The Gate

Good morning Elad,

Well imagine a human with no capacity to differentiate what is - conventionally - their feelings and thoughts versus others. That would be pretty problematic right? Actually quite a lot of mental imbalances have to do with distortions around this capacity for differentiation. Point being: WE ARE NOT LOOKING TO GET RED OF THE SENSE OF SELF. We are just seeing that this thinking/orienting pattern is one more expression of and within nature/the mystery/the non-dual. Not in control of, created by, or owned by any truly separate self.

Okay, I see how the sense of self will still be there. I never mind the sense of self when the emotions feel good. I only start to mind the sense of self when I dislike the emotions, feelings, or feel like life should be different than it is. I do get disappointed with myself when I forget to look that there is no one in control or owned by a truly separate self. I can see this quite a bit but not always. Is the key to just keep looking for an owner of the emotions, feelings, discomfort? It feels like this is just one thought away. One thought that these feelings are mine and I have some control over them vs they just are part of life. I'm not sure if I am on the right track here or if I have veered off course.

Happy Wednesday:-)

Sincerely,
Amy

Again, on a conventional level it is good you know you can choose to have ice cream or a beer and control lifting the arm, and also know you cannot choose between flying backwards or forwards through the power of thought and do not control to defy gravity. And if you could not think about what you want to do tomorrow and have a conversation about it, how would that go in normal life?

It is not about not thinking in terms of control, choice, will, all the normal things.

It is about seeing clearly that ultimately there is no separate self doing or having or owning or choosing any of it. That any self experience only is there within a pattern of thinking, that is more or less useful in the moment, never reality itself.

Can you see this clearly NOW?

And is it clear that any story of anyone who "always sees this" is a story of a permanent self?

Exactly as you saw, and saw well, often the pull to see through the selfing, is when the story causes suffering. So there is a natural process of orienting beyond the fiction of self when it is helpful, and there is "normal thinking" when that is helpful and/or no strong pull to question it.

Maybe it can be good to re-read this section, cause many times expectations can keep doubt going.....

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/

Again, on a conventional level it is good you know you can choose to have ice cream or a beer and control lifting the arm, and also know you cannot choose between flying backwards or forwards through the power of thought and do not control to defy gravity. And if you could not think about what you want to do tomorrow and have a conversation about it, how would that go in normal life?

It is not about not thinking in terms of control, choice, will, all the normal things.

It is about seeing clearly that ultimately there is no separate self doing or having or owning or choosing any of it. That any self experience only is there within a pattern of thinking, that is more or less useful in the moment, never reality itself.

Can you see this clearly NOW?

And is it clear that any story of anyone who "always sees this" is a story of a permanent self?

Exactly as you saw, and saw well, often the pull to see through the selfing, is when the story causes suffering. So there is a natural process of orienting beyond the fiction of self when it is helpful, and there is "normal thinking" when that is helpful and/or no strong pull to question it.

Maybe it can be good to re-read this section, cause many times expectations can keep doubt going.....

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/

Ps. The point with all of the above is not to generate belief that there is no self, belief alone is not liberating. The point is this: When a moment comes where you actually believe and feel there is a real separate self there, look where is it, what is it? Can it be found in direct experience or is it just an idiosyncratic belief of the moment? Do this until there is no doubt.

Good morning Elad,

I have thought about writing you so many times. I've composed several responses to you in my head. But they kept changing, morphing, and when I thought I had a story to tell you, it just didn't seem real. At one point, I thought I should compose you a poem to express how I was feeling. Which really makes me laugh. When have I ever communicated in poetry?

So, I will do my best to explain what has happened since you last wrote me.

When you suggested that I go back and read the liberation unleashed faq, it triggered these thoughts....and this is so hard to put into words because it felt like it was a one second thought. The thoughts go something like this. Oh, maybe he thinks I haven't been a good student here, that I am just a flighty, whiney, complaining girl with no real substance to her and that I didn't pay close attention to the assignment of reading the faq in the first place. That's not who I am!! I have worked my whole life to fight against BEING that. But my feeling/judgement/interpretation of what you wrote me in that moment introduced some doubt about who I thought I was. I know Elad is kind and smart and is doing this out of the goodness of his heart. Maybe he is right. Perhaps that is a part of who I am. Both ideas about myself seemed to be both true and not true. And I could see that who I thought I was and doubt about who I might be were no different. Just thoughts.

Then I felt I could see it everywhere. No thought about me seemed to bind me. I kept feeling into the body when the various thoughts about me/suffering/happiness came up. All I could see was the flow of life. That's when I wanted to write you a poem, lol. To express what? I'm not even sure. It feels like nothingness, every-thingness. To try and describe it seems to make it farther away.

That is where I am right now.

I hope you are going to have a relaxing weekend filled with joy:-)

With much gratitude,
Amy

Wonderful! This is spot on. So, is there a separate self, a controller, someone to be responsible or not be responsible anywhere?

Good morning Elad,

It has taken me a week to think about what I was going to write to you and to really look at the answer to the question below. In some ways I wanted to just leave things alone. Allow everything to be just as it is for a while. Then, I wanted to keep seeing truth again and again in many places. It made me giggle a bit how I have lived my life always seeking something, always something. And now, the idea is just so funny to me. I know this will keep unfolding and I am glad for that.

So, is there a separate self, a controller, someone to be responsible or not be responsible anywhere?

No, there is no separate self or controller. In my life I have tried to control everything, everything!! And it is just so laughable that we look at reality and "backwards extrapolate" a controller. But, I see people do it all the time. And I did it too.

