?

[poppyseed]

Hi Chal
You’re describing things very clearly, and it’s good that you’re beginning to see how easily thoughts take credit for what’s already unfolding.

Q. What do you think about repeatedly saying to oneself, “This is just happening”? For example, using it as a brief reminder instead of engaging in a longer inquiry, at least when there isn’t time for extended reflection. Could the mind co-opt this intention to point in a non-dual direction, given its brevity?

Use it only if it helps you relax back into the moment, not as a test or mantra. The phrase itself isn’t magic—it’s the pause that matters. Let it be a gentle reminder to notice simple, present details: the contact of your feet on the floor, breath moving, sounds in the room.
If the mind turns it into a new project (“Am I doing it right? Am I seeing non-duality?”), smile and come back to one sensation. You don’t need to manage what’s happening; just keep "letting" life feel ordinary and immediate.

I planned to go into town to pick up a few things from the store. As I was about to leave, I noticed how quiet the evening was and thoughts arose that were about how nice it would be to walk in the dark, on the quiet dirt road outside my home instead. That impulse just appeared with no clear reason. The decision appeared to came from many conditions, like the weather, the time of day, the distance to the store, memories of how calm night walks feel, the fact that I wasn’t out of groceries after all. If any of these were different (if it were raining, if I were hungry) I guess the outcome would’ve changed. The conditions were outside my control. Thought later said, “I decided to walk instead, it was a good choice and I’m happy to have done that instead.” But really, the walk simply happened. With no chooser or decision-maker.

I just wanted an example of a decision that you would normally consider that you’ve made. The point was to look entirely in thought content where cause and effect “live” and see that even there there’s no “you” making a decision. It was just one event leading to another, leading to another, with “actions” based on previous conditioning. The thought “decision is made” is layered on top of other thoughts/beliefs/descriptions of what has happened before. Why does the wind blow? It just blows. Yes we can say it happens as a result of previous events but there’s no entity “wind” that does the blowing. There is no wind that decides to blow. It’s just language.
What is “moving of the hands” in DE? We’ve seen that it’s just a sensation, labelled “hands moving” + colour/shape labelled “hands moving” (cup of coffee example).
So, what makes the sensations to appear? What makes seeing to appear? LOOK! Is there anything that causes anything to appear? Do cause and effect exist outside of thought content?
Thought comes to describe that things are happening and why they are happening, but in DE things are just happening. Is the description/explanation/label needed for things to happen?

Life has taken on a subtly different flavour these past few days. Almost like things are in a kind of slow-mo. Like the relationship to time feels a bit different. Although liberation isn’t about benefits, I can’t help but appreciate that life feels lighter and different:)

Awesome stuff! So let's review where we are at with the following questions.
What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living. What changes? What stays the same?
What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?
Is seeking still going on?
Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?
Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?
We can look into time, memories, others (you didn’t report your insights from the nature walk), or whatever else might still be there…
Love
Rali

[cha0101]

Use it only if it helps you relax back into the moment, not as a test or mantra. The phrase itself isn’t magic—it’s the pause that matters. Let it be a gentle reminder to notice simple, present details: the contact of your feet on the floor, breath moving, sounds in the room. If the mind turns it into a new project (“Am I doing it right? Am I seeing non-duality?”), smile and come back to one sensation. You don’t need to manage what’s happening; just keep "letting" life feel ordinary and immediate.

Ok yes, that’s great."Ordinary and immediate" (this sounds like music lol)

I just wanted an example of a decision that you would normally consider that you’ve made. The point was to look entirely in thought content where cause and effect “live” and see that even there there’s no “you” making a decision. It was just one event leading to another, leading to another, with “actions” based on previous conditioning. The thought “decision is made” is layered on top of other thoughts/beliefs/descriptions of what has happened before. Why does the wind blow? It just blows. Yes we can say it happens as a result of previous events but there’s no entity “wind” that does the blowing. There is no wind that decides to blow. It’s just language.

I’m reading this over and over. I get it, and sense it etc. But because it encapsulates everything that has been pointed to, it’s almost making my brain vacuous, when it’s all together. It coming along though lol

I just wanted an example of a decision that you would normally consider that you’ve made. The point was to look entirely in thought content where cause and effect “live” and see that even there there’s no “you” making a decision.

Okay, so noticing here that I’d normally say, I changed my mind and decided to go for a walk instead of getting in the car.
And also noticing what is actually happening is just the DE. things arise on their own. The keys are set down, the legs move in another direction, a thought appears suggesting autonomy and choice. All arising together, just appearing.

Why does the wind blow? It just blows. Yes we can say it happens as a result of previous events but there’s no entity “wind” that does the blowing. There is no wind that decides to blow. It’s just language.

Yes, ok thank you. Again untangling the the layers of thought. “The wind blowing” is just language and what’s DE is the immediate sensing — the felt movement, sound, and touch that gets labelled as ‘wind’.

What is “moving of the hands” in DE? We’ve seen that it’s just a sensation, labelled “hands moving” + colour/shape labelled “hands moving” (cup of coffee example).

The ‘moving of the hands’ is a thought. There are sensations and visuals appearing. There’s sensations of what is called movement. Also shapes or colors in the visual field. Only the thoughts say ‘hands are moving’

So, what makes the sensations to appear? What makes seeing to appear? LOOK! Is there anything that causes anything to appear? Do cause and effect exist outside of thought content?

I really love this — especially the “LOOK!” It’s like a snap out of fogginess that keeps descending again and again.
There really isn’t anything obvious or ‘there’, that is making sensations appear. When looking for the seer, the one who feels the sensations, there isn’t anyone there. Also no cause to be found making anything happen. Just appearing. It feels nice to settle into this, but the mind keeps reaching.

Thought comes to describe that things are happening and why they are happening, but in DE things are just happening. Is the description/explanation/label needed for things to happen?

No, the description, explanation, or label is empty — just thought. Thought arises, and within it there’s noticing of things happening, including the thought that says something is responsible, like an agent or a propellant.

Awesome stuff! So let's review where we are at with the following questions.
What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living. What changes? What stays the same?

The biggest difference is that (sometimes, maybe often) a thought can come along and just feel like something passing. Not like something that shows me who I am, or who others are. What’s the same is the same type of thoughts come along. But they don’t get chomped on, like gripped, and carried along, with increasing momentum lol

What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?

The physical sensations in the body are experienced as more fluid. Open. Like I breathe deeper and more easily. I have found that judging often drops away. Where I half expect to contract at something seen, or heard, or felt, .. nothing much happens. I wait for it, but then the old reactions don’t show up in the same way a lot of the time.

Is seeking still going on?

It’s hard to say. I want to say no, at least compared to the deep, restless seeking or the old recurring existential uncertainty (I kinda want to say pain, rather than uncertainly, but without seeming too dramatic!) that was present in my experience. So I want to say no, only because the terrain does feel very different than before. But I’m probably knee deep in seeking, but it’s more subtle I guess.

Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

Not that comes to mind at the moment.

Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

A big fat yes :)

— We can look into time, memories, others (you didn’t report your insights from the nature walk), or whatever else might still be there…

Ok, so I really enjoy the sensation in my chest/heart, when bringing to mind things I love, like memories, or people I love (essentially thinking about them), in order to get a feeling of warmth and appreciation. I know these things/thoughts are just appearing. But it feels like I’m orientating to them.

Then the mind comes in and says ‘you’re thinking’. There is a mild state of not knowing what to do. As if I could do something anyway. These moments can feel like little short-circuits. Is there a pointer or understanding or way to look at this to unhook from whatever is snagging here? that could make things more smooth? Maybe that even that 'un-smoothness' is just a thought. Nothing is really un-smooth at all :)

Also, another question: I know there’s a difference between looking at a painting of a sunset or an actual sunset, and simply imagining or recalling a memory of one. Yet both can evoke a similar sensation in the body. When either experience is released, there’s just the quiet pause that follows. There is a nice stillness after the seeing, either in the mind or in DE. I think I’m not wanting to lose how memory and thoughts can bring positive feelings.

I hope that makes sense. I realize some of the details and questions here at the end are a bit mixed up!

Thank you Rali, in great appreciation :)

Chal

[poppyseed]

Hi Chal

Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

A big fat yes :)

It’s hard to say. I want to say no, at least compared to the deep, restless seeking or the old recurring existential uncertainty (I kinda want to say pain, rather than uncertainly, but without seeming too dramatic!) that was present in my experience. So I want to say no, only because the terrain does feel very different than before. But I’m probably knee deep in seeking, but it’s more subtle I guess.

Awesome!! You don’t have to work out whether seeking is gone or still here. The very question “Am I still seeking?” is another thought appearing. What could possibly seeking be in DE? There’s no one left to awaken further—but conditioning (thought) still plays itself out. Now, notice what comes next. Not as something to seek, but as what naturally unfolds when the illusion of “someone” is gone.
See that it, too, is just part of what’s happening right now—no more or less meaningful than a birdcall or a breath. When the impulse to measure progress shows up, treat it the same way you’ve been treating sensations and sounds: notice it, let it pass, feel the next moment. What matters is the ordinary ease that’s already present when you’re not checking. Keep noticing that space—while you eat, walk, or talk—and let life unfold from there.

Ok, so I really enjoy the sensation in my chest/heart, when bringing to mind things I love, like memories, or people I love (essentially thinking about them), in order to get a feeling of warmth and appreciation. I know these things/thoughts are just appearing. But it feels like I’m orientating to them.

You’re seeing clearly that everything—thoughts, sensations, emotions, memories—simply appears. That includes warmth, love, and the little “short-circuits” of not-knowing. They don’t need to be removed or “unsnagged.” Let them be felt as more texture in what’s happening.
When warmth arises while remembering someone or something you love, notice that it’s not dependent on the image or the memory; it’s just a body-sensation of "connection". Let the memory/description fade and stay with the simple warmth itself. It’s still here, part of ordinary life.
When there’s a moment of not-knowing what to do, try meeting it the same way: feel the breath, the chest, the sounds around you. The mind’s comment “I don’t know” is another sound appearing. Nothing has to become smooth—everything already belongs.
You don’t lose the human colour of things; you just see that it’s all part of the same movement. Keep noticing the everyday details—touch, light, sounds—and let that simplicity keep grounding the insights you’ve seen.
Let’s look at memories in more detail:
Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought. Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it. Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly?
What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?
WHEN does the future thought appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?
Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?

You can’t have memories if you have no timeline. There is also a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Love
Rali

[cha0101]

Hello Rali,
Hoping you are having a great week! Thanks for your questions and pointers. Always feels like 'time' slows down during these moments of reading and responding. Very surreal. And quite fun :)

The very question “Am I still seeking?” is another thought appearing. What could possibly seeking be in DE? There’s no one left to awaken further—but conditioning (thought) still plays itself out. Now, notice what comes next. Not as something to seek, but as what naturally unfolds when the illusion of “someone” is gone.

That’s so nicely said, “what could possibly be seeking in DE?” There is a lightness about it. Like ‘of course’ that’s the way it always was, but now it’s simply noticed. Nothing could possibly be seeking, only thoughts saying so.

See that it, too, is just part of what’s happening right now—no more or less meaningful than a birdcall or a breath. When the impulse to measure progress shows up, treat it the same way you’ve been treating sensations and sounds: notice it, let it pass, feel the next moment.

Just noticing, remembering to notice. “Feel the next moment” saying this feels like it is giving permission to stay in a flow of DE. Even though there is no-one to give the permission, and no-one to give it to lol

What matters is the ordinary ease that’s already present when you’re not checking. Keep noticing that space—while you eat, walk, or talk—and let life unfold from there.

Walking and eating — these things are more fluid and unbroken, not as choppy as previously. With talking however, there is an opposite shift. Somehow even while thoughts, when alone, often have a more peaceful cadence, when talking to others there is a hyper-activity that arises. It feels like an attempt to hide some kind of change that has occurred inside. As if someone spots it, it might disappear. Did you find that there was a slight shyness or something, related to the way in which your perception changed, especially in the case it being detected?

You’re seeing clearly that everything—thoughts, sensations, emotions, memories—simply appears. That includes warmth, love, and the little “short-circuits” of not-knowing. They don’t need to be removed or “unsnagged.” Let them be felt as more texture in what’s happening.

Ok thank you. “Let them be felt as more texture in what’s happening”. It’s becoming clearer that, deep down, there was a hidden belief that no-self, non-duality, or stages of liberation would somehow lead to blandness or coolness — a loss of warmth, as if that were the price to pay. There weren’t any real examples of this, only thoughts and beliefs. There are so many hidden layers, thoughts, and subtle activities lol

When warmth arises while remembering someone or something you love, notice that it’s not dependent on the image or the memory; it’s just a body-sensation of "connection". Let the memory/description fade and stay with the simple warmth itself. It’s still here, part of ordinary life.

Ok, yes, that’s a great pointer, to let an image fade and stay with the sensation. It’s so natural. Thank you.
This is still a bit of a challenge, even though it simply couldn’t be otherwise: “When warmth arises while remembering someone or something you love, notice that it’s not dependent on the image or the memory”. The mechanics of it are understood. But there is resistance. So just noticing the resistance is just a part of what is arising? Similar to what you’ve said before, that noticing what is happening is no more or less meaningful than a birdcall or a breath. Or that the mind’s comments are just things appearing.

When there’s a moment of not-knowing what to do, try meeting it the same way: feel the breath, the chest, the sounds around you.

So simple! It’s easy to overlook, until it becomes habitual. Even ‘learning’ or ‘progressing’ is a lovely unfolding rather than so much effort.

