The Gate

Hi Stacy,

1. No there isn’t a separate self and there never was, only the illusion of self generated by thoughts.

2. I can’t really explain this in words

3. It feels freeing to see this. Before the dialogue we have been having I was anxious to see through the me stuff. Looking directly without thought made things clearer, no boundaries between anything. At first it felt joyous, then scary, then slipping back into me thoughts at times.

4.I am not sure it’s fully seen to be honest Stacy, it felt so obvious for a few days then doubt has crept in.

5. Decision - who is deciding , I don’t know !

Intention - again, I don’t know where intention comes from

Free will - not sure that it exists

Choice - if there is no me then I don’t know who/what chooses

Control - I see that control is not possible and that everything just is as it is

Something seems to make things happen but I don’t know what.

I don’t seem to be responsible for much really, maybe the words I speak and my reactions to things around me. I feel that what I choose to say or not say may be ‘my’ responsibility.

6. Attaching to thoughts and the ‘me’ seems very sticky still. I have been through a real emotional rollercoaster, elation, sadness, frustration, fear, all feel much more intense.

Thank you for your patience Stacy,
With love

Hi Stacy,

One more thing… before I started this process with you, I would have ‘known’ the answer to these last questions and enjoyed answering them intellectually. Now i find them baffling to attempt to answer.

Much love

Okay...

#2. Yes, you can. There are 2 ways to answer this.

#4. That will come & go. Just keep looking.

#6. Emotions are a Sensation, usually the lie contraction, plus a thought story & labels. Take those apart & what is Actual Experience?

Attaching to thoughts and the ‘me’ seems very sticky still.

Keep LOOKING at Actual Experience. "Me" is nothing but a flimsy thought.

I have been through a real emotional rollercoaster, elation, sadness, frustration, fear, all feel much more intense.

"Real" is defined as that which doesn't go away when you stop thinking about it. So, is it "real?"

Look closely.

Loving

Hi Stacy

You asked “Emotions are a Sensation, usually the lie contraction, plus a thought story & labels. Take those apart & what is Actual Experience?”
Yes, I see that emotions arise from sensations felt somewhere in the body that cause thoughts about the emotion and then a story builds around it. Pure sensation just gets stuff piled on top to start a narrative.

In early childhood, I existed just fine without thoughts of being a separate me. I was aware of discomfort when flashes of a separate me occurred, yet we are actively encouraged to view ourselves as separate beings, it’s a vital part of growing up. That misconception of separate me’s just gets repeated ad infinitum and it starts with questions like what do you want, what do you think/feel, your foot/hand etc.

Actual experience is just being, open awareness

So pure sensation can be experienced purely in its raw state or there can be all sorts of stories attached to it for added drama? What above love ?

Much love

Good morning,

So pure sensation can be experienced purely in its raw state or there can be all sorts of stories attached to it for added drama?

I don't think we're looking for drama. I think it happens when, in that disconnected selfing state, we feel fear or label something as fear.

What above love ?

Weill, what about it?

I like Ken Keyes ' definition.

Ken Keyes says that "I love you" means "when I am with you, I am in touch with the beautiful, loving, capable parts of myself." It means a lot of other things, too. There's a song about that.

https://youtu.be/4x7FtaaZo74?is=DYgB3UyGrH62_kTl


So, enough philosophy. Back to LOOKING.

#2. Yes, you can. There are 2 ways to answer this.

Can you please find 2 ways to answer this? One is the origin. When does it start? The other is what happens now to cause us to believe there's a"self? "

Loving

Hi Stacy,
it took ages to upload the last reply I sent you (site kept crashing) so the formatting was wrong and some parts were missing.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now. Can you please find 2 ways to answer this? One is the origin. When does it start? The other is what happens now to cause us to believe there's a"self? "

The origin of separate self. So as young children we have no sense of seperate self at all. Then adults begin to point to 'our' bodies, feelings, etc and the young child is encouraged to see themselves as seperate form others and everything else.
This sense of self that is pushed on the child is viewed by adults as a vital part of growing up and so the deep illusion/misidentification as a separate self begins.
We carry on believing in separate self because when sensations and thoughts arise, we mistake them as being 'ours', believing that they have come from 'our' minds. Every thought or emotion that is taken as 'real' gets layered on top of the original sensation and makes the illusion of separate self stronger. By stripping away and just 'seeing', the raw nowness is revealed and the sense of separation is seen through.

