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Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:48 am
by vinceschubert
I am not using a lot of mental energy
Ah, great. Yes, that mental energy = resistance = depletion. And it also prevents us from SEEing. It diverts our attention by keeping us locked in thought.
figuring this out.
It can't be figured out. Mind can't understand this. You will 'feel' it.
where I am stuck.
You're not stuck. A metaphor would be that you have been wading through thigh deep mud. Thick mud. And two posts ago - just after you returned from your break, the mud thinned and the depth dropped to knee level.
Tell me about the sense of me-ness ? (as it is now)
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:48 am
by Noobstorm
Tell me about the sense of me-ness ? (as it is now)
When I say "I" or "me" and when others say "you" I see that it always seems to be referring to this human being. This being is all that is found with empirical observation as my self. My feelings of control are very strong and haven't been affected by these questions. I don't understand how things can be done autonomously, it just doesn't make any sense no matter what logic is given to me.
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:58 am
by vinceschubert
it just doesn't make any sense no matter what logic is given to me.
It can't be figured out. Mind can't understand this. You will 'feel' it.
If it can't be figured out, that is, arrived at logically. If mind can't understand it, then what you say is true. And it
is true.
How then can you experience it ?
If it could be arrived at logically, wouldn't there be a lot more liberated people. It could be taught at school.
If it can't be captured by mind, then what is the purpose of these questions ? (write your first thoughts)
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:43 pm
by Noobstorm
If it can't be captured by mind, then what is the purpose of these questions ? (write your first thoughts)
The questions are supposed to make someone look introspectively.
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:53 pm
by vinceschubert
The questions are supposed to make someone look introspectively.
Exactly, and that doesn't mean look then think about..
It means observe, witness and be aware that any opinion about, any judgement about what is observed is a diversion away from that observation.
When you observe, do you see an I ?
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:55 pm
by Noobstorm
When you observe, do you see an I ?
No, without thinking about what is observed/observing.
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:05 pm
by vinceschubert
Ali, can you see the story ABOUT a you ?
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:10 pm
by Noobstorm
Ali, can you see the story ABOUT a you ?
Yes, there are factual stories about this human being.
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:21 pm
by vinceschubert
Yes, there are factual stories about this human being.
The key words being "stories about".
They exist mostly as memories, right ? and maybe some imaginations about the future ?
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:43 pm
by Noobstorm
The key words being "stories about".
They exist mostly as memories, right ? and maybe some imaginations about the future ?
Yes the past is frequently brought up, and the future is dreamed about too. There is also a story of(what seems to be) the present moment.
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:32 am
by vinceschubert
There is also a story of(what seems to be) the present moment.
Ah, good one Ali.
Examine this (by observation) and tell me if that story comes a split second AFTER the actual experiencing ?
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:40 am
by Noobstorm
There is also a story of(what seems to be) the present moment.
Ah, good one Ali.
Examine this (by observation) and tell me if that story comes a split second AFTER the actual experiencing ?
It's difficult to observe this, but sometimes that may be the case. Sometimes it appears the thought story and life happen simultaneously.
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:06 am
by vinceschubert
Sometimes it appears the thought story and life happen simultaneously.
Can you see two things happening at the same time ? A story about life and life itself.
Is not life itself, experiencing ?
Is not story about life, thoughts ?
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:13 pm
by Noobstorm
Sometimes it appears the thought story and life happen simultaneously.
Can you see two things happening at the same time ? A story about life and life itself.
Is not life itself, experiencing ?
Is not story about life, thoughts ?
Yes I can see this, there is life and thoughts about life.
Re: I Need Guidance
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:10 am
by vinceschubert
Yes I can see this, there is life and thoughts about life.
Now, can you see that the thoughts about life (the thoughts not their content) are also part of life ?
And can you also see that the
reactions to the content of those thoughts is also life ?
Now, can you see that the contents of those thought about life, is not part of life but that they affect life? They distort it. The influence it according to their flavor.