Let’s look at memories in more detail:
Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought. Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it. Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly?
What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

This is becoming more clear! Memories, time, space, distance — not what they seem :)
A memory is just arising in the mind, a thought of a story that says it happened another time.
It is made of thoughts appearing.
The memory appears the moment it appears, just in the moment is arises.
Both general thoughts and a memory thought are the same, they just ‘say’ different things that make them seem different.

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?
WHEN does the future thought appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?
Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?

The same as any thought, different only in what the thought suggests.
Only now.
The exact difference is the content of the thought, nothing else.
It’s not known, it’s just a thought arising in the moment, about the illusion of the future.
Only the direction of the story the thought is relaying, as one points to a ‘past’, and the other points forward.
*hmmm I don’t know. There seems to be a different (the direction the thought is pointing to), but otherwise I’m not sure here. Maybe there is another thought that is saying it’s different lol

The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time

That’s an interesting point. It does seem that way. I hadn’t really looked at it that directly before.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

1 Movement, ‘now’ travelling along, is just another thought appearing now.
2 Only a thought saying, “that was then, this is now.”
3 No direct experience, the idea of an event “following” is a thought.
4 It isn’t moving.
5 No, it’s impossible to find a point where it began
6 It doesn’t last, it just is.
7 Nowhere, there is no beginning and no end.
8 Only thought could say it’s in the past, there is no moving of time.
9 It is a thought, that says ‘past’
10 There are only thoughts about time.


These time questions are so odd to reflect on for some reason. Unsettling, this time territory lol, when looked at more closely. But so good to face lol. Thank you Rali.


Much gratitude,
Chal


PS I meant to add these practices each time. Just adding them to keep the habit and practice. It’s been the most helpful exercise.


Personal practice notes

Folding laundry

Seeing soft colors of fabric = colour (seeing)

Hearing rustle of the material = sound (hearing)

Feeling the different textures = sensation (feeling)

Smelling clean scent = smell (smelling)

Thought “I like the order that comes after disorder” = thought (thinking)

Reading a book at night

Seeing words come through the electronic reader = colour (seeing)

Hearing faint sounds outside = sound (hearing)

Feeling weight of device-book in hands = sensation (feeling)

Smelling the old familiar chair = smell (smelling)

Thought “this is so interesting, pulls me in” = thought (thinking)

Parked on a side road

Seeing glow of other car’s brake lights = colour (seeing)

Hearing engine idle = sound (hearing)

Feeling the seat of the car = sensation (feeling)

Smelling faint exhaust = smell (smelling)

Thought “almost time to go” = thought (thinking)

Lying in bed before sleep

Seeing a sliver of the moon through the window = colour (seeing)

Hearing background noises from the other room = sound (hearing)

Feeling the air from the window on my arms = sensation (feeling)

Smelling fresh sheets = smell (smelling)

Thought “the day is done” = thought (thinking)

[poppyseed]

Hi Chal,

With talking however, there is an opposite shift. Somehow even while thoughts, when alone, often have a more peaceful cadence, when talking to others there is a hyper-activity that arises. It feels like an attempt to hide some kind of change that has occurred inside. As if someone spots it, it might disappear. Did you find that there was a slight shyness or something, related to the way in which your perception changed, especially in the case it being detected?

What you describe is very natural. When perception shifts, the “social self” — that old reflex of wanting to appear “normal” or “in control” — can stir up extra mental noise. It’s not that something real needs protecting; it’s simply a familiar energetic pattern trying to re-establish itself. Nothing has gone wrong. When that hyper-activity or shyness shows up, pause for half a breath, feel the contact of the feet or the movement of the breath, and let the sounds and sensations of the conversation return to DE. Ordinary grounding is enough — there’s no need to hide or fix anything.

The mechanics of it are understood. But there is resistance. So just noticing the resistance is just a part of what is arising? Similar to what you’ve said before, that noticing what is happening is no more or less meaningful than a birdcall or a breath. Or that the mind’s comments are just things appearing.

About the warmth that arises when remembering someone or something you love — yes, that’s beautifully seen. The warmth isn’t actually caused by the image or memory; it’s simply a sensation happening now. When a thought calls it “love,” or “connection,” or even “resistance,” that’s just more story appearing. What is resistance in DE? Is there any actual resistance in the sensation? Can you find anyone/anything IN the sensation itself, or BEHIND the sensation that is resisting? Now look at the thought that comes with it. Is there any actual resistance in the word itself?
The label “resistance” itself is not something found in direct experience; it’s a thought describing a collection of sensations (tightness, pressure, vibration, etc. - even these are labels). Before the label, there is only raw aliveness — simple texture appearing and moving on its own.
So, rather than trying to remove or interpret resistance, look at what’s truly here before the word appears. Usually, it’s just sensation, already arising and dissolving effortlessly. This is how conditioning unwinds — not by control, but by gentle seeing.

The same applies when looking into memory and time.

These time questions are so odd to reflect on for some reason. Unsettling, this time territory lol, when looked at more closely. But so good to face lol. Thank you Rali.

What you’re noticing about time and memory is exactly how it appears when you start looking closely: they’re just thoughts with different stories. It’s normal that this feels a little unsettling; the familiar mental scaffolding of “before, after, next” loosens, and the mind doesn’t yet know what to hold onto. Nothing’s wrong—that unease is just another sensation happening now. Just remember the analogy with icons on your desktop. It really fits here.

A memory is only a present-moment thought containing images and words. It’s not something that “refers back” to another time — it simply appears now, made of the same substance as any thought. Likewise, thoughts about the future are just thoughts happening in this moment. The only difference between a “past” or “future” thought is the story each one tells. There’s no direct experience of time itself, only the idea of it.
When you look closely, the “present moment” doesn’t actually move along a line of time — it doesn’t begin, end, or become something else. What’s here has always been here, just changing in appearance/pattern. But even the idea of change is an illusion. If you look right now — not as philosophy but as this moment — can “change” be found anywhere?
There’s only immediacy. No before, no after. “Change” is a story that implies two points in time, but neither point can be located. To perceive change, thought first divides what’s seamless into “this” and “that,” “then” and “now.” Without that mental stitching, there’s just this. Even “appearance” doesn’t appear — it’s already the whole. What’s called “change” is simply thought commenting on this, the same way a movie frame describes action that isn’t happening in the film strip itself.
Can you see how the word change collapses when you try to find what’s changing, where, and from what to what?
It's like looking at a lava lamp. The wax may seem to change shape, and the shapes it seems to take may seem to be present one moment, and absent the next. But all that is known is the wax. Nothing actually changed and nothing was ever born or lost, although it may have seemed to. All that is known is experience - nothing can be added to it, nor taken away.
Time and change are one of the most challenging concepts to see through clearly. If the “time questions” ever feel dizzying, come back to something tangible: touch, breath, movement, or sound. Let those details remind you that life is already unfolding perfectly without needing to measure it in moments.

