rumored to be hooked up to these buttons. The rumor is false, and once seen no amount of button-pushing by the world will have the slightest effect. I would tell them that, after 39 years of twice-daily meditation, 39 hours (actually, much less) of this has lifted the veil for me, and it can for them, too.
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Resignation and surrender. See, I tried to give up, but I had this real pain-in-the-neck guide who told me what I already knew: There is no way back from this, there is no escape except to keep moving forward to the end. You can stop, but you can't quit. This will be with you -- all over you like slime -- until the task is done. If you run, it'll follow you like your own shadow, because that's what it is. When it's easier to stop, turn, face whatever is chasing or driving you regardless of consequences, than it is to keep running and playing around, then that did it. I ran out of options for avoiding the work, really. That's pretty much it.