Stuck on the witness

[Jutylda]

Ridiculous in the sense that my words are all bullshit. Did my words mean I was trying to manipulate you and have a laugh about it? Did my words mean I was trying to wake you up?

Hm. When I said "Oh come on, stop with the funny manipulations" it was like saying "Oh come on, cut the bullshit". There was high probability that you wasn't seriously trying to mock me, or even to manipulate me into the feeling that you are mocking me.
What were you really trying to do, I have no Idea. Maybe you are just spewing words and looking what will happen.

What do your words mean? What does the reason for your anger mean?

The anger and distrust, if not expressed and resolved, will linger inside. It would become an unconscious obstacle, just as you said - at some point I would want to prove you wrong by not dropping anything, and to express my anger in this way. And I wouldn't even know what is happening.

Manipulation, strawman, mockery, putting words in your mouth, arrogance, justified anger, conditioned anger, getting the last laugh, goals, solutions, relative meaningfulness... 😲😲😲🤷
Is any of this actually happening?

Who knows? It was happening for me.

[Jutylda]

Is any of this actually happening?

Oh, maybe you mean, that most of it is the mind going through the probabilities. Yes, it is.

[ty0]

Oh, maybe you mean, that most of it is the mind going through the probabilities. Yes, it is.

Are any of these probabilities possible? Can any interpretation your mind makes be what is *actually* happening?

What were you really trying to do, I have no Idea. Maybe you are just spewing words and looking what will happen.

I'm just spewing words. I'm like a dog barking. Why should anger and distrust arise from a dog barking? Do you have expectations about how I should bark? Of course, express it if it arises. But also look into why it ever arised. I find it quite absurd, actually 😜.

Who knows? It was happening for me.

This is a great point. Can I offer that not only this was happening only for you, but everything is? If I said different words, your reaction would be totally different. But these words are just shapes on a screen, again, I'm a dog barking. Whatever phenomena happens simply happens with no inherent quality. It's only within your dream-castle thought-world that a judgement is made, emotions arise, more thoughts arise to react to it, and this cycle perpetuates itself.

From what? From the initial thought that appears.
For what? Apparently, for nothing but your own suffering.

On a practical level, what can you do? Not much except see the mechanism, then belief in the story falls away. Keeping attention more in the senses helps, because these absurd stories stick out much more obviously, and the likelihood of noticing the initial thought increases.

With that said, would you please go gaze at the sky and enjoy yourself? :)

[Jutylda]

Are any of these probabilities possible? Can any interpretation your mind makes be what is *actually* happening?

The goal of these probabilities was not to figure out what is actual. It was, as you said, to "look into why it (the anger) has ever arised".
From my perspective the sequence was as follows:
1. I've read your words.
2. I've noticed anger.
3. I didn't know, why I'm angry.
4. The mind started going through probabilities. You can see it in the posts, almost in real time: one hypothesis, then "I need to rephrase it", second hypothesis, then third hypothesis about praise and ambition, then the forth one - and I'm not so sure about the last one, it still feels off. It rings true, but I have a feeling that's not all.

I'm just spewing words. I'm like a dog barking. Why should anger and distrust arise from a dog barking? … I find it quite absurd, actually

My anger is also for me like a dog barking. A person goes by and the dog starts barking. It's conditioned this way. Sure, it's all absurd. I'm getting angry and it's absurd, you write something in response and it's absurd. What's not absurd? It's absurd, that there is anything happening, rather than nothing. That's the point. I live this absurd, because there's no other choice, but I don't find it enjoyable.

Can I offer that not only this was happening only for you, but everything is?

Yes, that's how I think. Actual or not actual, it's happening only for me. No one else can see the sky exactly as I see it. (Or the visual phenomenon commonly described as the sky - let's keep it short for our convenience).

With that said, would you please go gaze at the sky and enjoy yourself? :)

I gazed. There were too many clouds for the perception shift, so I was mostly noticing the feelings. It was something like bleakness / blandness [?]. Sometimes people describe it as "I feel like a robot". You know, like "Gazing at the sky activated". The phrase came up: "I feel undead".

Whatever phenomena happens simply happens with no inherent quality.

Exactly. The sky phenomenon is not inherently enjoyable, or bland, or absurd. If you're conditoned to enjoy the sky, you will enjoy it. If I'm conditioned to find the sky bland, I will just stare at it blankly. If we're conditioned to find it absurd, we will find it absurd.