Let all of this remain very ordinary. Whether it’s warmth, resistance, memory, or conversation — all are simple expressions of the same seeing. Nothing stands outside of This.
You’re also describing the essence of practice beautifully in your daily notes: simple seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, thinking. Keep that rhythm going; it’s what keeps the insight connected to ordinary life.
You don’t need to fix or improve anything; just keep allowing the simplicity that’s already here to include every ordinary thing—laundry, reading, resting, walking. That’s how the seeing becomes lived.

Love
Rali

[cha0101]

Hi Rali,

What you describe is very natural. When perception shifts, the “social self” — that old reflex of wanting to appear “normal” or “in control” — can stir up extra mental noise.

This question might just be another way the mind tries to derail things — by slipping back into thought and pondering. Still, I do wonder why noise can sometimes feel like relief. A similar question came up when you wrote about ‘change,’ and used the example of movie frames. It seems like change — the movement of frames — can bring relief. It’s curious, why this is.
Over these recent weeks of noticing DE, the world is experienced as much richer than the old focus of moving-thought of course. Yet there is still noticing what is experienced as movement in DE, and this (at this point anyway) is where the interest is found — like watching leaves fall or water flow. Even the rich moments of ‘pauses’ are framed by the illusion of movement in DE.
You wrote about the familiar mental scaffolding of “before, after, next” loosening. Does this ever fully go away? The movement is nice, lava-lamp enjoyable :)

About the warmth that arises when remembering someone or something you love — yes, that’s beautifully seen. The warmth isn’t actually caused by the image or memory; it’s simply a sensation happening now. When a thought calls it “love,” or “connection,” or even “resistance,” that’s just more story appearing. What is resistance in DE? Is there any actual resistance in the sensation? Can you find anyone/anything IN the sensation itself, or BEHIND the sensation that is resisting? Now look at the thought that comes with it. Is there any actual resistance in the word itself?
The label “resistance” itself is not something found in direct experience; it’s a thought describing a collection of sensations (tightness, pressure, vibration, etc. - even these are labels). Before the label, there is only raw aliveness — simple texture appearing and moving on its own.
So, rather than trying to remove or interpret resistance, look at what’s truly here before the word appears. Usually, it’s just sensation, already arising and dissolving effortlessly. This is how conditioning unwinds — not by control, but by gentle seeing.

The labels are so interesting. It makes perfect sense. There actually isn’t resistance in DE. Nor in sensation. So interesting when these things get separated out, it’s all so simple.
There isn’t anyone or anything IN the sensation, or behind the sensation, nothing there to do the resisting. And the word resistance is empty. As are all words.
The way you described this here really simplified, or opened something up. Or maybe it’s detangled and dropped confusion away. Thank you so much for this.

and the mind doesn’t yet know what to hold onto.

Yes, this is exactly the thought, that feels like experience.

When you look closely, the “present moment” doesn’t actually move along a line of time — it doesn’t begin, end, or become something else. What’s here has always been here, just changing in appearance/pattern. But even the idea of change is an illusion. If you look right now — not as philosophy but as this moment — can “change” be found anywhere?
There’s only immediacy. No before, no after. “Change” is a story that implies two points in time, but neither point can be located. To perceive change, thought first divides what’s seamless into “this” and “that,” “then” and “now.” Without that mental stitching, there’s just this. Even “appearance” doesn’t appear — it’s already the whole. What’s called “change” is simply thought commenting on this, the same way a movie frame describes action that isn’t happening in the film strip itself.

In the present moment, there is no change to be found. To notice the unchanging, it does seem like the mind tries to have a stop-start rhythm, to notice the present moment. Once again, thoughts getting noisy, wanting to co-opt the question :) Or as you write, that “change” is simply thought commenting on This.

Can you see how the word change collapses when you try to find what’s changing, where, and from what to what?

Yes, I do get it, it makes sense. And it really couldn’t be any other way. About another point — you wrote, ‘this is how conditioning unwinds — not by control, but by gentle seeing.’ I’m glad you mentioned that, because it really applies here. Understanding it is one thing, but the direct experience of its truth doesn’t always open up right away. Holding it all lightly :)

simple seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, thinking. Keep that rhythm going; it’s what keeps the insight connected to ordinary life.

Thank you so much Rali.


In appreciation,
Chal

[poppyseed]

Hi Chal,
Beautifully written. Notice how even here, the mind keeps wanting to understand what’s already obvious.

This question might just be another way the mind tries to derail things — by slipping back into thought and pondering. Still, I do wonder why noise can sometimes feel like relief.

Look right there. Is it the noise itself that gives relief, or is it the small gap that follows it? The stillness that’s suddenly recognised when thought pauses - that moment of release isn’t caused by noise; it’s simply the natural ease that’s always here when nothing is being resisted.

It seems like change — the movement of frames — can bring relief. It’s curious, why this is.
Over these recent weeks of noticing DE, the world is experienced as much richer than the old focus of moving-thought of course. Yet there is still noticing what is experienced as movement in DE, and this (at this point anyway) is where the interest is found — like watching leaves fall or water flow. Even the rich moments of ‘pauses’ are framed by the illusion of movement in DE.

Movement is the same. The falling leaves, the flow of water, the breath rising and falling—these don’t prove change; they reveal immediacy. What’s actually seen is just shifting colour, sound, texture, happening now. The story of “before” and “after” is what creates the illusion of continuity. In direct experience there’s no frame being replaced—just one continuous field, alive and patterning itself.

You wrote about the familiar mental scaffolding of “before, after, next” loosening. Does this ever fully go away? The movement is nice, lava-lamp enjoyable :)

It’s not that it disappears; it’s that it loses reality - its emptiness is seen. You still see the movie, but the screen is no longer mistaken for a timeline. The lava-lamp flow can still be enjoyed—nothing wrong with it—but it’s known as appearance, not event.

The labels are so interesting. It makes perfect sense. There actually isn’t resistance in DE. Nor in sensation. So interesting when these things get separated out, it’s all so simple.
There isn’t anyone or anything IN the sensation, or behind the sensation, nothing there to do the resisting. And the word resistance is empty. As are all words.

Yes, you’re seeing clearly. In DE there’s no such thing. There are only sensations and then a thought about them that says “this is resistance.” That label creates the impression of struggle. Before the label, it’s just life moving. Nothing inside or behind the sensation doing anything. Even the thought “resistance” is empty—just sound, just shape, already dissolving.

In the present moment, there is no change to be found. To notice the unchanging, it does seem like the mind tries to have a stop-start rhythm, to notice the present moment. Once again, thoughts getting noisy, wanting to co-opt the question :) Or as you write, that “change” is simply thought commenting on This.

It is similar to movement - the same applies to change. When you try to find what’s changing—where, or from what to what—the whole concept collapses. Nothing actually moves from one thing to another; there are no “things.” It’s only thought comparing two mental snapshots and calling it “movement.” In reality there’s only seamless immediacy—no beginning, no end, not even stillness or motion as opposites.

