eyes wide shut? lets open them

[MerlinC]

wheres control in intention when you don't control thoughts?
thoughts cannot push and pull anything so where is control in relation to the body?
the answers to these questions cannot be found in thought

[sophie1]

wheres control in intention when you don't control thoughts?

There is an intention to act or command "do it now", followed by an effort and the action of the body. It all starts with the thought or image of the action and gets translated into real action. "I" don't control thoughts, but thoughts and intentions can control the body in case of deliberate movement.

thoughts cannot push and pull anything so where is control in relation to the body?

Thoughts don't push and pull, they give general direction to the action. Before you said to tap my fingers, I had no intention to do it. You transferred a thought about tapping to me. The thought created an image of the action of tapping and it happened when the body got a command "do it now".

the answers to these questions cannot be found in thought

I do look into my experience, in this case it is tapping experience.

[MerlinC]

Intention is not control no matter how you dice it, control is force and sense there isnt a person to do these things like move a body part, make a thought happen, choose to have thought be responded by the body. I find it hard to see control or power over something else such as the body so how can you?
how can you see that there is no me?
do thoughts see that there is no me?

[sophie1]

I explained in examples with salt and tapping. Can't you see it in them?
I see that I am not the thoughts, feelings or body. It feels more like empty space where everything happens.
No it's an awareness of no me, not really through thoughts

[MerlinC]

but thoughts and intentions can control the body in case of deliberate movement.

Thats all fine but you believe in control the power thoughts possess over the body and I'm asking for where is its control in direct experience, not something whipped up from thoughts which are just labels for actions. I want to know how thoughts control muscle fibers in your arm to grasp something.

[sophie1]

If I ask you to put your hand on your lap and start clenching your fist very slowly while stopping occasionally.
Firstly, the whole action originated in the thoughts because you got an idea from what I wrote to you and wouldn't do it otherwise. Secondly, because you are doing it very slowly you can see how your thinking controls the starting of the movement and stopping it. The mind chooses how long the stops and the movement will be.

[sophie1]

Actually I can see that there is no mind control over the movement and stopping the movement. However, the first point is still relevant. You wouldn't do this particular movement if you did not get this thought from me.

[MerlinC]

I agree but a thought can never know how to move muscle tissue so how could it move the body? sure the body moves how is thought capable of doing that?

[sophie1]

I don't know the mechanism of that, but it is obvious that the body follows the thoughts

[sophie1]

So what's solution

[sophie1]

Sorry, please disregard the previous message, it is a mistake.

[MerlinC]

do you know a thought before it happens?

[sophie1]

No

[sophie1]

If we don't control the thoughts, we don't control the body too

[MerlinC]

Do you need a (ME) here to conduct life?