Love
Jutka

[ty0]

The goal of these probabilities was not to figure out what is actual. It was, as you said, to "look into why it (the anger) has ever arised".
From my perspective the sequence was as follows:
1. I've read your words.
2. I've noticed anger.
3. I didn't know, why I'm angry.
4. The mind started going through probabilities.

Oh okay. I would add a step between 3 and 4 though, "Feeling the anger fully until it calms down", even if this takes a whole day. When you look for an answer, it's taking away from the actual experience of anger. And often, the experience of anger will show you the reason much quicker than looking for the reason will

My anger is also for me like a dog barking. A person goes by and the dog starts barking. It's conditioned this way.

I don't mean that it's conditioned. I mean that it's arbitrary.

Exactly. The sky phenomenon is not inherently enjoyable, or bland, or absurd. If you're conditoned to enjoy the sky, you will enjoy it. If I'm conditioned to find the sky bland, I will just stare at it blankly. If we're conditioned to find it absurd, we will find it absurd.

I think you may have beliefs about conditioning. I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm saying that they're a part of your conditioning 😂. Somewhere around 99% of phenomena is inherently enjoyable, inherently meaning "without conditioning" (based on the experience of many). Though "enjoyable" is not a quality of phenomena, it's just a description of the absence of some qualities.

Go look at the sky without the intention of having a perception shift. If it's bland, it's bland. If it's "Gazing at the sky activated", look for the gazing. Is gazing happening? Where's gazing? Then back to the sky. If it's enjoyable, it's enjoyable.

[Jutylda]

I would add a step between 3 and 4 though, "Feeling the anger fully until it calms down"

That was the plan when I wrote "Goddam it, I'll just go away now at let myself be angry". But I've got distracted by your questions. Oh well, no success this time, but no worries, it will come back.

And often, the experience of anger will show you the reason much quicker than looking for the reason will

When I'm going through probabilities, it's not so much about looking for a logical, reasonable justification. It's rather like palpating the body to find out where does it hurt. The mind is showing probabilities and looking, if the emotions will flare up. Or, as Vince would say it, looking for the juice.

I don't mean that it's conditioned. I mean that it's arbitrary.

Again, I'm not sure what do you mean by "arbitrary". Do you mean that it's like with a Pavlovian dog? It was conditioned to drool at the sound of bell, but it might as well be conditioned by Pavlov to drool at the sound of a lullaby, or at the sight of a blue ribbon, or at the touch of velvet. All of this can be trained, because in the first place the dog was conditioned to drool at the smell of food - not by Pavlov, but just by the nature, the biology, the evolution, whatever you want to call it.
And it's the same with us, we are conditioned by what we were taught, or by our experience, or by the evolution of our species. The conditions are not fixed, so you can say they are arbitrary.

I think you may have beliefs about conditioning. I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm saying that they're a part of your conditioning 😂. Somewhere around 99% of phenomena is inherently enjoyable, inherently meaning "without conditioning" (based on the experience of many).

We must be using the same word, "conditioning", with a different meaning in mind, because for me that last sentence makes no sense. If you are enjoying a phenomenon, then the enjoyment arises on the condition of perceiveing a phenomenon. You are conditioned to experience ejoyment, when the condtion of perceiving a phenomenon is fulfilled. Enjoyment "without conditioning" would not require any conditions, no phenomena to arise or cease. It's not possible for any reaction to happen without conditioning.

Though "enjoyable" is not a quality of phenomena, it's just a description of the absence of some qualities.[/quoted]
So this enjoyment arises not on the condition of perceiving a phenomenon, but on the condition of the absence of some qualities, or in other words, on the condition of the mind ceasing to ascribe qualities. This enjoyment I understand. It's like the enjoyment of silence. Or like the enjoyment of falling asleep. The enjoyment of the ceasing.
I could notice it somewhat, when gazing at the sky. Then I closed my eyes and it got more pronounced.

Love
Jutka

[Jutylda]

Oh, maybe I couldn't understand "arbitrary" because of the language barrier. For me "arbitrary" sounds like there would be some "arbiter" making some "arbitration", and that threw me off. But it's the same as "coincidental", "accidental", "incidental", isn't it? Not completely random, out of nowhere, but also not fixed.

[ty0]

We must be using the same word, "conditioning", with a different meaning in mind, because for me that last sentence makes no sense. If you are enjoying a phenomenon, then the enjoyment arises on the condition of perceiveing a phenomenon. You are conditioned to experience ejoyment, when the condtion of perceiving a phenomenon is fulfilled. Enjoyment "without conditioning" would not require any conditions, no phenomena to arise or cease. It's not possible for any reaction to happen without conditioning.