Let the mind not know. That’s how conditioning softens—by gentle seeing, not control. When thought tries to measure, explain, or stabilise, just return to the ordinary rhythm: seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting, thinking. Let that be enough.

We have some checkpoint questions. Would you like to answer these?
Love
Rali

[cha0101]

Hello Rali!

Once again, thank you for the pointers. They are always good, but sometimes they hit home in such a way that the world feels slightly different, in such a welcomed way.

Look right there. Is it the noise itself that gives relief, or is it the small gap that follows it? The stillness that’s suddenly recognised when thought pauses - that moment of release isn’t caused by noise; it’s simply the natural ease that’s always here when nothing is being resisted.

Ok, right. That’s exactly it! The pause or gap is where the relief is. And it’s a relief because there's naturalness and ease. That solves that question, the misidentification of 'noise' lol

The falling leaves, the flow of water, the breath rising and falling—these don’t prove change; they reveal immediacy. What’s actually seen is just shifting colour, sound, texture, happening now. The story of “before” and “after” is what creates the illusion of continuity. In direct experience there’s no frame being replaced—just one continuous field, alive and patterning itself.

Yes, immediate sensations or DE, not proof of a past or future. I can see that. Experience but always now. While change is the layered thought. I really like the the example of comparing two mental snapshots (when you were talking about presence) and calling it “movement.”

I’ve got this on my desktop now lol:

In reality there’s only seamless immediacy — no beginning, no end, not even stillness or motion as opposites.

The lava-lamp flow can still be enjoyed—nothing wrong with it—but it’s known as appearance, not event.

I don’t quite know why it feels slightly hard to trust too much ‘enjoying’ direct experience. Maybe because enjoyment felt like part of the illusion — the thing that was keeping it so convincing. Funny how the mind creates beliefs lol

Yes, you’re seeing clearly. In DE there’s no such thing. There are only sensations and then a thought about them that says “this is resistance.” That label creates the impression of struggle. Before the label, it’s just life moving. Nothing inside or behind the sensation doing anything. Even the thought “resistance” is empty—just sound, just shape, already dissolving.

This is the most freeing thing, to see that resistance is just a thought. AND it’s empty. Dissolving. Truly peaceful. Thank you for this pointing.

Let the mind not know. That’s how conditioning softens—by gentle seeing, not control. When thought tries to measure, explain, or stabilise, just return to the ordinary rhythm: seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting, thinking. Let that be enough.

Yes, thank you. This is good. And enough.

We have some checkpoint questions. Would you like to answer these?

Yes please! :)

[poppyseed]

Hi Chal,
Beautiful. What you wrote carries that quiet ease that comes when thought finally relaxes its grip. You’re describing the “world” exactly as it is — simple, immediate, not needing to be held or managed.

I don’t quite know why it feels slightly hard to trust too much ‘enjoying’ direct experience. Maybe because enjoyment felt like part of the illusion — the thing that was keeping it so convincing. Funny how the mind creates beliefs lol

Yes, enjoyment can still feel suspicious at first. The mind once used pleasure as proof of being “someone” who experiences it, so now it tries to stay on guard. But when enjoyment happens naturally, with no “me” owning it, it’s as innocent as a breeze. Let it be. Even joy is just another texture of This.

Let’s move into the checkpoints now. These are not tests or grades — they’re simply a way to look again from different angles and confirm that the seeing holds steady in ordinary life. Take your time answering them, directly from experience, not memory or logic. Please answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?
Love
Rali

[cha0101]

Let’s move into the checkpoints now. These are not tests or grades — they’re simply a way to look again from different angles and confirm that the seeing holds steady in ordinary life. Take your time answering them, directly from experience, not memory or logic.

I wasn’t sure how much time to take here. I realize that, day by day, there isn’t a stability in perception. Sometimes being, or acting, ‘as before’. Traffic jam impatience, fear-based judgements, acting as if I’m preserving a set of beliefs, while other times more like swimming through experiences with this new ease and awareness. Something shifted today, which felt like a miracle. Not to exaggerate, or be sensational, as this ‘miracle’ was utterly subtle and in some way a shift into something that is so average, common-sensible and normal or ordinary.

Something unhooked — related to the tethering to, or effect of, intense thoughts (and thoughts did intensify over the last week — cagey and sounding the alarm about relationships, work, finances, life and death, and on and on).

For weeks, my sense of identification with my thoughts had been shifting, but only during periods of relative calm. The moment a crisis hit, it felt like being back at square one, forced to rebuild from the rubble through inquiry and old practices. Today, however, during a bout of intense, irrational fear, something shifted and the connection to this mental push-and-pull snapped, and even the most powerful thoughts began to pass like clouds.

It was very cool. And right now it feels like a great adventure — and honestly, there is a sense that doesn’t even matter which way the adventure goes (‘positive’ or ’negative’ or ’neutral’ in its twists and turns) because there is a seemingly place from which to just experience from. To ‘go’ and experience, yet not be dragged around mercilessly lol

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

The separate self isn’t there, and not a thing that exists in itself. It’s recognized now to more like a collection of memories. Conditioning. With no center or substance. A seeming entanglement of moving thoughts and beliefs and sensations. Nobody is there, and there never was!

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is so very convincing lol. Until you see through it. I don’t know how this would happen without strict, clear, concise pointers. It’s hard to pin down exactly when it starts, but as far back as I can remember, that sense of "me" was already there. You can see it in children when you notice that drive to have things their way, to get what they want, and to avoid what they don’t. That’s probably where it really comes online, when a child realizes individual preferences. And feels powerful when the sense of agency pops in through the illusion of thought.

When a feeling comes up, like a tightness in the stomach, almost instantly the mind jumps in and claims it: "That’s my stomach. I'm hungry. I need to eat." What could be witnessed as a simple sensation suddenly becomes this urgent, personal drama. And once that happens, actions follow, and things get complex. My experience with that is concretely wanting to economize and save energy — by planning for the future, digging into the past for backup, and building this whole identity based on memories and expectations. Then, the whole of life as you know it is lived in the past or future. Almost never really here, present. Chasing pleasure, safety, and approval, while running from pain, insecurity, and rejection. Ug. A lifetime of struggle, all for a problem that was never really there. Logically, I know it makes no sense to say it "could have been avoided" as if there was ever a separate me to make that choice. But the thought still pushes itself in sometimes lol. Especially since this more simple awareness is still really new, and thoughts of the past still masquerade for a bit before dissolving lol

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It’s a really interesting shift. It feels less like something new was built, and more like a background tension I didn’t even know was there has dissolved. The biggest difference in the last few days is in how thoughts land, how much power they have, compared to before.

Before we started communicating, there was still a subtle, almost instant hooks, everywhere my gaze landed. Opinions, judgements — even the positive ones were putting out effort, being certain and affirming a direction with effort, if that makes sense. But now, it’s more like thoughts arise, and they just pass. They don't stick the same way. The thoughts that used to feel like they were tending to emergencies now (really just as of today in a significant way lol) feel like passing clouds. Not knocking things over.. because they are quite empty! That’s the absolute biggest difference. The illusion of the power of thoughts has shifted.

