Zen Of Chaos-this is your thread

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hey,

Yep, don't worry. A few more results. Sorted. (crosses fingers).

The tears. Sounds to me like somewhere within there's already a deep knowing about this, the illusion of "I", and there's a waiting. Not waiting for no reason, but purposeful waiting. Waiting for the time to come and welcome this seeing.

In which case, the fear is probably a message saying, "Not yet, don't push it, let it come."

This may be bollocks, but just sharing the feeling from your words.

Fear is the name of our reaction to the perceived unknown. Sometimes, a good approach is to dip your toe in the water (the unknown) and during the experience, it becomes known. Then, another toe. More experience becoming known. Then a foot. :) And so on. Stopping when it feels good to. Then going back to the water again for another dip.

So, that moment in the car when the tears came, that was dipping your toe. Next time, it'll be easier as the terrain becomes known. It is sometimes described as feeling you way in the dark. :)

Was glad to hear you're keeping it light. This is the key. There's nothing heavy or serious about this at all. We're all explorers of awareness. That's all.

Even a belief. If you take the label "belief" and look under the bonnet to see what it's made of, how it's activated and maintained, and apparently believed by a someone, you'll see the scaffolding of that particular mechanism too.

Check it out with a belief. You may find it fuzzy. Notice what happens when you leave calling it a belief to one side. What becomes of the fuzziness when it has no name?

Speak soon,
John

[ZenOfchaos]

Think I put a whole leg in the water today John!

I started meditating this week again, trying to make an effort. Before I took the stance that meditating wasn't neccesary. It could be taken or left. but i think one problem with the looking is the habitual mind interference that takes away attention, that analyses and judges. Maybe that isn't such a problem for some but it is for this brain. Relaxing/meditating is a way to train the mind to focus, to attend, to reduce the noise. possibly for a long time this mind has used inattentiveness, distraction, and avoidance as a means of coping and dealing with fear or life or 'the now'.

Recently when trying to be mindful i have found that it brings up fear. perhaps the mind is doing what it can to avoid the truth or maybe its becoming a habitual thing to think "mindfulness isn't working, its creating fear, the now sucks, come back to thought!".

In any case i started meditating again in a more formal way this week. This morning it was feeling a little uncomfortable but i stuck with it. This time i really focused on letting the "me" dissolve out of the centre. Got into the shower after and still had that 'no me at the centre/mindful" approach. This is direct looking! It's paying attention to what is happening in the moment without a centre. I've looked a hundered times and could quite adamantly say I was doing it from a no self perspective but this was subtly different. subtly and on this occassion significantly.

It brought up a lot of fear. Fear that is a bit different from the habitual anxiety that has come up before. I've had fear come up during this process several times but this time it seemed a little different. I believe this time there was a strong fear to non-existence and losing [the illusion] of control.

I had to go to work which was difficult for the first half of the day. Even now I still feel a little on edge and uneasy. I tried not to take it so heavy. There is definately fear there and some underlying beliefs. Some gentle encouragement may be needed!

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hey,

Nice work.

I'd agree, that just sitting and settling into the experience of being here (sometimes known as meditation) is a wonderful way to reduce the noise and just settle and see more clearly.

The fear is a natural effect of seeing the world in a new, unknowing kinda way with no-self at the centre.

I'd suggest continuing with the approach of keeping it light, treating it as nothing special whilst allowing the full experience of this seeing.

You're handling the fear really well - which is to carry on regardless and act normal. LOL :) Eventually, there'll come a point where fear goes, "Oh shit, it's not working, may as well stop." - and it fades away.

Whilst the experience of seeing can come and go - that's ok - as the KNOWLEDGE of seeing remains.

So, cool, should you feel the urge, return to the meditation to explore the seeing further, but take it gentle and in the spirit of exploration of self.

Let me know as this part of the journey unfolds.

With warm wishes,
John

[ZenOfchaos]

I'll keep you up-to-date. Thanks for continuing to keep up with the thread when I post.

Sometimes its a little, rather more than a little, scary facing the fear alone. Although it can't really be avoided and it has to be seen through like everything else.

[s-p-a-c-e]

I'll keep you up-to-date. Thanks for continuing to keep up with the thread when I post.

Sometimes its a little, rather more than a little, scary facing the fear alone. Although it can't really be avoided and it has to be seen through like everything else.

It's good to walk along together sometimes. :)

Speak soon,
John

[ZenOfchaos]

I'm a bit lost in this whole game.

I understand things at a conceptual and intellectual level.

I've even experienced things on an experiential level (albeit in isolation, ie seeing that thoughts happen by themselves, seeing that actions happen by themselves, et cetera)

Yet at this point I feel the most unconscious/asleep I have ever felt in the last 13 months.

Bottom line is that I don't have a clue what to do anymore or which direction to go.

Is this part of the process in some wierd way? Is there a reboot button hidden somewhere in reality?!

Sorry for being negative but it's agonising to see how a lie sucks you back into more lies.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi,

I'm a bit lost in this whole game.

I understand things at a conceptual and intellectual level.

I've even experienced things on an experiential level (albeit in isolation, ie seeing that thoughts happen by themselves, seeing that actions happen by themselves, et cetera)

Yet at this point I feel the most unconscious/asleep I have ever felt in the last 13 months.

Bottom line is that I don't have a clue what to do anymore or which direction to go.