Ah ok I'll rephrase to "prior conditioning" then. Most people have preconceived notions about certain things. Their judgement is already there when they perceive it. They're experiencing mostly their interpretation of phenomena (which is thought, which is also phenomena, but clouding all other phenomena). But without any positive or negative judgement/belief, when void of any opinion about what's happening, a large portion of phenomena is enjoyable. It's like when some children play and don't think about what they're doing or why they're doing it or if it's worth doing etc.

So this enjoyment arises not on the condition of perceiving a phenomenon, but on the condition of the absence of some qualities, or in other words, on the condition of the mind ceasing to ascribe qualities. This enjoyment I understand. It's like the enjoyment of silence. Or like the enjoyment of falling asleep. The enjoyment of the ceasing.
I could notice it somewhat, when gazing at the sky. Then I closed my eyes and it got more pronounced.

Ah, yeah, I wrote the previous paragraph before reading this. So you got it already. So as you go through your life, if you're not enjoying yourself at a particular time, ask yourself why. And then if you see why and you don't feel better and you get frustrated, ask yourself why you feel frustrated. And so on and so on...

[Jutylda]

I think it is the knowledge of the condtioning, that takes the pleasure away. For example, if I am praised for something, it is pleasurable. But if I am aware that it is a part of conditioning, then the pleasure gets greatly diminished. You can't enjoy the magician's trick so much, when you have already seen through it. Sure, there is still some enjoyment, but it can't hold a candle to this primal, innocent, bubbly exstatic joy of being praised, or of watching the magic show.

I agree that most of the phenomena are enjoyable for humans by nature. Somewhat surprisingly, for the first time I've heard it from a priest (he was quite a cool one). He said that we are created in such a way, that even taking a dump gives us pleasure. I think it was pretty insightful.
But, when you see this most basic pleasure as conditioning, this "go toward the pleasure, get away from the pain" mechanism, then it turns into just another magic trick. As if the whole world was trying to trick you into staying alive, for some unexplained reason.

It doesn't feel like a frustration, it's just bland. I still find the pleasure in eating, dancing, smoking, solving puzzles, sky gazing, and taking a dump. But it's like going through the motions of pleasure. Or, like I've said before: "I feel undead".

Love
Jutka

[ty0]

It doesn't feel like a frustration, it's just bland. I still find the pleasure in eating, dancing, smoking, solving puzzles, sky gazing, and taking a dump. But it's like going through the motions of pleasure. Or, like I've said before: "I feel undead".

And you know exactly why this is the case. You see all the pleasure in life as "conditioned". "It feels good to eat because the body releases chemicals to make me feel good as a reward for keeping the organism alive" and all the other explanations on why things feel good. But just as phenomena is arbitrary, are these explanations not also arbitrary? I can't even begin to explain why looking at the sky is so enjoyable.

I understand the pleasure of being praised being undermined, I can't really derive pleasure from that anymore, because that pleasure is dependent on believing in stories about yourself, others, your self-worth, etc... but there is no story when I look at the sky or the bathroom tiles. There is no story when I lie down on the sofa and feel the sensations. There is no story when I feel a cool breeze or when I feel bliss during meditation.

Of course, I could come up with stories for all these things, possibly making them less enjoyable. It seems like there's a big difference between when enjoyment comes first versus when story comes first, but I don't know if that matters.

I agree that most of the phenomena are enjoyable for humans by nature. Somewhat surprisingly, for the first time I've heard it from a priest (he was quite a cool one). He said that we are created in such a way, that even taking a dump gives us pleasure. I think it was pretty insightful.

That sounds like a really cool priest 😂😂😂. Yeah, eating feels good, shitting feels good, walking feels good, sleeping feels good, isn't life really fucking good?

But, when you see this most basic pleasure as conditioning, this "go toward the pleasure, get away from the pain" mechanism, then it turns into just another magic trick.

This thing about a mechanism is just a story, no?


This blandness comes from your views on things. Why do you hold all those views? Could you list them down and see how one view leads to other views?
For example:
-Xyz is abc
-Therefore life is abc
-Also things are blahblahblah

Lay them out in plain view and scrutinise them. Why do you believe these things? How do these beliefs benefit you?