It's like the space all around feels different now. While seeing the same scenery, it feels more engaging, more right here. And sounds can have so much more variety in how they are perceived, when coming from ‘over there’, it can shift, to feel like surround sound, or the sound, sounding suddenly in different place. At least when sitting or standing quietly and focusing there specifically on sound — it’s then like something opens up and a new sound dance begins.

Everything feels more alive, mostly when decidedly slowing down and recalling the new pace, and new perspective. It’s ease to ‘get there’, it’s like remembering to drop in, to how things actually are. I guess due to having less mental static getting in the way of the actual experience.

One more thing, a really nice gift of DE and new perception, or more natural unhindered perception. I was out with a big group of friends today. A community gathering with all the old regulars. Some I know well and spend a good amount of time with, and others I tend to normally, er, avoid lol. I noticed this huge sense of appreciation (even love) for ALL of them — even the people I didn't really click with before. My old story was that in any big crowd, you're bound to find a few difficult people. I figured that was just life, a lesson in patience. But not today. Today, it was like every single person was shining in their own way. There was a feeling of softy exchanging, giving in some subtle, unseen way. I could see something to appreciate in each one, and it was alive and flowing.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The first thing that comes to mind is the energy behind the pointers. It's hard to put into words, but there was a unique simplicity and potency to them—they cut right to the heart of the matter.
It was almost like the words carried a different vibe and whispered something like, "Pay attention," or "Don't miss this." It wasn't any of those things literally, but more of a feeling that hinted at all of them. There was something there that impelled me to stay with what mattered and not lose the thread.

Some moments really stood out. The mirror exercise, for one, delivered the most immediate 'aha' moment, with a sudden, tangible shift.

But the real game-changer has been the simple habit of turning toward direct experience itself — just seeing, listening, sensing, reporting the thought, without a story, and habitually through the day. Things opened up with this in a new way.

And just knowing you were there. Having a real, actual, presence to return to, to ask questions, made a 100% difference.

There is still question 5 to answer! I’ll finish that up soon, wanting to send this off so I’m not delaying another day!

And just wanting to say once again that there is so much appreciation for your time and insight and for the simplicity that cuts through conditioning :)


Have a great rest of your week!


In so much appreciation to you Rali!

Chal

[cha0101]

con't :)

Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Events are only witnessed, not decided, and the next moment is always a mystery. Even if it’s likely to seem to follow a predictable sequence, there is no following, just arising. And I like that point about “immediacy” helped this one a lot.


I loved the testing out of this one, and felt some of the cosmic humour in it. For example, when setting clear intention (like walking to turn on a tap to get some water) and playing with thought that, really, even within the span of 20 seconds, one can never know what will actually happen lol. “I believe that it will be the case, that, in less than a minute or so, water from the tap will flow into the cup” lol
Actions happen or arise. But there is no one deciding prior to an action.

example: I feel the sensation of hunger and a thoughts would arise about what I want to eat. The feeling of leaning towards something, and proceeding to eat that thing that arose in the mind in through. (even so, it’s just a commentary of moments arising.

example: someone asks a question and it seems like i choose, as a consequence, to search my mind and i seem to decide to reply with what feels like a good and accurate answer. But the question and the searching and replying are all just moments arising.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

intention is a thought that arises. There is no one actually there to intend.

example: while walking, an impulse arises to sit by a tree, the intention is to go sit, and it happens. But the intention is empty, just a thought . So there is the thought “I’ll sit by that tree” arises. The body walks and sits. The thought was simply part of what appeared and was not a cause, and there is no doer.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Thoughts, impulses, and actions simply appear. The idea of free will arises as a thought that includes the sense of a subject who decides, intends, and acts.

example: The thought that “I’ll have coffee instead of tea” arises, and the body moves to make coffee. But there is no subject there to choose and act. Thoughts and actions simply arise. A thought labels but all components are just separate appearances.

Describe control & give examples from experience

Control is the idea that a separate “me” directs what happens.

example: I plan to stay calm, but emotions still arise or I try to fall asleep, but sleep doesn’t come. Control is just another thought appearing, apart from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Things happen by themselves. Thoughts, feelings, and actions arise naturally, without a separate doer. How that works, I don’t know!

example: tears come while hearing a song — no choice, or plan of action, or action, or effort or even cry-er, just a happening. Song, sounds, tears, unconnected direct experiences.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience

There’s no separate “me” to be responsible. Things just appear! No doer, no agency, no cause and effect in the way I used to assume. The theme is still confusing, in my belief framework. I get it, but still seems like we need to actively align to something, to have balance in life. It's strange how easy it is to hold 2 opposing beliefs (that there is no responsibility, while also holding there needs to be). I expect that will clarify with deeper DE focus and clarity :)

Anything to add?

— I’d love to understand how things actually work — if it’s even possible to know why one thing appears and not another.

— Could you offer a pointer on how to see more clearly the difference between sensations and feelings?


Thank you Rali!!

[poppyseed]

Hi Chal,
You’re looking cleanly. The reports about fear snapping, thoughts passing like clouds, and the “movie” being known as appearance—all on point.
Now let’s tighten a few places you flagged:

Events are only witnessed, not decided, and the next moment is always a mystery.

Look carefully:
Is there an event and something separate that witnesses it?
Or is there only the event?
What you call “witnessing” is just the event itself. There is no second layer. No observer behind.
A sound appears — that is the hearing. (not a sound + hearing it)
A sensation appears — that is the feeling. (not a sensation + a feeler)
A thought appears — that is the thinking. (not a thought + interpreter of thought)
Check:
Where is the line between “event” and “witnessing the event”? is there some kind of bridge connecting them?
Can you find two things, or only one seamless happening?
There is just sound-ing, seeing-ing, sensation-ing — not “something watching something.
Before the thought “I am witnessing this” appears, what’s actually here?

There’s no separate “me” to be responsible. Things just appear! No doer, no agency, no cause and effect in the way I used to assume. The theme is still confusing, in my belief framework.

In DE there’s no entity to carry anything. What’s left isn’t responsibility, it’s responsiveness.
Try this now:
A shout outside → sound appears. Body moves to check. Care/thoughts/actions appear.
Where is the controller/the responder? Nowhere. And yet care happens. “I should be responsible” is a thought. Responsiveness is what’s actual.
Use this quick check whenever the “responsibility” knot appears:
What is here as DE?
What thought says “I must/should”?
What happens anyway?
Find the owner of any step. (You won’t.)

Could you offer a pointer on how to see more clearly the difference between sensations and feelings?