Is this part of the process in some wierd way? Is there a reboot button hidden somewhere in reality?!

Sorry for being negative but it's agonising to see how a lie sucks you back into more lies.

It's always part of the process. There's nothing really outside of it.

Maybe give yourself a break for a week. Damn, no footie to watch. ;) But seriously, you've learned so much, that it's good sometimes to pause and let it all settle.

With best wishes,
John

[ZenOfchaos]

Hi,

It's always part of the process. There's nothing really outside of it.

Maybe give yourself a break for a week. Damn, no footie to watch. ;) But seriously, you've learned so much, that it's good sometimes to pause and let it all settle.

With best wishes,
John

Doesn't always feel like part of the process. Would be nice if the universe threw me a bone once in a while.

Champions league tomorrow

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi,

Hi,

It's always part of the process. There's nothing really outside of it.

Maybe give yourself a break for a week. Damn, no footie to watch. ;) But seriously, you've learned so much, that it's good sometimes to pause and let it all settle.

With best wishes,
John

Doesn't always feel like part of the process. Would be nice if the universe threw me a bone once in a while.

Champions league tomorrow

If you want something to play with during this pause, play with this:

You'll have a sense of being you. This is the sense of "me", "I".

When you notice that sense, play with the notion that the sense itself is un-owned. No-one owns the sense of you. It's not yours, mine, or anyone else's. It just is.

With best wishes,
John

[ZenOfchaos]

Hi john.

Long time no speak! Not really sure how to describe where I am and what's been happening but will try. I've been going at it myself but also been afraid to really look deeply. a mix of apathy and fear. the apathy has left for the most part, and my good old pal fear has been making himself at home.

Well things have been pretty tough over the last several months. I think I did see through the illusion a long long time ago, before I came here. Or at least had an awakening if that is any different. But I am also as equally sure that I became re-identified. So I am never too sure if this is still the same process here at LU. Although I think inquiry would help see through some or all of the illusory identities the mind still believes in.

Recently there has been a LOT of emotion arising that has left me totally exhausted. I feel a bit of a mess. It's never easy to be sure if this is all apart of the awakening process or if I haven't even begun yet! It would be helpful to hear about others' paths unfolding, and to avoid some of the pitfalls that can make transition easier.

If I am honest with myself I still believe i have some control and there is a lot of fear based around this one because it feels like I am losing it! It also feels like I am the experiencer (and the seeker) which feeds into the former fear of losing control because I have the belief that I lose control then I can't control the experience and psychological harm will fall on me.

I know I sound pretty screwed up and I probably am. This whole process has not been easy. Yet I got to the position i'm in now because of NOT facing fears and problems, because of avoiding reality and emotions and experiences. I came back (although I never really went away. I followed some threads and read some blogs) because maybe a few pointers and drawing on others experience might help.

I've thought long and hard over what I really want and there is no doubt that I want the ending of fear. Should that happen, I have seen enough and know inside that I wouldn't want that to be the end. The truth of reality and god/consciousness will always be the true intention. Why have I come back now? I have thought about it many times. One is because of what I just said, another is because there are truths that can't be hidden and sweeping them under the carpet won't do. It's also a place of support. Something profound had taken place. I started to wake up to reality, that can be a bit mind blowing to the mind, so it would be nice to be able to converse with people who have been or are going through something similar. I was also embarrased to come back having 'failed' and not wanting to come across as 'that crazy guy'.

Is freedom even real? I don't know. Is it achievable? I don't know. But I do know orbiting around the gate is fearful and it's somewhere I don't want to be. SO I either walk away altogether or crash land right in the middle of the gatecrashing party.

I don't know if you are still around or are still up for guiding a lost soul. I'm not here to make all my problems go away. I'm not going to lie. This has been hard for me. And I sometimes feel like I'm going crazy. But I'm here, despite the warning lights, and if this is life playing itself out then I got to hold on to that thread of trust and realise this is where life wants me to be. So if you are up for it then I would like to be guided.

Again, if I am honest I would love a guide who has experience with fear (general and in this process). If that is you great, if not then could you ask someone who does? We might be all one but this is still an individual manifestation with its quirks and idiosynchronies. You need the right key for the right door right? So it would be helpful for this process to have someone that can bring their understanding or personal experience to guiding this me. I know I am asking a lot but I need help. If there isn't a key maybe we can just boot the door down.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hey ZOC!

Really nice to hear from you and thank you for the update. Before we get into the guiding thing, do you read much? Have you ever read The Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula Le Guin.

It's a wonderful book about handling fear in the form of a children's fable.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wizard-Earthsea ... 0140304770

If you're not into reading, just say, and we'll continue the thread.

With best wishes,
John

[ZenOfchaos]

I don't read much. I have a very short attention span! sometimes a book will grab me, in which case I'll get into it. I have a tendency to not finish books too. Losing interest has been a consistent problem over the years - books, jobs, girlfriends! Nevertheless, I ordered the book (was only £2.80 on ebay) and will give it a read.

[ZenOfchaos]

Do you want to wait until I read the book? Or will we continue?

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi ZOC,

Do you want to wait until I read the book? Or will we continue?

Ok, let's continue. First of all, for now, can we set aside the whole thing about seeing no-self etc. It's more of a side-effect anyway of looking cleanly.

As fear is presenting itself, suggest we start there.

Ok with you?

With best wishes,
John

[ZenOfchaos]

Yes sounds good John