[Jutylda]

From the things I've said above, one comes out for me the most: "As if the whole world was trying to trick you". It's not just a though, it's an emotional hook, the hurt of having been deceived, and from that - the distrust and anger.
I remember a saying, that buddhism is like a reverse paranoia - instead of "the whole world is conspiring against me", it's "the whole world is conspiring to support me". For me it's not enough. Yes, the whole world is conspiring to support me, but for what reason? Because of love? Well, that's another can of worms.

Not long ago at the meeting I was guided through this feeling of hurt, and I cried for a while. Then Dennis said, that when I was crying, I looked radiant, and what he saw was not sadness, but love. I smiled and answered "Maybe", but later I realized, that there was also a reaction of distrust to this remark - not to the words, but to the tone of the voice, that was somehow suggesting that if there was love, then it's a good thing.

I don't trust this story of "Love is a good thing". Not because I think it's a fake or disingenous. I mean the authentic, heartfelt love. I also don't think that it is a bad thing. I see love as a very powerful energy, a force to be reckoned with. As any force, when wielded without wisdom and skill, it can bring hurt, but it can also bring well-being. It can also be a kind of emotional blackmail, enforced by no one in particular, just by the nature itself.

Dennis was right, love is the basis for this whole distrust and anger, I can see that.
They often say that the feeling of anxiety is physiologically almost the same as the feeling of excitement. Well, for me it's quite a big "almost", but I can see the common part of these two feelings. And I think it's the same with distrust and curiosity. They both say "But what is it really?".
In both cases, the difference is the hurting underneath. In excitement and curiosity the body is open. In anxiety and in distrust the body kind of curls up to protect the hurting wound - just as it would do with a physical wound. And exactly this is love - protecting, supporting, keeping me well. Just not very skillful at that.

I guess there is more, but that's it for now.
I'll look into it, and see, what I can find.

Love (haha, now this word has an ominous overtone)
Jutka

[ty0]

I remember a saying, that buddhism is like a reverse paranoia - instead of "the whole world is conspiring against me", it's "the whole world is conspiring to support me". For me it's not enough. Yes, the whole world is conspiring to support me, but for what reason? Because of love? Well, that's another can of worms.

I don't think that's what Buddhism is about (though I'm not a Buddhist). The whole world conspiring to support you thing is total bullshit (in the same way the opposite is total bullshit).

Then Dennis said, that when I was crying, I looked radiant, and what he saw was not sadness, but love. I smiled and answered "Maybe", but later I realized, that there was also a reaction of distrust to this remark - not to the words, but to the tone of the voice, that was somehow suggesting that if there was love, then it's a good thing.

Hahahah. That comes from a person who's trying to find some good. But yeah, it's a very "So what?" moment.

I don't trust this story of "Love is a good thing".

Nice

And I think it's the same with distrust and curiosity. They both say "But what is it really?".
In both cases, the difference is the hurting underneath. In excitement and curiosity the body is open. In anxiety and in distrust the body kind of curls up to protect the hurting wound - just as it would do with a physical wound. And exactly this is love - protecting, supporting, keeping me well. Just not very skillful at that.

Exactly. Distrust and trust are 2 sides of the same coin. Some people live very sheltered lives, others trick themselves into thinking the world is all sunshine and rainbows, and these people have a rude awakening waiting for them when reality doesn't match their expectations. Others (like yourself) have old traumas and possibly harsh upbringings that make them live in fear, worried because they sense danger at every corner, and are unable to enjoy things for what they are without negative judgements.

But no one knows anything. We only hold unreal expectations. I have no idea if things will go well for me. What can I do about that? What do I care? Maybe I'll get everything I want, maybe I'll lose everything I love. Actually, I'll die one day, so I guess I certainly will lose everything I love. What can I do about that? What do I care? Why trust and be disappointed? Why distrust and live in fear? None of that has any relevance to what's going on right now.

Of course, there's logic behind my words that is likely not very practically useful. But oh well, I enjoy writing them. I enjoy the breeze from the fan. My stomach hurts because I ate some spicy food. I could be worrying about taking a painful shit later, but that hasn't crossed my mind (until writing this sentence to illustrate). Will it be painful? Who knows? 😂 It's painful now, but that doesn't bother me. Still enjoying what's here. If it was much more painful, I may not be enjoying what's here. But I can't believe the idea that it could be more painful because it isn't, it's only what it is, and "more painful" is only an idea here within what is. Maybe in the past I could worry about it getting more painful and suffer. Another thought about some time that isn't right now. Still enjoying what's here.

Maybe this would be interesting for you to look at. When you're not enjoying yourself, are you caught up believing in an idea about some time/place/situation that isn't what's here now? Why do you believe that there could be anything apart from this? Where/what is the future? Where/what is the past? What isn't here, now?