In DE there are only sensations. “Feeling/emotion” = sensation + a story/label.
Do this:
Locate the strongest body area now. List only raw qualities: “tight / warm / pulsing / moving up.”
Now let the mind supply the label (“anxiety / sadness / joy”).
See the add-on. Drop the label. What remains? (Only sensation.)
Notice how intensity shifts when label is present vs absent—does the label create the heaviness?
Whenever a strong emotion arrives, try and deconstruct it down to bodily sensations. That is to say, see that certain sensations tend to be labelled in certain ways, e.g. the thought label “fear” may be habitually applied to a knot-like sensation in the stomach area. “Anxiety” may be the thought label for trembling hands and nausea, etc. They may vary for different people (conditioned nature), so it helps to be aware of what it is for you. Can you give some examples of this from your experience?
So now look: Does a sensation suggest in any way that it is “fear”/”anxiety”? Does a sensation suggest in any way that it even knows and recognises the thought about fear? Can you find a thinker of thought that is labelling sensations 'fear', or does labelling simply arise suggesting that the sensation is fear? Is the word containg "fear"/ fearful?

Once you’re down to the bare sensation – having taken the thought label off it, the story can hardly go unnoticed. A knot in the stomach is a knot in the stomach, and nothing more – not fear, and not a story about something that brings fear. And so you laugh :)

I’d love to understand how things actually work — if it’s even possible to know why one thing appears and not another.

Notice that question is itself another appearance/thought. In DE, you never find a mechanism. Cause and effect as we’ve seen appear only in thought – where you have “things” that interact with each other. In DE you only ever find: this sensation, this sound, this thought — appearing.
Before the thought “why did this appear?” shows up, what is here that could explain anything?

The mind imagines a hidden machinery because it can’t tolerate mystery. But in DE, appearance has no source. Things appear the same way sounds appear — without a ‘why’.” The moment you try to answer “why this and not that,” you’ve left DE and entered imagination. Whatever explanation/theory/ answers thought comes up with, it will not be this. Thoughts are always out of step with reality. Reality is very simple.

Once you can see this, you will stop endlessly frustrating yourself by trying to figure out how things are. Just look, what is it that is separate from what is, and trying to figure out how things are?
Is there a self or me here, who is separate and isolated from what is, from reality, and thus is in need to understand reality?
Truth or reality is not an idea or a belief. It cannot be grasped by thoughts. It does not need to be understood by the intellect. Actually, it is impossible to understand through thoughts.
It is inconceivable, ungraspable. And yet, it can be directly seen.
If you look honestly, you’ll see the only truthful answer is:
It appears because… it appears.
Not as a reason — just a fact of DE.
Everything else is story.

Love
Rali

[cha0101]

Hi Rali,
thank you for your reply. and the needed reinforcement, for re-simplifying and staying with DE :)

Events are only witnessed, not decided, and the next moment is always a mystery.
Look carefully:
Is there an event and something separate that witnesses it?
Or is there only the event?

Oh yes. Yes yes yes. I think I just slid back, into the comfortable. thoughts gelling backwards, back into complexity and identification lol.
I think I’ll go over everything again in the earlier correspondence too, with, as they say, a beginners mind. Maybe even reading the notes again, as though it's the 1st time coming across these themes. Looking with a ‘don’t know mind’ is something that could be good here to focus on, for a re-visit of the pointers.

So yes, there is only the event. No ‘something’ separate to witness it.

What you call “witnessing” is just the event itself. There is no second layer. No observer behind.

I really want to ‘get’ this. Realizing that having intensity about it and ‘trying’ isn’t exactly the right direction. But losing something so value (like the direct experience of ‘sound’, without a hearer, etc) actually brings up an echo of grief. Not kidding.

Check:
Where is the line between “event” and “witnessing the event”? is there some kind of bridge connecting them?
Can you find two things, or only one seamless happening?

There is no line, only a thought of separation. And when noticing more closely, the thought of separation dissipates. No event+witnessing, no bridge. Only one seamless happening.

There is just sound-ing, seeing-ing, sensation-ing — not “something watching something.
Before the thought “I am witnessing this” appears, what’s actually here?

Just the direct experience of seeing, hearing, feeling.

In DE there’s no entity to carry anything. What’s left isn’t responsibility, it’s responsiveness.

Right, ok. ‘Responsiveness’ wasn’t on my radar. Good to have a word to connect to, that makes sense. It’s so clear and light, compared to the loaded word ‘responsibility’. Ty

Try this now:
A shout outside → sound appears. Body moves to check. Care/thoughts/actions appear.
Where is the controller/the responder? Nowhere. And yet care happens. “I should be responsible” is a thought. Responsiveness is what’s actual.
Use this quick check whenever the “responsibility” knot appears:
What is here as DE?
What thought says “I must/should”?
What happens anyway?
Find the owner of any step. (You won’t.)

This is wonderful. Thank you for these steps to go through.

Do this:
Locate the strongest body area now. List only raw qualities: “tight / warm / pulsing / moving up.”
Now let the mind supply the label (“anxiety / sadness / joy”).
See the add-on. Drop the label. What remains? (Only sensation.)
Notice how intensity shifts when label is present vs absent—does the label create the heaviness?

Yes, the sensation is just sensation, while the label is loaded with what seems like real pressure, distress etc.

Whenever a strong emotion arrives, try and deconstruct it down to bodily sensations. That is to say, see that certain sensations tend to be labelled in certain ways, e.g. the thought label “fear” may be habitually applied to a knot-like sensation in the stomach area. “Anxiety” may be the thought label for trembling hands and nausea, etc. They may vary for different people (conditioned nature), so it helps to be aware of what it is for you. Can you give some examples of this from your experience?

Area: Head
qualities: energy pulsing, constriction, tight, warm
Label: anticipation

Area: heart, throat
Qualities: tight, energy moving up
Label: sadness

So now look: Does a sensation suggest in any way that it is “fear”/”anxiety”? Does a sensation suggest in any way that it even knows and recognises the thought about fear? Can you find a thinker of thought that is labelling sensations 'fear', or does labelling simply arise suggesting that the sensation is fear? Is the word containg "fear"/ fearful?

A sensation can’t suggest there is any emotion within it. What an interesting question, to ask - does the sensation have the ability to know or recognize a thought or label? It makes it really clear. When you actually look, of course not!

Once you’re down to the bare sensation – having taken the thought label off it, the story can hardly go unnoticed. A knot in the stomach is a knot in the stomach, and nothing more – not fear, and not a story about something that brings fear. And so you laugh :)

Lol yes. More laughter underway :)

Notice that question is itself another appearance/thought. In DE, you never find a mechanism. Cause and effect as we’ve seen appear only in thought – where you have “things” that interact with each other. In DE you only ever find: this sensation, this sound, this thought — appearing.
Before the thought “why did this appear?” shows up, what is here that could explain a

nything?