I hope I worded that in a way that makes sense

Much love

Yes, the site is being attacked by bots. It should pass.

Be sure to save a copy before posting, so you don't lose your work.

That's a good answer.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Even if it faded, what may have shown you there's no "self?"

Loving,

Hi Stacy,

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Even if it faded, what may have shown you there's no "self

It built over the exercises, each one made it clearer but the real push was knowing that as a young child I existed just perfectly without a self!

Thank you and much love x

You're welcome.

Please assemble all of your answers in one Reply, USING QUOTE so we can share them with other guides.

Loving,

Hi Stacy,

apologies for the delay, life got very busy for a few days.

Ok so here goes with the answering of the questions.....

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No ! Never was, never will be. It only feels like a seperate self when the illusion is not seen through.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The origin of separate self. So as young children we have no sense of seperate self at all. Then adults begin to point to 'our' bodies, feelings, etc and the young child is encouraged to see themselves as seperate form others and everything else.
This sense of self that is pushed on the child is viewed by adults as a vital part of growing up and so the deep illusion/misidentification as a separate self begins.
We carry on believing in separate self because when sensations and thoughts arise, we mistake them as being 'ours', believing that they have come from 'our' minds. Every thought or emotion that is taken as 'real' gets layered on top of the original sensation and makes the illusion of separate self stronger. By stripping away and just 'seeing', the raw nowness is revealed and the sense of separation is seen through.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels kind of obvious now, nothing special which is very weird. Before the dialogue I was seeking something with a passion, now there is no seeking at all, life is much more enjoyable and the flow is fun. But it also feels like home !

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It all built up with the exercises in actual experience and looking, they are very effective! Realising how blissed I was as a child before the 'me' complex grew was also a major tipping point.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decision doesn’t belong to a 'me' so it seems like a roll of the dice almost, a way to add infinitely more options and more variety to a lifes journey. As simple as 'do I walk down to the stream or up the hill today or do I stay at home?' It doesnt seem to matter either way.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Tricky, intention implies a future action so it can be tangled up with the illusion of a 'me' or it can be simply a task that shall be done at some point in 'time'.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Free will, hmm, there seem to be infinite possibilities and infinite choices so free will exists in the form of choice but it isn’t 'my' will or choice at all.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

I think this was answered above

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control, this is a big one! It is refreshing and relaxing to know that 'i' have no control over anything at all ! Everything just gets on being and appearing with or without a 'me'.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

No idea what makes things happen but something is having fun creating ! I have experienced geometry behind or underneath the scenes of life many times so I suspect there is some kind of framework on which happening is created? It doesn’t seem that important to be honest but it sure is beautiful.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Nothing in reality but I have a deep sense of love to others and to just love.

6) Anything to add?

Just that I would love to talk with others and keep exploring this. Also to say thank you with deep love and gratitude for your help.

xxx

Beautiful. Your answers will be shared with other guides who may have questions.

Meanwhile. here are some resources:

One model for looking at this is called Ten Fetters. At LU we only cover the first 3. There are groups outside of LU. some led by LU guides. that take it further.

Here is a list of the Fetters;:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

and some resources:

Christiana Michelberger

https://findingawakening.com/about/

Vince Shubert

Weekly Free Meetup Times (Sydney, Australia time):
Saturday 9 pm,
Monday 6 am (for paid subscribers - recording only available to attendees)
Wednesday 4 pm (recorded and published on YouTube)
Friday 7 am (recording only available to attendees)
📍Check your local time: www.worldtimebuddy.com

⏱ Countdown timer for the next meeting on: www.wakingupwithvince.com (scroll down)

🧭 It’s always the same Zoom link; you can arrive late or leave early.

Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

Vince also has a YouTube Channel


Todd & Pernille Lent Damore (currently moving to Spain)

Yes, we still have a monthly Inquiry Group that's free, and that they are welcome to join. There's a YouTube channel, as well.

They also have our Discord community which is free too.

Write to:

unfetteredmindfulness@gmail.com

Loving,

Thank you so much Stacy,
deepest love

No one had questions.

Good work. Our conversation here is complete. There are many support meetings. Here are a few to get you started.

Write to:

vinceschubert@gmail.com

unfetteredmindfulness@gmail.com

admin@ilonaciunaite.com

Loving,

Thank you so much Stacy,

I would love to help others by guiding too, maybe when everything has settled within a bit more. Can I still reach you here at any point in the future?

Much love

Yes, please. That would be great. We can always use more guides.

Enjoy