[Jutylda]

I don't think that's what Buddhism is about (though I'm not a Buddhist). The whole world conspiring to support you thing is total bullshit (in the same way the opposite is total bullshit).

I suppose it was said in the same spirit as Vince's saying that everything can be taken as an opportunity.
And I also think that Buddhism is not about it, but what do I know :)

Some people live very sheltered lives

I do live a very sheltered life, and I had a great childhood, my parents and granparents are/were amazingly kind people. I have some hypotheses on how the distrust came about, but we can leave them for some other time, if a need shows up.

Distrust and trust are 2 sides of the same coin … Why trust and be disappointed? Why distrust and live in fear? None of that has any relevance to what's going on right now.

I like it, this middle way of "don't trust, but don't distrust either". Very Buddhist :) As suttas put it, "neither approving, nor dismissing". Maybe just taking into consideration?
But then, why enjoy? Aren't enjoyment and disenjoyment two sides of the same coin? Isn't there some middle way of "don't enjoy, but don't disenjoy either"?

My stomach hurts because I ate some spicy food. I could be worrying about taking a painful shit later, but that hasn't crossed my mind (until writing this sentence to illustrate). Will it be painful? Who knows?

That's a nice parallel:
The stomach ache is there to tell you: "Don't eat any more of that spicy shit".
The distrust is there to tell me: "Don't feed your mind any more of that bullshit".
If your stomach started hurting during the eating, would you go: "I don't care, I enjoy eating this spicy food, so I will stuff myself with it, no need to worry about the future"? Doesn't seem reasonable to me. My distrust reaction would be: "You trust this enjoyment too much, and it distorts your view".
Maybe my distrust is like an oversensitive stomach, overreacting to eating anything? Or maybe my mind is a bit feeble, like a body with the celiac disease, and I have to be extra careful about what I feed it? Who knows? I have a history of alcohol addiction and depression, that's enough to see that I can easily stumble.

BTW, it's also easy to see, how these two gave me the automatic reaction of distrust to "Don't worry, be happy" attitude. As a depressive, hearing "Enjoy yourself" was like hearing an order, followed by "What's wrong with me?". Alcohol was a self-medicating technique - "Oh, now I can enjoy myself, everything's fine". So now, even if you're not saying this, I pick up a hint of "You should enjoy yourself" - most probably only an echo in my own mind - and the defences go up: "That's just a social norm, you don't have to do it".

Maybe this would be interesting for you to look at. When you're not enjoying yourself, are you caught up believing in an idea about some time/place/situation that isn't what's here now?

I guess the most fundamental belief I have is "It would be better if there was nothing". No sensing, no fealing, no perceiving, no wanting, no thinking (no wonder The Heart Sutra was so appealing to me). Even if I'm not thinking it in words, it's somewhere there in the back of my head. Maybe I'm like a celiac imagining a world, where you don't have to eat at all :) By logic, it is a true statement, it would save this celiac a lot of trouble. It's an impossible fantasy, but it brings some relief, just imagining that.

Love
Jutka

[ty0]

But then, why enjoy? Aren't enjoyment and disenjoyment two sides of the same coin? Isn't there some middle way of "don't enjoy, but don't disenjoy either"?

Beliefs are required to trust and distrust. Beliefs are required to approve and dismiss. Beliefs are required to not enjoy, but not required to enjoy. Some enjoyments require beliefs (like praise), and these fall away. Anyway, there's no reason anyone SHOULD enjoy themselves, I'm just pointing to the fact that enjoyment happens by default (though this sounds a bit loaded). Some people say "natural state" which also sounds a bit loaded, but I'm not sure how to describe this accurately. Maybe I can say "Without prior conditioning, enjoyment happens"? Or "Without prior conditioning, suffering doesn't happen"? Again, I don't mean that enjoyment SHOULD happen or suffering SHOULDN'T happen.

I have some hypotheses on how the distrust came about, but we can leave them for some other time, if a need shows up.

I wanna hear your hypotheses if you wanna share them :)

If your stomach started hurting during the eating, would you go: "I don't care, I enjoy eating this spicy food, so I will stuff myself with it, no need to worry about the future"? Doesn't seem reasonable to me. My distrust reaction would be: "You trust this enjoyment too much, and it distorts your view".

Yeah, I'll have less chilli in the future so my stomach won't hurt as bad. But that's all it is. It doesn't mean I'm gonna fear spicy food. It doesn't take away from the enjoyment of spicy food. I think you're reading very deeply into it. It's as simple as look left and right before crossing the road.