I heard an awakened guy (from my p.o.v.) say that there are 100s of 1000s appearances that happen, that direct the specifics now moment — too many to count that it fatigues the mind, so don’t bother looking. I didn’t question it. I think I must have just accepted that (as a mechanism!) in the background, like an unknowable ‘layer’ of reality, that has effect on what appears. Seeing now that it’s just a thought, and the thought kind of attempts to assign some background legitimacy to time, cause and effect, etc. It’s just thought/ imagination.

The mind imagines a hidden machinery because it can’t tolerate mystery. But in DE, appearance has no source.

Appearance has no source, yes! This is so good, so clear.

Things appear the same way sounds appear — without a ‘why’.” The moment you try to answer “why this and not that,” you’ve left DE and entered imagination. Whatever explanation/theory/ answers thought comes up with, it will not be this. Thoughts are always out of step with reality. Reality is very simple.

Like the Tao that can be spoken, is not the real Tao :)

Just look, what is it that is separate from what is, and trying to figure out how things are?

Ty :) If it appears separate, it’s thought.

Is there a self or me here, who is separate and isolated from what is, from reality, and thus is in need to understand reality?

No, no self, so separate anything.

Truth or reality is not an idea or a belief. It cannot be grasped by thoughts. It does not need to be understood by the intellect. Actually, it is impossible to understand through thoughts.
It is inconceivable, ungraspable. And yet, it can be directly seen.
If you look honestly, you’ll see the only truthful answer is:
It appears because… it appears.
Not as a reason — just a fact of DE.
Everything else is story.

Well, this says it! Now it’s just staying 'here'. In the truth of it. The DE.

Heartfelt thank you Rali!

[poppyseed]

Hi Chal
I can feel the clarity deepening beautifully.

I think I just slid back, into the comfortable. thoughts gelling backwards, back into complexity and identification lol.

Good catch seeing you had slipped back into the familiar language. This is all that’s needed. But look closer:
Who slipped back?
A phrase appeared. Then a thought said “I slipped.” Then a sensation. That’s all.
Can you find a “someone” who chose the phrase? A “me” who should’ve done differently? A “doer” behind the thoughts?
There’s no one there — only thoughts self-organising and sensations appearing. Nothing went wrong.
Nothing needed to be prevented. Just noticing is enough.

However, notice how the story of guilt and responsibility to do better appears. But…
Guilt depends on a self. And since no self can be found in DE, guilt has nothing to land on.
Language habits still show up — that’s normal conditioning, not a failure. No one is doing them.
With guilt, as with any other emotion, check:
What is the DE? (sensation + thought)
What about the raw sensation – any guilt in it?
And then stay with the raw sensation, explore it, live it. When felt fully it dissipates. Explore it with curiosity, as if you have never seen it before. Once the label drops, what’s left is just raw life — pulsing, tightness, warmth, movement — totally neutral. And yes, laughter is the right response.
You don’t stabilise a state. What happens is much simpler: conditioning loses its centre.
Thoughts that used to report for duty immediately (“me,” “my,” “should,” “what if”) keep firing for a while, just out of habit. Let them. They unwind on their own. There is no one inside doing this process — it’s just life reorganising itself without a reference point.

The feeling “I lost it” is simply another appearance — not a fact.
When noise rises… Notice the texture in the chest. The speed of thought. The tightening in the throat. The labels piled on top. None of this obscures DE unless thought claims it does.
The “lost / found” storyline doesn’t describe reality — just the weather of the mind.

There is no line, only a thought of separation. And when noticing more closely, the thought of separation dissipates. No event+witnessing, no bridge. Only one seamless happening.

Yes!! There is no event + witnessing.
Try to find two things. You won’t. Sounding is sound. Seeing is colour. Sensation is sensation.
The thought “I am witnessing” comes after the experience and creates a phantom second layer.
Check again:
In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'what can be heard'? Where is the line where hearing ends and the heard begins?
Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only 'what can be heard'?
An 'I'? a 'body'? a 'person'? a brain? a pair of ears? Can these be found doing the hearing? Or is there just 'what can be heard'?
Can an INHERENT HEARER/a witness be found? Would anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

I really want to ‘get’ this. Realizing that having intensity about it and ‘trying’ isn’t exactly the right direction. But losing something so value (like the direct experience of ‘sound’, without a hearer, etc) actually brings up an echo of grief. Not kidding.

You don’t “lose” witnessing — because witnessing was never there. Only the idea of it was.
Right after the knot loosens, two things often appear: a sense of grief (“something precious might vanish”) or a sense of euphoria (“finally, this is it!”)
Both are the same:
sensations + thought commentary.
The mind doesn’t yet know how to organise itself without the old reference point, so it can feel like wobbling between two poles. In grief you can almost see the five stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance, when thought is mourning the loss of an anchor – the self.
Look directly:
Is grief anything other than sensation + a thought about “loss”?
Is euphoria anything other than sensation + a thought about “gain”?
Nothing is actually gained or lost.
There never was a “holder” of experience.

I heard an awakened guy (from my p.o.v.) say that there are 100s of 1000s appearances that happen, that direct the specifics now moment — too many to count that it fatigues the mind, so don’t bother looking. I didn’t question it. I think I must have just accepted that (as a mechanism!) in the background, like an unknowable ‘layer’ of reality, that has effect on what appears. Seeing now that it’s just a thought, and the thought kind of attempts to assign some background legitimacy to time, cause and effect, etc. It’s just thought/ imagination.

Yes!! That “100,000 appearances guiding the moment” idea is just another story — a very subtle one. The mind loves imagining a hidden control-room because mystery feels intolerable to it. All these signs that the process is going well is nothing but a desire for control of the unravelling.
But look:
Is there any mechanism in DE? Any gears? Any causal chain? Any “system” behind appearances?
What makes what to appear?
No. Only: this sound, this colour, this sensation, this thought. Always.
Before the thought “why did this appear?” arises, nothing at all is found that could explain anything.
Appearance has no source. There is no “how.” There is no “why this and not that.”. Any specifics that might “appear” are about the story, not DE. DE has always been the same and it will not change. What changes is the story. The story might become more enjoyable and easy flowing without the fear that something can happen to this “me,” but it is still a story, not reality. And then the question becomes: Who benefits from this? What witnesses the 1000 appearances and knows that things are going in the right direction? :) No! It's much simpler than this!
The Tao line you quoted is perfect:
“The Tao that can be spoken is not the real Tao.”
If it can be explained, it isn’t this.

You don’t need to hold anything steady. Just keep noticing:
seeing — hearing — sensing — smelling — tasting — thinking.
Let all of it flow.
This natural rhythm integrates everything: joy, fear, intensity, dullness, confusion, clarity…
Every movement is part of the unravelling. Even the moment you question everything — that too is life processing itself. Nothing is going backwards. Nothing is being threatened. You cannot lose what was never separate.
It appears because it appears.
Everything else is story.
You’re doing beautifully, Chal.
Just stay with the immediacy.
Nothing can be lost — because nothing was ever held.
Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

Hi Chal
Are we stll doing this?
Love
Rali