The question of is there someone to be responsible or not responsible anywhere? This has been a question on my mind a lot. There is not someone to be responsible, but I keep looking for what feels like my responsibility. Every thought I had about responsibility was just that-- a thought that came up due to previous conditioning and based on previous causes and conditions. To act in a vaccuum is not possible. I still kind of like the idea that I have some responsibility. Don't laugh. But it is a wisp of feeling/thought and it is allowed for what it is. Part of the play we are apparently here to act in and participate in.

Elad, you are so dear to me. I want to express my sincere gratitude. Thank you for taking the time to really help me see truth and see through the illusion. And what an illusion!

With much love and appreciation,
Amy

Dear Amy! Sounds to me like the gateless gate has been non-crossed-crossed ;)

The question of is there someone to be responsible or not responsible anywhere? This has been a question on my mind a lot. There is not someone to be responsible, but I keep looking for what feels like my responsibility. Every thought I had about responsibility was just that-- a thought that came up due to previous conditioning and based on previous causes and conditions. To act in a vaccuum is not possible. I still kind of like the idea that I have some responsibility. Don't laugh. But it is a wisp of feeling/thought and it is allowed for what it is. Part of the play we are apparently here to act in and participate in.

How does this sound to you: Feelings of care and responsibility in the conventional sense arise without a real separate self to control it or do it? We still want to be there for our friends and family, to behave like a decent person. And no one is producing or efforting this heartfulness into existence. Does that resonate?


At this point we normally ask a series of questions to check if anything can further clarify and after that process "graduate LU". I think it might be time for that...

Yes, that does resonate with me.

And yes, I’m ready for the questions:-)

Sincerely,
Amy

Beautifu! Below are the questions - your answers might bring up follow up questions from me. If I have no follow up questions, three other guides will review also. Once there is no more follow up questions from any of them "LU is graduated" 🙃

After that, we will talk about "after LU", I'll share some resources and posiilbities to connect with "like-minded", etc.


Please answer all of the following questions in one message and make sure that you copy each question before the answer so it is easy to connect Q's & A's. Take as much time as you wish, use it as an opportunity to look freshly.




1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?



2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.



3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue?



4) What was the moment(s) where clarity clicked; describe what happened.



5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control (separately).



6) What makes things happen? How does it work?



7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.



8) Anything to add?

Hey Amy, how are things moving? Just checking in.

Good morning Elad,

I'm so sorry- I missed your last message to me. I didn't see it! Life has been busy and I wanted to take some time to think about all of the questions and answer authentically. So here goes....

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there is no separate entity. There never was.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of the separate self seems to start in thought. I'm not sure when it starts- at some early age the idea that we are separate from our environment and life in general- that there is a world "out there" that we are experiencing "in here" and then separation is believed to exist. It is only a wisp of a thought. An idea or concept that can be believed or not. But it is only a concept, a map....it cannot be found.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue?

It feels very light and freeing to see this. Before we started this dialogue I was trying to wrangle and control something. I felt like I was always at odds with this mysterious separate self. Now I can see that I was trying to control something that does not even exist. It makes me want to laugh and laugh at the absurdity and futility of trying to control something that does not exist. I call it "crazy-making".

4) What was the moment(s) where clarity clicked; describe what happened.

I have been doing inquiry for a little over a year. Really trying to look intently but seemingly getting nowhere. Having you a guide Elad was enormously helpful. I think of it like the "lab" associated with coursework. I could study all I wanted but I had to engage in order to experience what needed to be seen. At one point in the discussion, I felt like there was this challenge to me and my sincerity (though as I read back over the post, I really don't see that at all. lol). It made me question who I believed myself to be and started loosening the tight grip of a ME. I decided to relax the effort of inquiry, feeling like maybe I am doing this for the "wrong reasons" etc. And a couple of days later, the inquiry was back, front and center and had arrived all on it's own seemingly. It was relentless... some tipping point had been reached and I couldn't put it down. You had recommended a video in one of your other dialogues that linked to Paul and Vince Shubert and while watching that, I could suddenly see that the act of seeking contains within it an entire built world of a self "separate and apart" that can get something sometime in the future, and when is it not now? Never! Everything is always NOW. So funny, just really really funny that we do this to ourselves. And sad too.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control (separately).

Decision just happens. We then seem to claim that it was me that made the decision. There really is no free will, choice or control separate from life. All of these things are based on previous conditions. Intention is also part of this as well. The development of an intention is also due to previous causes and conditions- all of which we have not control over.

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

I'm not sure what makes things happen- seemly an entire series of previous conditions.

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

I am not responsible for anything, because there is no me separate from life. I still like to believe that there is personal responsibility but I can see that the belief is only because of previous conditioning.

Elad, I really can't thank you enough for being willing to help me. You are blessing in my life. I have so much gratitude for you and your work with me.

Sincerely,
Amy

Dear Amy,

Thank you for this beautiful and deep sharing. No sense of needing to ask more questions arise here. I will now let some other guides look and ask questions if they have them. I will get back to you soon, might take a day, might take a few.

Dear Amy,

There other guides looked and had no further questions, meaning you have "graduated LU" 🙃

It's been a real joy to do this process with you. You are always welcome to write again on this thread if questions come up, or to write my email eladexplore1111@gmail.com. Also welcome to ask, if you want more recommendations on options to meet like-minded, get support, etc.

There other -> three other