Maybe my distrust is like an oversensitive stomach, overreacting to eating anything? Or maybe my mind is a bit feeble, like a body with the celiac disease, and I have to be extra careful about what I feed it? Who knows? I have a history of alcohol addiction and depression, that's enough to see that I can easily stumble.

This seems likely. It's the fear of what could go wrong that's blown out of proportion. That's where the being extra careful comes from. Not that you shouldn't be vigilant and just "don't worry, be happy" (that's BS), but the fact is that you're suffering from the fear of what could go wrong rather than anything actually going wrong. Maybe you hang onto this because you think it's worth it to live with this fear forever rather than risk the consequences. And I'm not trying to convince you that the consequences won't be that bad, because I don't know that.
The question is really: Are you sick and tired enough of the suffering that you're willing to let go of the fear and accept whatever comes with that letting go?
And if the answer is no, maybe this exploration isn't worth your time and effort yet

So now, even if you're not saying this, I pick up a hint of "You should enjoy yourself" - most probably only an echo in my own mind - and the defences go up: "That's just a social norm, you don't have to do it".

Yes, your echos hahah. You don't have to, why would anyone else care?

I guess the most fundamental belief I have is "It would be better if there was nothing". No sensing, no fealing, no perceiving, no wanting, no thinking (no wonder The Heart Sutra was so appealing to me). Even if I'm not thinking it in words, it's somewhere there in the back of my head. Maybe I'm like a celiac imagining a world, where you don't have to eat at all :) By logic, it is a true statement, it would save this celiac a lot of trouble. It's an impossible fantasy, but it brings some relief, just imagining that.

This was quite poetic and beautiful to read actually. Like a Shakespearean tragedy hahah.

[Jutylda]

Yeah, I'll have less chilli in the future so my stomach won't hurt as bad. But that's all it is. It doesn't mean I'm gonna fear spicy food.

The key point is that I would have more chilli in the future. It happens over and over again. I'm not drinking any more, but I have a plethora of other addictions - watching Youtube, getting curious about this and that and reading anything I can find on the subject, playing video games, or writing posts about "deep stuff". Anything but these boring tasks, like doing my job, cleaning the house, brushing my teeth, or making dinner.
I feel like the only thing that keeps me from tumbling all the way down is the fear of ending up like my father or worse - in total abnegation and not even aware of it.
No, that's a lie. Mainly it's my husband who keeps me from this by taking care of many of these tasks on a daily basis. I only have some bursts of energy from time to time. Exactly like my father.
That's my ugly reality.

It seems funny now, how I was dancing around it, inventing all kinds of ideas, anything rather than touch the problem.
But hey, now we have a touchdown. Feels good :)

I have some hypotheses on how the distrust came about, but we can leave them for some other time, if a need shows up.

I wanna hear your hypotheses if you wanna share them :)

1. It may be genetical - my father had episodes of severe paranoid depression, much worse than my depression ever looked like.
2. It could also come up just by observing my father. He is not comfortable with himself, although he tries to be. Or at least tries to appear that way. It's like he's always checking on how he appears - to others, and even when there are no others - to himself. In effect, very egocentric. There was always some anxiety about him, some general deceitfulness. Also, at least in my eyes, he is very bad at it. Like someone who tries to act cool, but has no idea, what acting cool really looks like, and ends up with a parody of "being cool". My father ends up with a parody of "being comfortable with himself". It's almost painful to look at.
3. My mother tells me - and I have no reason to think she's making it up - that when I was very little, I could sometimes read the thoughts of others. She remembers three particular cases, but there were probably more, and who knows, what I kept to myself. It seems that I could only read the verbal thoughts, and I've heard them as if they were spoken. This means I was probably hearing conflicting messages, at least from some people. And, of course, my father is the main suspect.

LOL, it's so trivial, I've become my dad, and now I hate myself for it. Although by "trivial" I don't mean "easy to resolve". Just that it was all the time in plain view, and so simple.

The question is really: Are you sick and tired enough of the suffering that you're willing to let go of the fear and accept whatever comes with that letting go?
And if the answer is no, maybe this exploration isn't worth your time and effort yet.

I understand. There has to be "I can't live like this any more" feeling.
I'm not there yet, but I feel like I'm getting closer. Just by looking straight at my ugly reality.
I'm also a bit topsy-turvy, the whole picture just went upside down and I have to reajust.

Love
Jutka