The Gate

ls empty. Like nothing exists. Thoughts arise that everything is story, nothing matters.
The feeling is empty or like nothing.
Pointlessness.

Yes. All true. That's why we call it "liberation."

Are you attending Vince's groups? They can be helpful. I know they have talked about this nihilism that can come up. His meetings are long, but you can come & go as you please. Write to Vince for a current schedule. He's in Australia.

vinceschubert@gmail.com

Anyway, you're free to do whatever comes up if all of the above is true.

Can you see that?

Loving,

Anyway, you're free to do whatever comes up if all of the above is true.

Can you see that?

It feels like a lot if investigation is needed, in a similar process to the apple.

I can't help but think that there is a lot of unravelling to do for me.

I have emailed Vince, thanks
Mike

I can't help but think that there is a lot of unravelling to do for me.

There is for all of us.

If you follow the 10 Fetters model, we only cover the first 3 here. Usually people do those & then may move on to other groups.

Loving,

Are you still there?

Loving

Hi
Yes
Still here

I'm glad I checked

Wasn't sure of wed finished

Thanks

We have some traditional checkpoint questions. Please reply to these & your replies will be shared with other guides who may have questions.

One at a time, please.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

Hi
I dont think I am ready yet for these questions.

I can see that my senses are individual experiences, and that my brain stitches them together to create a narrative, which includes meaning, past, present and future.

I can see that I bring together the sight, sounds, taste and feel for the concept of apple. But the apple concept is just a concept and not constant.

In a similar vain, I understand how I bring sensations and epxeriences together to create my identity of self. But with my self, there is a feeling of me, a point of view, a central perspective from which other experiences can be drawn,

An apple can feel smooth, or slightly rough, but I still dont doubt that it is an apple. But I could be mistaken, it might be a quince or a pear. I know this isn'r really the point, because even if it was an apple. There is no apple.

With the feeling of self, this can be different, I can feel happy and content, or excited. I can feel lonely, separated,, depressed. What is it that makes it my own. These are just feelings being felt by who or what? The receiver. This is my sense of self. That who receives the sensations, and experiences each experience.

You're right That is all just thinking. There are more pointers we can do.

We are looking for a shift in perception. Maybe subtle & gradual but you will know. You can read examples in the downloadable book here on this site Gateless Gate crashers.

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving

I found this activity challenging. I have been trying this for a couple of days.

How is the movement controlled?

I have no idea.

Does a thought control it?

The thought seems to take my attention to the action, but not driving the action

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No
Thoughts come and go. A thought might pop in to comment on progress, or comes in to stop the action.
"That's enough now"

But i cannot witness a primary controller

I thought might guide. Like a sailor adjusting the sails to meet the wind. As i move the hand, the thtought might decide to turn it around and vary the motion. But the thought is not doing the motion. It seems to be done by magic.

But had i not had the instruction from you, and then the proceeding thought, i wouldn't have been doing the action, so this is confusing to me.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?
Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Decisions pop up without warning. But then thoughts stitch together to form a narrative.
But on closer inspection, there seems to be no source for decisions.

I notice there is an automation. Like driving by itself. Thoughts pop up, that allow me to take the steering wheel and adjust the direction and temp, but soon my attention goes elsewhere and the automated action continues without my control.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Yes, but it pops up, and then dissappears. Like a child using a toy steering wheeling in a real car is under the illusion that they are driving.
So yes, but no. It seems like there is a separate individual for a time, but then this reveals itself to be illusory, and the automated action continues as always.

Okay, good.

"Self" is only the tight feeling of lying with thoughts & labels following after. You seem to be getting that.

Keep LOOKING,

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c?si=TZwuFEst-7Hsadpu

Loving,